MLB discussion

[5fouls]

10 hours ago, rico said:

They should have put a retractable roof on that stadium.

Mlb should not schedule home games in Minnesota,  Detroit, Cleveland, or Chicago until April 15th.

[5fouls]

Start the srason later.  Schedule a half dozen day / night doubleheaders for each team.  You still get the same number of gates per year.  

[5fouls]

20 hours ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Yadi continues to rake with his 3rd HR of the season. If he keeps playing like this for another 3-5 years, I think he’s HOF-bound. Thoughts? 

Molina is not Hall worthy.

[rico]

28 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Mlb should not schedule home games in Minnesota,  Detroit, Cleveland, or Chicago until April 15th.

They ain't figured that out yet.

[rico]

22 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Molina is not Hall worthy.

I don't know about that bro.  If he keeps going like he is going he might make it to 2,500 hits.  Throw in the defense.

[Stlboiler23]

2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Molina is not Hall worthy.

Why’s that?

[rico]

3 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Why’s that?

Statistically, he doesn't stack up against the greats.  But I think he could.  I have a different look at the Hall than most.  

[Stlboiler23]

1 hour ago, rico said:

I don't know about that bro.  If he keeps going like he is going he might make it to 2,500 hits.  Throw in the defense.

Depends how much longer he plays. Would probably need 6 more seasons to get there. 

[Stlboiler23]

Just now, rico said:

Statistically, he doesn't stack up against the greats.  But I think he could.  I have a different look at the Hall than most.  

I think when all is said and done, if he has another productive 4 or 5 years, he deserves to be in. His defense, ability to call games, and his offense should be enough to get him in IMO. 

[rico]

1 minute ago, Stlboiler23 said:

I think when all is said and done, if he has another productive 4 or 5 years, he deserves to be in. His defense, ability to call games, and his offense should be enough to get him in IMO. 

I haven't looked up everything.  But Molina has been the best catcher of his generation and that says something.  Sorry Buster Posey.

[Stlboiler23]

5 minutes ago, rico said:

I haven't looked up everything.  But Molina has been the best catcher of his generation and that says something.  Sorry Buster Posey.

Agreed. If you look at his pickoffs, caught stealing, and the simple fact that teams don’t run against him, he’s elite in every sense of the word. Add in his gold gloves and if he can get to 2,000 hits? Hall of Fame should be there for him. 

[KoB2011]

26 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Agreed. If you look at his pickoffs, caught stealing, and the simple fact that teams don’t run against him, he’s elite in every sense of the word. Add in his gold gloves and if he can get to 2,000 hits? Hall of Fame should be there for him. 

Interesting conversation. He's been elite on defense in every way bos for career but he has just been much above average on offense. Anything he accomplishes at the plate is more a testament to longevity than skill. 

Having said that,  I think of him as a Jason Varitek plus. I think that should him in but won't. 

[Leathernecks]

I don't know about Molina.  They're completely different players, but it took Mike Piazza 4 years on the ballot to get in.

Piazza was in the top 10 in MVP voting 7 times compared to Molina's 2.  Top 15 in MVP voting 11 times for Piazza, 2 for Molina.  Molina's defense is a huge plus for him, but that isn't enough to get him in in my opinion.

Ivan Rodriguez would be another example.  Fantastic defense (13 Gold Gloves to Molina's 8), great arm, and offense that is way better than Molina.  Even if Molina plays 4 more productive years (which I won't believe until I see it), Rodriguez will still likely have twice as many home runs, tons more runs, rbis, stolen bases, triples, higher average, etc.  Rodriguez is one of the top 2-3 best catchers of all time.  He barely squeaked into the hall his first year eligible.

Those are the only two catchers who played the last 25 years to get in.

I see Molina as a huge step below Rodriguez, and a pretty good step below Piazza.  I don't see him making it in.

[rico]

As of now......Molina has a lifetime BA of .284.  He has a good chance of eclipsing the 2,000 hit mark and 1,000 RBI's.  He is walking in rarified air for a catcher.

[Stlboiler23]

1 minute ago, rico said:

As of now......Molina has a lifetime BA of .284.  He has a good chance of eclipsing the 2,000 hit mark and 1,000 RBI's.  He is walking in rarified air for a catcher.

Exactly. And that’s just offense. Defense he’s already HOF-worthy IMO. 

[Stlboiler23]

7 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

I don't know about Molina.  They're completely different players, but it took Mike Piazza 4 years on the ballot to get in.

Piazza was in the top 10 in MVP voting 7 times compared to Molina's 2.  Top 15 in MVP voting 11 times for Piazza, 2 for Molina.  Molina's defense is a huge plus for him, but that isn't enough to get him in in my opinion.

Ivan Rodriguez would be another example.  Fantastic defense (13 Gold Gloves to Molina's 8), great arm, and offense that is way better than Molina.  Even if Molina plays 4 more productive years (which I won't believe until I see it), Rodriguez will still likely have twice as many home runs, tons more runs, rbis, stolen bases, triples, higher average, etc.  Rodriguez is one of the top 2-3 best catchers of all time.  He barely squeaked into the hall his first year eligible.

Those are the only two catchers who played the last 25 years to get in.

I see Molina as a huge step below Rodriguez, and a pretty good step below Piazza.  I don't see him making it in.

Is Molina really a pretty good step below Piazza? I’d agree when it comes to offense but on defense, Molina blows Piazza out of the water. Rodriguez was the whole pckage when it came to an elite two-way catcher but Piazza was only offense. Yadi’s offense alone isn’t enough to get him in obviously but that combined with his elite defense should be good enough. I’d think it’d take a few years for him to get voted in though. 

[Leathernecks]

29 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Is Molina really a pretty good step below Piazza? I’d agree when it comes to offense but on defense, Molina blows Piazza out of the water. Rodriguez was the whole pckage when it came to an elite two-way catcher but Piazza was only offense. Yadi’s offense alone isn’t enough to get him in obviously but that combined with his elite defense should be good enough. I’d think it’d take a few years for him to get voted in though. 

I really do think he's a pretty good step below Piazza.  I think he should get on the ballot, but not in the Hall.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Is Molina really a pretty good step below Piazza? I’d agree when it comes to offense but on defense, Molina blows Piazza out of the water. Rodriguez was the whole pckage when it came to an elite two-way catcher but Piazza was only offense. Yadi’s offense alone isn’t enough to get him in obviously but that combined with his elite defense should be good enough. I’d think it’d take a few years for him to get voted in though. 

Yes. If you can't see he is FAR below Piazza you're showing an extreme bias. Piazza had a WAR of 59, Molina's is only 37. 

Molina is not a good offensive player, anything he accumulates is because of longevity. His OPS+ is below 100 for his career. 

[KoB2011]

Yadier is similar to a guy like Omar Vizquel. Great defense, played an important role on some great teams, but any offense if because of longevity. That's why counting stats don't mean diddly. 

I personally don't have a problem with defensive guys getting in, but the reality is they usually don't. 

[Stlboiler23]

2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Yadier is similar to a guy like Omar Vizquel. Great defense, played an important role on some great teams, but any offense if because of longevity. That's why counting stats don't mean diddly. 

I personally don't have a problem with defensive guys getting in, but the reality is they usually don't. 

Why is that the reality though? Yadi’s defense is HOF-worthy. Why isn’t that enough? It’d be one thing if he was a .240 hitter that was only a good defender. But he’s solid on offense. 

[KoB2011]

30 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Why is that the reality though? Yadi’s defense is HOF-worthy. Why isn’t that enough? It’d be one thing if he was a .240 hitter that was only a good defender. But he’s solid on offense. 

You'd have to ask the voters but that is typically how the voting plays out. I don't know that I can agree he is solid on offense, he has a slightly below average OPS+ for his career. 

Again, I think he is similar to a guy like Vizquel. They both play defense focused positions and both stack up favorably on defense with anyone to ever play the game but both are at best average on offense. 

[rico]

5 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Yes. If you can't see he is FAR below Piazza you're showing an extreme bias. Piazza had a WAR of 59, Molina's is only 37. 

Molina is not a good offensive player, anything he accumulates is because of longevity. His OPS+ is below 100 for his career. 

Have you looked at Molina's offensive stats?  And I hate the Cardinals.  They are pretty dang good.  Not a good offensive player is hog wash.  A lifetime BA of .284.  The guy can hit.  The only thing that I see is his lack of power.  But I-Rod didn't have that either.  Right here, right now he is border line.  And I don't want to hear longevity stuff.  Sometimes that is what it takes.  He has proven he has durable at arguably the most career ending position in baseball.

[KoB2011]

35 minutes ago, rico said:

Have you looked at Molina's offensive stats?  And I hate the Cardinals.  They are pretty dang good.  Not a good offensive player is hog wash.  A lifetime BA of .284.  The guy can hit.  The only thing that I see is his lack of power.  But I-Rod didn't have that either.  Right here, right now he is border line.  And I don't want to hear longevity stuff.  Sometimes that is what it takes.  He has proven he has durable at arguably the most career ending position in baseball.

Pudge's WAR was 68 compared to 37 for Molina. His OPS+ was much higher in his peak years too. 

The argument you guys are making is Molina is a HOFer is he keeps this up, but Pudge didn't keep it up despite how long he played and still has better career numbers. 

[rico]

26 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Pudge's WAR was 68 compared to 37 for Molina. His OPS+ was much higher in his peak years too. 

The argument you guys are making is Molina is a HOFer is he keeps this up, but Pudge didn't keep it up despite how long he played and still has better career numbers. 

I don't know if he is a HoFer.  But right now he is border line.  Think Carlton Fisk.  Yadi is no Johnny Bench, Yogi Berra, or Gary Carter.  But his numbers do stack up pretty decently with other catchers in the Hall.  

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, rico said:

I don't know if he is a HoFer.  But right now he is border line.  Think Carlton Fisk.  Yadi is no Johnny Bench, Yogi Berra, or Gary Carter.  But his numbers do stack up pretty decently with other catchers in the Hall.  

No, he doesn't. He isn't even top 20 in WAR. Fisk is top 5.