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Deron Davis- The Ghost

hoosier10

By hoosier10
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hoosier10

hoosier10

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2 minutes ago, CampHoosier said:

Wow. Wow. Archie didn't play him. Can't do much if you aren't in the game. He carried us against Duke and many other games. This thread is garbage

Seriously? You think it's good he isn't getting minutes against Fort Wayne.  This thread is realistic not garbage.

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CampHoosier

CampHoosier

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He's the best player on the team besides Juwan and has played good basketball this season with his best game coming against the #1 team in the nation. If this is how you vent your frustrations, go ahead. Archie didn't play him because of the defensive match-ups which was idiotic. Can't score if you aren't in the game. May want to target the players who actually have done nothing for us like Newkirk or Green or Johnson. But yeah, let's pile on De'Ron Davis instead. This fan base never ceases to amaze me. 

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rico

rico

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2 minutes ago, CampHoosier said:

He's the best player on the team besides Juwan and has played good basketball this season with his best game coming against the #1 team in the nation. If this is how you vent your frustrations, go ahead. Archie didn't play him because of the defensive match-ups which was idiotic. Can't score if you aren't in the game. May want to target the players who actually have done nothing for us like Newkirk or Green or Johnson. But yeah, let's pile on De'Ron Davis instead. This fan base never ceases to amaze me. 

What did he do in the Notre Dame game?

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IU Scott

IU Scott

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53 minutes ago, hoosier10 said:

What the hell has happened to him?  He's bringing absolutely nothing to this team.  Is he lazy or just not good?  Why can't he dominate teams like Fort Wayne?

To me he makes himself to small going to the basket. He needs to remember he is 6'10 and go up strong to the basket.  He seems to keep the ball low and double pump before shooting.

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Hoosierhoopster

Hoosierhoopster

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It's unfortunate that some feel the need to lash out at any particular player, after a bad loss.

This was a poorly coached game. This was a game in which a number of players made bad decisions in the second half and didn't appear to give 100% effort (which is completely subjective, anyway). 

This was a game in which Davis only played 20 minutes -- he had 7 boards to go with 7 points, a block, a steal and just one foul. 

He is not a 3-point defender. The team gave up 56 second half points and a barrage of three pointers. Lashing out at Davis here is meaningless.

He did not do anything against ND, but he did play very well against Duke and in other games. He's a young soph, it's early, he has work to do, but this kind of lashing out against a soph big, and who has shown a lot of promise, is really counter-productive and unnecessary. 

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hoosier10

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3 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It's unfortunate that some feel the need to lash out at any particular player, after a bad loss.

It's more unfortunate that some bury their heads in the sand.  We're fans on a freaking message board.  We can be critical after losing by 20 at home to Ft Wayne

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rico

rico

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8 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It's unfortunate that some feel the need to lash out at any particular player, after a bad loss.

 

Really?  I see a lot of players getting lashed out after last night's performance.  So a member just happens to put up a thread about one particular player.

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Bushmage

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Imo, it becomes unfair when you attack the person. No one is doing that because there is plenty to complain about on the court. DeRon isnt doing enough, his FT shooting is horrendous and he draws too many dumb fouls and disappears on offense for too long. His offensive struggles could lend themselves more to how badly our team plays together, but the other stuff is on him. To not call that out would be ignoring one of the multiple flaws sandbagging this season currently.

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ephul

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I'm as big of a De'Ron fan as anyone, but his off ball defense has been terrible, and it led to many open threes for Ft. Wayne. When De'Ron was defending the pick and roll, he was overhelping, forcing the weak side defender to come down to the post to guard his man, until De'Ron recovered. This left 3 point shooters wide open in the wing.

We are simply better defensively with De'Ron OFF the floor right now.

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Hoosierhoopster

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This is where I am, fwiw, quoting from the post-game thread

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  6 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Those who know me know that I Iive in Phoenix.  I work with some UA fans and asked them about the pack line defense.

HF: "So, what do you think about the pack line defense?"

Co-worker: "Not sure.  It seems to be hit and miss"

HF: "Give up a lot of threes?"

CW: "Oh, crap, yeah that's definitely the achilles heel."

HF: "Does it seem to only work when you have 3/4 year players?"

CW: "Oh, man, that totally seems to be the case..."

HF: "Any upside?"

CW: "When it looks good, it's amazing."

B- level armchair analysis from a pseudo basketball fan.  Godspeed, gents.

In all seriousness, while people lash out at players after a loss like this, looking at the plays and sets we're running is worth it. Where we are on the pack line D is something to watch going forward. We've lost two 20-plus games already to unranked opponents, same guys who played last year, minus 3 players in the NBA. 

To what extent are these awful blow-out losses attributable to the pack line D, to our players still learning the pack line D, to not having the right players / length to run pack line D, etc.? 

We're losing these games because of crazy three-point shooting. That's the common denominator. This is why I keep questioning the need to lash out at particular players. It's just not as simple as saying Davis, or Rob, or anyone else is "lazy" etc. We're getting blitzed by threes, not by interior D, etc. The question is why? And to me that's still an open question.

[ -- I'm not saying Davis has been playing fantastic ball, I'm saying 1) he's not the reason we're losing, 2) focusing on individual players, and especially interior players, when we're getting run out of the gym on three-point shooting really isn't on point, 3) Davis has had some strong games, he's a young soph still learning to adjust to timing / positional play as a big getting much more focus early in his soph season, and 4) the common denominator is not Davis or Rob, or any other one player, it's the team's inability to defend the arc and including in the pack line D. I'm interested to see what CAM and the team do to adjust to that, or if they fail to do so.

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Guest

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How much focus was placed last year on learning interior defense?

Even if there was significant emphasis on defense (I'm skeptical) how much did Deron's lack of conditioning affect his ability to fully learn what was taught?

Even though Deron came into this season reportedly in the best shape of his life, does that translate into being in shape to play full time minutes in this brand of basketball?

Last year, Deron was the guy who came in to spell Bryant for a few minutes at a time. Last year, there was much less (maybe no) focus on playing inside out. Fighting and establishing position on the post, then holding off the defender is physically draining. Is Deron ready for that level of inside play? Is it affecting his ability to play defense?

Not trying to provide easy excuses, but as HH said, he is still learning. He also is coming off a stretch of two games in 3 days. 

It has long been accepted that the development of bigs is a longer process than guards/wings. IMO some criticism is fair, but I also think that Deron is just getting started. For the first time I believe he is getting the proper tutelage in becoming an effective post player. 

Gotta give the kid, and the process a chance.

 

 

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Indykev

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9 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

This is where I am, fwiw, quoting from the post-game thread

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  6 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Those who know me know that I Iive in Phoenix.  I work with some UA fans and asked them about the pack line defense.

HF: "So, what do you think about the pack line defense?"

Co-worker: "Not sure.  It seems to be hit and miss"

HF: "Give up a lot of threes?"

CW: "Oh, crap, yeah that's definitely the achilles heel."

HF: "Does it seem to only work when you have 3/4 year players?"

CW: "Oh, man, that totally seems to be the case..."

HF: "Any upside?"

CW: "When it looks good, it's amazing."

B- level armchair analysis from a pseudo basketball fan.  Godspeed, gents.

In all seriousness, while people lash out at players after a loss like this, looking at the plays and sets we're running is worth it. Where we are on the pack line D is something to watch going forward. We've lost two 20-plus games already to unranked opponents, same guys who played last year, minus 3 players in the NBA. 

To what extent are these awful blow-out losses attributable to the pack line D, to our players still learning the pack line D, to not having the right players / length to run pack line D, etc.? 

We're losing these games because of crazy three-point shooting. That's the common denominator. This is why I keep questioning the need to lash out at particular players. It's just not as simple as saying Davis, or Rob, or anyone else is "lazy" etc. We're getting blitzed by threes, not by interior D, etc. The question is why? And to me that's still an open question.

No one is blaming just Davis for the loss. I blame everyone on that bench. Watch the game, watch Davis play, watch no one but him when he is in. He is lazy pretty simple to see. Archie is putting his system in for the future, be damned if the seniors on this team are good enough to play it or not. Its about getting Soph's and Freshman to learn it and get great at it. This year is a throw away. Next year will be better, if we have someone to shoot. two years from now we do damage.

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Hoosierhoopster

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14 minutes ago, Indykev said:

No one is blaming just Davis for the loss. I blame everyone on that bench. Watch the game, watch Davis play, watch no one but him when he is in. He is lazy pretty simple to see. Archie is putting his system in for the future, be damned if the seniors on this team are good enough to play it or not. Its about getting Soph's and Freshman to learn it and get great at it. This year is a throw away. Next year will be better, if we have someone to shoot. two years from now we do damage.

I don't know, I see a lot of blame game stuff and the focus on Davis, particularly in this game, is way off. What the heck was he supposed to do in this game?? We let them score 56 in the second half, with a barrage of three pointers, the pac line D was a total failure. I don't buy into the Davis is lazy thing. I buy into the team either hasn't learned how to defend the arc in the pack line D, or otherwise, or the staff is failing to get them to implement it, or both. This loss had little to do with Davis, and he's shown real flashes. He's a soph big learning a new system, learning positional play and timing, and learning how to be more of an emphasis player after Bryant's departure. 

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rico

rico

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1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't know, I see a lot of blame game stuff and the focus on Davis, particularly in this game, is way off. What the heck was he supposed to do in this game?? We let them score 56 in the second half, with a barrage of three pointers, the pac line D was a total failure. I don't buy into the Davis is lazy thing. I buy into the team either hasn't learned how to defend the arc in the pack line D, or otherwise, or the staff is failing to get them to implement it, or both. This loss had little to do with Davis, and he's shown real flashes. He's a soph big learning a new system, learning positional play and timing, and learning how to be more of an emphasis player after Bryant's departure. 

Hmmmmm........plenty of blame to be passed around, but where was DD in the ND game?  He disappeared in a game we won.  

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BGleas

BGleas

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The last two games have just been terrible match-ups for Davis. Because of his physical limitations some teams are going to present problems for him. You can't have him out on the perimeter chasing 3-pt shooting bigs like ND and FW have. He's too slow to rotate back and it jacks things up. He'll be great against teams like Duke and Purdue who have bigs that largely stay in the paint. 

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