Free throws and other improvements

[DWB]

I found it interesting that we only missed 3 FT in the Princeton game. 2 by Green (1 of 3 on a 3 pt shooting foul) and 1 by TJD. Both of these guys are some, if not the, best FT shooters on the team this year. We're shooting in excess of 75% as a team so far this year. That's one helluva improvement over last year, and I think the guys deserve a big "at-a-boy" for their work to improve this aspect of the game.

I also want to give kudo's to Justin Smith. I never thought he would make the jump in improvement this year that he has. He's running the floor really well, plays good defense, and is playing within his skill levels. Really proud of him.

Devonte so far, has put "bad Devonte" back in the toy-box, and appears that he's out grown it. I re-watched the game a couple of times in the past few days, and he had at least 4 assists that I saw that the bigs didn't finish. That would almost give him a double double with points and assists.

I'm ready to give Brunk a Caterpillar hat. The guy was a big piece of heavy equipment in the Princeton game. If he plays like that and continues to improve, he'll definitely be a force to contend with for opponents.

If we continue to play team ball, I think this team can go a long way and methodically win a lot of games, and be very competitive in all of them. Archie has already demonstrated his willingness to pull a player for lazy, or lack of attention, to perform on the game plan. Granted, we haven't played a tough schedule yet, but if we continue to execute, good play translates to any competition.

Go Hoosiers!

 

 

[FKIM01]

I remember several posters here saying the players needed more work on free throws. Other posters opined that it was either mental or calling more practice simplistic and saying it was probably already being done.

Archie says they really worked on free throws over the summer and voila! Much, much better free throw shooting. The only question I have is why it took as long as it did to hone in on an obvious problem. Only thing I can guess is that they were focused on even bigger issues.

When the games get tighter, this extra work is going to pay huge dividends. 

[JugRox]

11 minutes ago, DWB said:

I found it interesting that we only missed 3 FT in the Princeton game. 2 by Green (1 of 3 on a 3 pt shooting foul) and 1 by TJD. Both of these guys are some, if not the, best FT shooters on the team this year. We're shooting in excess of 75% as a team so far this year. That's one helluva improvement over last year, and I think the guys deserve a big "at-a-boy" for their work to improve this aspect of the game.

I also want to give kudo's to Justin Smith. I never thought he would make the jump in improvement this year that he has. He's running the floor really well, plays good defense, and is playing within his skill levels. Really proud of him.

Devonte so far, has put "bad Devonte" back in the toy-box, and appears that he's out grown it. I re-watched the game a couple of times in the past few days, and he had at least 4 assists that I saw that the bigs didn't finish. That would almost give him a double double with points and assists.

I'm ready to give Brunk a Caterpillar hat. The guy was a big piece of heavy equipment in the Princeton game. If he plays like that and continues to improve, he'll definitely be a force to contend with for opponents.

If we continue to play team ball, I think this team can go a long way and methodically win a lot of games, and be very competitive in all of them. Archie has already demonstrated his willingness to pull a player for lazy, or lack of attention, to perform on the game plan. Granted, we haven't played a tough schedule yet, but if we continue to execute, good play translates to any competition.

Go Hoosiers!

 

 

A big part of improving FT shooting has been the loss of Morgan. He did some amazing things here at IU, but FT shooting was NOT one of them.

[Zuckerkorn]

IMO, free throw shooting is a skill that pretty much anyone that works on it can become proficient at.  Maybe not 85% or better, but certainly better than what we saw last season.  I've come to the conclusion that form isn't even that big of a factor, but repetition is.  Heck, I've seen H.S. girls teams that shot 80% as a team and some of the players were so young and small that they had to jump to get the ball to the rim.

My guess is players today don't really put as much emphasis on FT shooting.  More time than ever is spent on strength and conditioning, footwork, and FG shooting.

[rico]

41 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

IMO, free throw shooting is a skill that pretty much anyone that works on it can become proficient at.  Maybe not 85% or better, but certainly better than what we saw last season.  I've come to the conclusion that form isn't even that big of a factor, but repetition is.  Heck, I've seen H.S. girls teams that shot 80% as a team and some of the players were so young and small that they had to jump to get the ball to the rim.

My guess is players today don't really put as much emphasis on FT shooting.  More time than ever is spent on strength and conditioning, footwork, and FG shooting.

Simulating a game situation is very difficult to do.  Fatigue, crowd noise, and how the game is going all play factors.  Can't get that done in practice shooting FTs.

[Zuckerkorn]

16 minutes ago, rico said:

Simulating a game situation is very difficult to do.  Fatigue, crowd noise, and how the game is going all play factors.  Can't get that done in practice shooting FTs.

So is it your contention that FT is just a natural ability?  Those 15-17 year old girls playing for a state championship face those same factors and generally shoot better from the line.

[milehiiu]

20 steps: How that guy hit 409 free throws in a row

[dbmhoosier]

2 hours ago, JugRox said:

A big part of improving FT shooting has been the loss of Morgan. He did some amazing things here at IU, but FT shooting was NOT one of them.

JS 36 for 70?  Ouch.  That's Shaq territory.

[IUFLA]

I've talked to a number of great FT shooters, some who played D1 college basketball, and they all say the same thing (summerized)

Confidence will make you an adequate free throw shooter

Add form and it will make you a good free throw shooter

Add repetition and it will make you a great free throw shooter

[Zuckerkorn]

22 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I've talked to a number of great FT shooters, some who played D1 college basketball, and they all say the same thing (summerized)

Confidence will make you an adequate free throw shooter

Add form and it will make you a good free throw shooter

Add repetition and it will make you a great free throw shooter

It's funny.  There's been players with really good form that weren't good from the stripe and others with really weird form that were pretty good.  Overall, I think it is almost an individual preference but most outstanding shooters DO have good form.

I was trying to remember the particulars about Wilt Chamberlain improving his FT shooting.  He was awful from the line until he changed to shooting underhanded like Rick Barry (we always called it Granny Grunt shots, lol).  He improved quite a bit (not great, but much better) only to then revert to overhand and awful shooting.

Fun video about him (for really young readers, the guy was incredibly dominant and once scored 100 points in a game): The curious case of Wilt Chamberlain's Free Throws.

[Hoosierhoopster]

It’s not as simple as form and repitition. It can be for many, but you have guys like Shaq who have really big hands, and, well, try shooting free throws with little kid’s ball and see how you do. It is often harder for bigs, not always but often. 

Besides that it’s mostly mental for most players. That ice at the line can’t really be taught. The repeated practice helps with confidence and form but ultimately it’s up to the player. Guys like a Reggie or Ray Allen kill it at the line because of both practice and killer confidence, many can’t find the latter. 

Mall that said it’s great to see the team’s improvement, that wins games 

[IUFLA]

Wow. I was looking at the NBA all time FT % leaders and Yao Ming was at 83%. That's pretty impressive for a big.

And I agree it's tougher for a big, but, as Hoosierhoopster said, not impossible.

[Steubenhoosier]

Socks, shorts, 1,2,3..swish

[Zlinedavid]

17 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It’s not as simple as form and repitition. It can be for many, but you have guys like Shaq who have really big hands, and, well, try shooting free throws with little kid’s ball and see how you do. It is often harder for bigs, not always but often. 

Besides that it’s mostly mental for most players. That ice at the line can’t really be taught. The repeated practice helps with confidence and form but ultimately it’s up to the player. Guys like a Reggie or Ray Allen kill it at the line because of both practice and killer confidence, many can’t find the latter. 

Mall that said it’s great to see the team’s improvement, that wins games 

Shaq also had a wrist injury when he was young that limited the flexibility in that hand, if memory serves.  Broke and didn't heal properly, and he couldn't flex it back into the typical position to get the right roll-through, hence why it always looked like he was shot-putting the ball up there. 

[rico]

3 hours ago, Zuckerkorn said:

So is it your contention that FT is just a natural ability?  Those 15-17 year old girls playing for a state championship face those same factors and generally shoot better from the line.

What I AM saying is that game situations are just different than practice.  Everything changes.  

[BADGERVOL]

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

I've talked to a number of great FT shooters, some who played D1 college basketball, and they all say the same thing (summerized)

Confidence will make you an adequate free throw shooter

Add form and it will make you a good free throw shooter

Add repetition and it will make you a great free throw shooter

I am in the camp that says you can improve a TON through practice.

however using tips and ideas from people who are and have been great FT shooters their whole lives has to be taken with a grain of salt. It’s like people with high metabolisms talking about how to lose weight. 

No excuse for shaq being AS bad as he was but I had someone explain that it’s like shooting FT’s with a mini ball except you have a smaller rim in proportion to the mini ball. Go out and try it, it isn’t easy. When your hands are THAT much bigger it does make it at least a little trickier.

but again everyone can get better and I haven’t heard good excuses for sub 60% besides they don’t care and don’t work at it.

[Zuckerkorn]

The big man discussion is interesting.  That subject was addressed in the video I linked by Tommy Heinsohn.  It's my perception that overall FT shooting is not as good as it was decades ago and that may not be true.  But if the theory Heinsohn mentions about Wilt has merit, that would seem to apply to Shaq and a lot of current players seeing how strength training is much more intense than in the "olden days". (kind of plays into the comment about HS girls being proficient from the line).

[Zuckerkorn]

32 minutes ago, rico said:

What I AM saying is that game situations are just different than practice.  Everything changes.  

I'd agree with that.  I presume that teams shhot FT drills at varios periods in practice to simulate fatigue.  Also, there's no doubt that there is amental pressure during games that doesn't happen during practice. 

One thing I've seen on occasion is that sometimes players get distracted by coaches giving instructions from the sideline and teammates discussing blockouts or other strategy.  That's where the focus of a player like Alford is impressive.

[Hoosierhoopster]

11 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

The big man discussion is interesting.  That subject was addressed in the video I linked by Tommy Heinsohn.  It's my perception that overall FT shooting is not as good as it was decades ago and that may not be true.  But if the theory Heinsohn mentions about Wilt has merit, that would seem to apply to Shaq and a lot of current players seeing how strength training is much more intense than in the "olden days". (kind of plays into the comment about HS girls being proficient from the line).

Two absolutes:

1) underhanded free-throw shooting (the granny way) is more accurate/efficient;

2) no way in hell you'll get most guys to buy into it (there was that kid from Fla recently who shot underhanded), it's just plain embarrassing

[Zuckerkorn]

5 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Two absolutes:

1) underhanded free-throw shooting (the granny way) is more accurate/efficient;

2) no way in hell you'll get most guys to buy into it (there was that kid from Fla recently who shot underhanded), it's just plain embarrassing

A lot of truth to this.  Wilt stopped shooting underhand out of "embarassment". Gotta give it up for Rick Barry and not GAF and being one of the best of all time.

I wouldn't mind repealing the prohibition on dunking from the FT line.  That'd be pretty cool.

[Reacher]

2 hours ago, Zuckerkorn said:

The big man discussion is interesting.  That subject was addressed in the video I linked by Tommy Heinsohn.  It's my perception that overall FT shooting is not as good as it was decades ago and that may not be true.  But if the theory Heinsohn mentions about Wilt has merit, that would seem to apply to Shaq and a lot of current players seeing how strength training is much more intense than in the "olden days". (kind of plays into the comment about HS girls being proficient from the line).

Bigs are also sooting at a different angle. Anyone know if that makes an impact

[IUFLA]

2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Two absolutes:

1) underhanded free-throw shooting (the granny way) is more accurate/efficient

Two pieces of evidence dispute this...

1) the top six all time in the NBA (Rick Barry is 7th) all employ the conventional free throw style.

2) Ollie of Hickory High only made 2 of 4 

[Zlinedavid]

44 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Bigs are also sooting at a different angle. Anyone know if that makes an impact

It can, not sure if it does. The path of the ball is more or less a parabolic arc. The shooter has to get the ball moving at the right velocity and along the right path in order to set the vertex at the correct spot and allow gravity to pull the ball through.

A shooter that is 5'10" is at a lower spot on the rise of the arc vs a shooter that is 7'3".The shorter shooter's shot has further to travel, so their aim/trajectory is more critical, but they have some leeway when it comes to velocity. The taller shooter has less distance to cover, but their touch/velocity has to be very precise.

This is why theoretically, the granny shot is more accurate. It lowers the release point, and two hands allow for more precise control.

Combine that with the fact that in general, bigger humans have bigger hands with more limited range of motion. Aiming a catapult vs aiming a slingshot.

 

[Zuckerkorn]

3 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

It can, not sure if it does. The path of the ball is more or less a parabolic arc. The shooter has to get the ball moving at the right velocity and along the right path in order to set the vertex at the correct spot and allow gravity to pull the ball through.

A shooter that is 5'10" is at a lower spot on the rise of the arc vs a shooter that is 7'3".The shorter shooter's shot has further to travel, so their aim/trajectory is more critical, but they have some leeway when it comes to velocity. The taller shooter has less distance to cover, but their touch/velocity has to be very precise.

This is why theoretically, the granny shot is more accurate. It lowers the release point, and two hands allow for more precise control.

Combine that with the fact that in general, bigger humans have bigger hands with more limited range of motion. Aiming a catapult vs aiming a slingshot.

 

Way back in the mid 70's there was a cover article about the geometry of the shot - I can picture it, but can't remember the player they used as the model for the ideal shot.  On a tangent, there is also some interesting science about banked in shots (intentional, that is).

Edit: it might have been Fly Williams with the perfect shot (?)

[Hoosierhoopster]

The bank shot - extremely efficient - is a lost art - Duncan was lethal with it, Kobe and Wade used it a bit, i’d Love to see guys using it again