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FW_Hoosier

General State of Recruiting Thread

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34 minutes ago, Blazin Hazin said:

Which Big 10 coaches had better resumes at the time of their hiring than Archie?  

Beilein? probably is the only one

Holtman has a comparable one- but not any better.

Maybe Hoiberg- but I'm pretty skeptical about Hoiberg

 

Izzo, Underwood, Pitino, Painter, etc-  None of those guys had better resumes than Archie.

People love trashing athletic directors- they're an easy target.  What exactly did Fred Glass do wrong?  

 

 

 

 

Not only that, but OSU tried to hire CAM before Holtman

https://www.google.com/amp/s/factoryofsadness.co/2017/06/10/ohio-state-called-archie-miller-coaching-job/amp/

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

The Fab 5 never won a title of any kind, conference or NCAA so I would rather have a team like UVA with a lot of older experience players.

Yep and IU owned the Fab 5. 🍺

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2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

That is non sense because everyone national media outlet had Archie as one of the top young coaching candidates in the country.

It's a known fact Archie turned down NC State.  Unknown if there was an official offer or not, but he was in the mix and denied interest in Florida, Tennessee, Alabama and UNLV. 

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8 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I am probably on your ignore list...but man, I second FW_Hoosier.  Some of you are too sensitive.  People pull out the pom-poms when things are going well and they clutch the pearls when they are not.

Seems like some of you don't want a discussion forum, you want a car bumper to put stickers on.  It is ok to question and criticize just like it is ok to cheer and hope.  Sometimes you can do it all.

Miller is not a god.  He has flaws.  It is ok to discuss those flaws.  He also has positives.  It is ok to talk about those too.  I think this place would be pretty boring if all the talk was:

"I hope Hunter comes back and turns into Oladipo.  He is going to surprise a bunch of people and lead us to the Sweet 16!"

"Ditto"

"I want what your selling."

<s>"Hey guys isn't it a bit unfair to put those kind of expectations on someone who was hurt all year?"</s>

"HOO-HOO-HOO-HOOSIERS!!!  We are back BABY!"

"The Big Ten better watch out..."

Then next April....

"We'll get them next year.  Yeah we were 19-15 and made it a round further in the NIT, so progress.  I mean, the team was being led by Crean recruits and guys that Archie had to cobble together at the last minute.  All these people with their unrealistic expectations need to chill.  He should get 4 years and we have TJD coming back and new shiny recruits coming in that we can foist unrealistic expectations on...."

"Yeah, screw the h8trz...IU is back baby!!!!"

Nah, you aren't on my ignore list. I just wanted to point out that if someone didn't like reading what someone typically posts they could ignore them. 

edit: Part of discussing things with people is understanding when to gracefully back out of a conversation as opposed to getting in the last word, arguing for arguments sake or simply beating a dead horse just because you feel you're right. 

Edited by SawatchHoosier
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2 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

Nah, you aren't on my ignore list. I just wanted to point out that if someone didn't like reading what someone typically posts they could ignore them. 

When I was on the other site I use to put some on ignore but you could still see the other posters arguing with the posters I put on ignore. 

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14 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

The Fab 5 never won a title of any kind, conference or NCAA so I would rather have a team like UVA with a lot of older experience players.

The Fab 5 never got beat by a #16 seed either.

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2 minutes ago, rico said:

The Fab 5 never got beat by a #16 seed either.

I bet if you asked the Fab 5 that they would have taken that kind of an L in order to get a ring later.  I would.

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30 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

You're ignoring the fact that a large part of the team was not chosen by Archie to fit his system and the entire team had a season at best learning that system before last season.  Almost half of the team was brand new to Archie's system.

Ha! Man, I hope it's that easy, that everything will be solved by Archie recruiting to his system and giving his players time to learn it. But I'm not ignoring the facts you presented, I'm simply not using them as reason to give a complete pass on the seasons we've seen thus far. Even acknowledging these limitations, I think we can still consider and form some early opinions of the product we've seen to this point on the court. I understand it's too early for us to expect Archie to have things fully up and running, and this program competing where we want to be. But we should still be looking for signs, flashes, reasons to believe he will ultimately get us there, no? What have you seen in Archie's tenure so far to make you feel in the affirmative that yes, he's the guy, once we agree that it's too early to know for sure? There's a lot said in the rest of my post, and you responded to only one snip.

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6 minutes ago, rico said:

The Fab 5 never got beat by a #16 seed either.

Well if you told me one year you lose to a 16 seed then the next win a championship, then sign me up

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1 minute ago, Maedhros said:

Ha! Man, I hope it's that easy, that everything will be solved by Archie recruiting to his system and giving his players time to learn it. But I'm not ignoring the facts you presented, I'm simply not using them as reason to give a complete pass on the seasons we've seen thus far. Even acknowledging these limitations, I think we can still consider and form some early opinions of the product we've seen to this point on the court. I understand it's too early for us to expect Archie to have things fully up and running, and this program competing where we want to be. But we should still be looking for signs, flashes, reasons to believe he will ultimately get us there, no? What have you seen in Archie's tenure so far to make you feel in the affirmative that yes, he's the guy, once we agree that it's too early to know for sure? There's a lot said in the rest of my post, and you responded to only one snip.

I have been negative so I will try to counter balance that:

Our defense has improved, even among guys that were not recruited for that type of system.  Early in the year last year before the team fell apart, we were winning the type of close, grind it out games that we have not been all that successful in since Knight left.  I believe that if he gets the offense to be a little better that the type of defense he pushes will help keep us in games when the shooting might be a little off on a given night.  Butler would grind us out during the Crean years and we did to them what they have done to us.  I hope his offense becomes more dynamic but the defense makes us like the Butler and Wisconsin teams that gave  Crean fits.

We may have taken a step back in recruiting but I like the players we are targeting.  Leal and Galloway may not be one and dones but they appear to be the type of player that have the "it" that works for this fanbase.  Think of an AJ Moye, Tom Coverdale, Mike Lewis, Dane Fife, Victor Oladipo kind of guys.  They have the talent but they bring that lunch pail attitude with them too.  Those kind of players can go far.

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32 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I have been negative so I will try to counter balance that:

Our defense has improved, even among guys that were not recruited for that type of system.  Early in the year last year before the team fell apart, we were winning the type of close, grind it out games that we have not been all that successful in since Knight left.  I believe that if he gets the offense to be a little better that the type of defense he pushes will help keep us in games when the shooting might be a little off on a given night.  Butler would grind us out during the Crean years and we did to them what they have done to us.  I hope his offense becomes more dynamic but the defense makes us like the Butler and Wisconsin teams that gave  Crean fits.

We may have taken a step back in recruiting but I like the players we are targeting.  Leal and Galloway may not be one and dones but they appear to be the type of player that have the "it" that works for this fanbase.  Think of an AJ Moye, Tom Coverdale, Mike Lewis, Dane Fife, Victor Oladipo kind of guys.  They have the talent but they bring that lunch pail attitude with them too.  Those kind of players can go far.

I'm not a regular here, so I also don't want to come across as only negative. I do love the defense improvements, though the clear and obvious leaps on that side of the ball make claims of a debilitating mismatch between players and system less convincing. I'm also somewhat style agnostic; I don't think anything's been gained if the defense becomes elite but the offense pedestrian. We were a top ten offense most years under Crean, following the rebuild, but a lack of balance kept us from achieving the results we wanted.

I truly hope our struggles scoring the ball last season were purely a result of guys being injured, that Al Devonte and Rob can provide the shooting we need and didn't recruit, that Jerome can be the primary scoring option on the wing we were hoping to land with Keion. Maybe the answers to the questions around this team can be found on the roster already. But after watching too many missed shots from the line and from behind the arc, after watching so many slow starts with low effort and guys who looked like they'd never met before that night's game, I approach these questions with doubt where I once had faith we would be able to get things right.

So many of the reasons offered to explain why our struggles weren't on Archie centered on the roster he inherited; lack of shooters, not recruited for his system, poor chemistry, etc. Maybe those reasons were true. But then wouldn't that be cause to expect roster turnover, and/or an aggressive approach on the recruiting trail? Except for the health of our roster, we appear to be entering the coming season with the same weaknesses as the year before. Tough not to feel like we're stuck in neutral.

Edited by Maedhros
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35 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

 

I'm not a regular here, so I also don't want to come across as only negative. I do love the defense improvements, though the clear and obvious leaps on that side of the ball make claims of a debilitating mismatch between players and system less convincing. I'm also somewhat style agnostic; I don't think anything's been gained if the defense becomes elite but the offense pedestrian. We were a top ten offense most years under Crean, following the rebuild, but a lack of balance kept us from achieving the results we wanted.

I truly hope our struggles scoring the ball last season were purely a result of guys being injured, that Al Devonte and Rob can provide the shooting we need and didn't recruit, that Jerome can be the primary scoring option on the wing we were hoping to land with Keion. Maybe the answers to the questions around this team can be found on the roster already. But after watching too many missed shots from the line and from behind the arc, after watching so many slow starts with low effort and guys who looked like they'd never met before that night's game, I approach these questions with doubt where I once had faith we would be able to get things right.

So many of the reasons offered to explain why our struggles weren't on Archie centered on the roster he inherited; lack of shooters, not recruited for his system, poor chemistry, etc. Maybe those reasons were true. But then wouldn't that be cause to expect roster turnover, and/or an aggressive approach on the recruiting trail? Except for the health of our roster, we appear to be entering the coming season with the same weaknesses as the year before. Tough not to feel like we're stuck in neutral.

That is one fine take.  

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1 hour ago, Maedhros said:

 

I'm not a regular here, so I also don't want to come across as only negative. I do love the defense improvements, though the clear and obvious leaps on that side of the ball make claims of a debilitating mismatch between players and system less convincing. I'm also somewhat style agnostic; I don't think anything's been gained if the defense becomes elite but the offense pedestrian. We were a top ten offense most years under Crean, following the rebuild, but a lack of balance kept us from achieving the results we wanted.

I truly hope our struggles scoring the ball last season were purely a result of guys being injured, that Al Devonte and Rob can provide the shooting we need and didn't recruit, that Jerome can be the primary scoring option on the wing we were hoping to land with Keion. Maybe the answers to the questions around this team can be found on the roster already. But after watching too many missed shots from the line and from behind the arc, after watching so many slow starts with low effort and guys who looked like they'd never met before that night's game, I approach these questions with doubt where I once had faith we would be able to get things right.

So many of the reasons offered to explain why our struggles weren't on Archie centered on the roster he inherited; lack of shooters, not recruited for his system, poor chemistry, etc. Maybe those reasons were true. But then wouldn't that be cause to expect roster turnover, and/or an aggressive approach on the recruiting trail? Except for the health of our roster, we appear to be entering the coming season with the same weaknesses as the year before. Tough not to feel like we're stuck in neutral.

How much roster turnover do you feel was needed?  I feel like the staff has been pretty aggressive on the recruiting trail.  Have they been successful?  That's not been answered.  It's been said that the administration wouldn't allow Coach Miller to remove some players when he arrived, so who knows what restrictions still exist.  I'm quite sure Coach Miller is doing everything he can to keep this rebuild moving in a positive direction.

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3 minutes ago, Long Duk Dong said:

Looks like 2019 is set now. As well as our roster.

On to 2020. 

11 player roster is Hunter is healthy. We better hope we dont have multiple injuries again or we will be playing managers soon. 

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On 5/9/2019 at 1:18 PM, Maedhros said:

 

I'm not a regular here, so I also don't want to come across as only negative. I do love the defense improvements, though the clear and obvious leaps on that side of the ball make claims of a debilitating mismatch between players and system less convincing. I'm also somewhat style agnostic; I don't think anything's been gained if the defense becomes elite but the offense pedestrian. We were a top ten offense most years under Crean, following the rebuild, but a lack of balance kept us from achieving the results we wanted.

I truly hope our struggles scoring the ball last season were purely a result of guys being injured, that Al Devonte and Rob can provide the shooting we need and didn't recruit, that Jerome can be the primary scoring option on the wing we were hoping to land with Keion. Maybe the answers to the questions around this team can be found on the roster already. But after watching too many missed shots from the line and from behind the arc, after watching so many slow starts with low effort and guys who looked like they'd never met before that night's game, I approach these questions with doubt where I once had faith we would be able to get things right.

So many of the reasons offered to explain why our struggles weren't on Archie centered on the roster he inherited; lack of shooters, not recruited for his system, poor chemistry, etc. Maybe those reasons were true. But then wouldn't that be cause to expect roster turnover, and/or an aggressive approach on the recruiting trail? Except for the health of our roster, we appear to be entering the coming season with the same weaknesses as the year before. Tough not to feel like we're stuck in neutral.

Good take. I think alot of poeple expected major shakeups this spring including possbily even new assistant coaches to help with the offense. It was a dud of spring to say the least. People said certains players were cancers to the team yet they are still with the team. You cannot be making excuses still in year three but like you said we are basically going into next season with the same  weaknesses plus we lost our two highest scores.

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2 hours ago, Bedford1432 said:

Good take. I think alot of poeple expected major shakeups this spring including possbily even new assistant coaches to help with the offense. It was a dud of spring to say the least. People said certains players were cancers to the team yet they are still with the team. You cannot be making excuses still in year three but like you said we are basically going into next season with the same  weaknesses plus we lost our two highest scores.

Who knows who the cancers were. Maybe they are actually gone and we don’t know. Either way, we lost some of our players the last 2 seasons and improved. We do lose our top 2 scorers but will be gaining a lot of experience. To me the experience outweighs the injured freshmen who could score but not shoot and the senior leader who couldn’t lead. Wish them both well in their professional endeavors. IU will be better overall moving forward. 

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4 hours ago, Bedford1432 said:

Good take. I think alot of poeple expected major shakeups this spring including possbily even new assistant coaches to help with the offense. It was a dud of spring to say the least. People said certains players were cancers to the team yet they are still with the team. You cannot be making excuses still in year three but like you said we are basically going into next season with the same  weaknesses plus we lost our two highest scores.

Why did anyone expect a shakeup to the coaching staff? There was zero indication of that. 

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2 hours ago, Feathery said:

Who knows who the cancers were. Maybe they are actually gone and we don’t know. Either way, we lost some of our players the last 2 seasons and improved. We do lose our top 2 scorers but will be gaining a lot of experience. To me the experience outweighs the injured freshmen who could score but not shoot and the senior leader who couldn’t lead. Wish them both well in their professional endeavors. IU will be better overall moving forward. 

Lol, this makes no sense

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2 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Lol, this makes no sense

What doesn’t make sense? We lost some of our top players 2 years ago, and we won more. We lose top players again this year, but will return a more veteran team. We don’t really know who the cancers were, if you were referring to that. 

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11 hours ago, Feathery said:

Who knows who the cancers were. Maybe they are actually gone and we don’t know. Either way, we lost some of our players the last 2 seasons and improved. We do lose our top 2 scorers but will be gaining a lot of experience. To me the experience outweighs the injured freshmen who could score but not shoot and the senior leader who couldn’t lead. Wish them both well in their professional endeavors. IU will be better overall moving forward. 

I understand your point and I hope it's true. I have some nervousness about losing our 2 best offensive players, not adding any proven shooters and actually being a better team. Never know though. When we started in 89 like crap and Knight flipped to 3 guard offense everyone thought he was crazy and it worked. 

 

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10 hours ago, BGleas said:

Why did anyone expect a shakeup to the coaching staff? There was zero indication of that. 

I thought Osterman was mentioned with a couple different jobs earlier in the spring??

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I guess it’s time to wrap up the ‘19 class and hold the scholarships. Having two extra can’t necessarily be all that bad a thing, right? If the season that shall no longer be named had such an adverse effect on recruiting, then maybe a better season will have better effects. I truly think next year will be better. We can only hope.It already hurts to have my most realistic expectations to be 20 wins and a 7 seed, but that’s where we are. I am trying to be even keeled, no sunshine pumping, but also no sky is falling. I really think what has happened was that the staff counted on “the kid from Fort Wayne who is not a Blackmon.” I think the staff really expected him to join this class. We have good kids coming in, and maybe the toxicity will die down a little. if only because it’s the off season.

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2 hours ago, Indykev said:

TJD McD all-american, Mr.Basketball, Ind. All-Star, USA Team member, 5 star player. AF Ind. AllStar, 4 star Indiana kid, JB 6-10 Indiana kid with 3 years experience. Whats not to like about this class? Just because we jumped in late on a couple of kids and missed recruiting now sucks? Come on really? Still 2 scholly's in play, lets see what happens.

We once again failed to address the big issue...no shooters.  We need 3-4 of them.

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