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1 minute ago, Lostin76 said:

Maybe it was the "I Need a Haircut" sign that made me think that?

Protesting against your state actually trying to ensure your safety during a pandemic and protesting against your state killing people on film are two different things.

 

 

I guess the sarcasm of that sign escaped you...

And I never once equated the two things that were being protested...I only exposed your hypocrisy on protests...if it's something you like protests are ok...if not, they're bad...

I understand what side of the plate you swing from... And that's ok. Have many, many friends who have the same thoughts and beliefs... One lives in a condo in downtown Minneapolis. Texted him first thing this morning to make sure he and his wife were ok...

He has a slightly different view of the violence that's occuring right now...

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16 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I guess the sarcasm of that sign escaped you...

And I never once equated the two things that were being protested...I only exposed your hypocrisy on protests...if it's something you like protests are ok...if not, they're bad...

I understand what side of the plate you swing from... And that's ok. Have many, many friends who have the same thoughts and beliefs... One lives in a condo in downtown Minneapolis. Texted him first thing this morning to make sure he and his wife were ok...

He has a slightly different view of the violence that's occuring right now...

No, I got the sarcasm of the sign. We all did.

I'm glad you understand that our views are different. Trust me, I I get that I'm an outlier on this board. I also know that I'll disagree with many of you on this issue. And like you said, "that's OK." You and I will likely never agree on this and many other topics.

And as far as which protests are okay, that's not my decision. Or yours. But we both have a right to judge them or react to them. And that's exactly what we are doing.

@btownqb and I also disagreed, but we took it to PM and ended up talking about how pretty Nashville IN is. He and I aren't going to agree about these protests probably and that's cool. One of these days the IU basketball season will start back up and we can argue about lineups or coaching decisions.

I look forward to those days and to when these horrible days are over.

Lastly, here was the protest here in Brooklyn last night from my terrace when I got home. Peaceful, socially distant, and you can see the people cheering them on from their windows and balconies.

This is the kind of protest I witnessed last night and I'm here all day for it.

 

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5 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

And as far as which protests are okay, that's not my decision. Or yours. But we both have a right to judge them or react to them. And that's exactly what we are doing.

Thanks for the post... appreciate it...but the Constitution does indeed outline what protests are acceptable...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I'm ok with any protest that adheres to that one simple word...

Outside of that, I have an issue with it...

And to address any concerns @Brass Cannon would have about my feeling toward the American Revolution, once government overreach and oppression reach that point, we're in territory outside of the first amendment...

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8 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Thanks for the post... appreciate it...but the Constitution does indeed outline what protests are acceptable...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I'm ok with any protest that adheres to that one simple word...

Outside of that, I have an issue with it...

And to address any concerns @Brass Cannon would have about my feeling toward the American Revolution, once government overreach and oppression reach that point, we're in territory outside of the first amendment...

Black people are being murdered by agents of the government?

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Just now, Brass Cannon said:

Black people are being murdered by agents of the government?

Rogue elements...it's not like the government is complicit with Officer Chauvin's behavior...

He's been arrested and charged...due process of the law will take place, and hopefully he'll be made to pay his debt to society...his life is ruined no matter which way it goes, and rightfully so...

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12 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Rogue elements...it's not like the government is complicit with Officer Chauvin's behavior...

He's been arrested and charged...due process of the law will take place, and hopefully he'll be made to pay his debt to society...his life is ruined no matter which way it goes, and rightfully so...

One instance doesn’t restore trust. Besides why aren’t the other charged. 

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36 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

One instance doesn’t restore trust. Besides why aren’t the other charged. 

The others aren’t charged.... yet. The Governor’s statement this morning stated that it was an ongoing investigation, and that they wanted to get the guy they viewed as most dangerous off the streets as soon as they could. 

Just because they aren’t charged yet doesn’t mean they won’t be 

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1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

One instance doesn’t restore trust. Besides why aren’t the other charged. 

Ok, so an earlier instance would be Laquan McDonald and Jason Van Dyke...

And I'm sure the other 3 will be charged in time...

 

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47 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Black people are being murdered by agents of the government?

Okay, I'm violating my own promise to stay out of this! But explain to me the number one cause of Black deaths besides the usual heart disease, etc. is Black on Black murder. 

I love my brothers and sisters of color, but I remember telling a work associate from rural Georgia when he complained about being brought to work temporarily in rural Michigan,  his comment was that he should drive down to Detroit so he could be with his Brothers! I said I stand a better chance of surviving than he did! I told him those in Detroit were not his Brothers! Of course he also complained that MacDonald's in Michigan didn't serve grits!

Also remember a work trip to corporate in Upper NY with a couple of wonderful Ladies of Color! Have to say one of the best corporate trips I have been on, Love those girls. I have to also sheepishly admit I have not connected with one of them since she lost everything to a Tornado that blasted through Talbotton GA last year. But back to my rant, I warned them that they would not see a lot of black presence. I told them that when former slaves moved north to look for work, they went to the cities  not to the rural areas of the north!! I warned them they would not find blacks up there! But also told them, it wasn't because of any kind of nefarious purpose, it was simply because of economics!

Also warned them, that NY was not like rural GA and if they stepped down off the curb the drivers would hit them! We hadn't even walked three blocks and they both thanked me!

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I don't agree with many of the things posted here.  I'm appreciative of all of you for posting them, though, because it helps me see other people's viewpoints.

At the end, that's what this is all about - POC are trying to make it known that they live very, very different lives from a lot of us.  When their opinion clashes with your personal view of how you think society works, I'd urge you to try to listen and empathize with communities who are clearly in deep, deep pain. 

You don't have to change your mind - I haven't changed mine while reading this thread - but I feel better for understanding the thoughts of others whom I disagree with.

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On 5/29/2020 at 10:58 AM, btownqb said:

I hope they've also gone over the amount of black on black crime and to be aware of that, as well. 

Obviously these officers are 99% guilty, but let's not pretend a young black man should only fear the cops. 

I’ve debated weighing in on this topic because I don’t know if it will be well received, but here is how I feel.

Cops have an incredibly hard job to do, and none of us know (unless you are a cop or in the military), have no clue what these people deal with on a day to day basis. When these officers get out in very difficult situations, there is so much emotion, adrenaline, rushed judgement, etc that they are dealing with. I’m not saying this officer was right or justified, because anyone who murders someone deserves jail or worse. I’m just tired of “arm-chair police” who just go off on officers. 
 

Now, I do know there is racism that exists, I have mixed cousins and watched what they’ve had to go through. I’ve had countless black friends who have dealt with a lot of racism. Please let me make a point I’m in no way racist, I am a devout Christian who views everyone as my brothers and sisters. What really aggravates me is the constant uproar when there is a white on black crime (including police), but there is no national uproar or protests for black on black crime. I believe the FBI has statistics out there that blacks murdering blacks account for over 90% of murdered blacks. 
 

While anyone murdering is a shame and things do need to change, I have a hard time with any sort of Black Lives Matters movement or of that sorts when they aren’t trying to to stop murders within their own. 
 

** Please also understand when I use they, blacks, them, etc.... it’s not to be racist by any means, just trying to be more clear with what I’m talking about**
 

Also, would there be as much white cops killing black cops if there was more compliance when the white officer is talking or questioning? Michael Brown failed you move to the sidewalk when the officer asked them to, and then became physical with the officer. However, Brown’s friend lied to everyone about how it went down and chaos ensued over that false information.

Sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings or came across rude..... that wasn’t my intention and was just to state how I feel. I feel I have a hard time with my stance for fear of being labeling incorrectly because I love everyone. I was the kid in high school and college who made friends with anyone and everyone. I just want love to prevail, but also for everyone to look inside themselves instead of casting blame, especially before all the facts come out. We all need to love each other and have compassion, which is why I’m active in my church, coaching, community, etc. 

God bless everyone, I hope we can peacefully come together to discuss and work on issues to make a better world!

Edited by JaybobHoosier
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I lied. One more post. Just got a text from a buddy. His bars/restaurants have been closed until last week downtown Indy. I texted him this morning to make sure he's all good. So far yes....but his response was this. Now I'm spending good $ and boarding up windows,etc...for his bars/restaurants downtown Indy in the event the protests go crazy tonight. 

And before the property over lives police come at me...I'll say what I said earlier today and in corona thread. When you shut down a country of people who work to provide for their families, themselves, food, shelter, clothing,etc....lose their jobs they start to lose hope. Racism and bad cops have been around for centuries. You add racism, bad cops, coverage of these events WITH 40 million Americans who are losing hope because they are unemployed you have a powder keg. 

I pray today/tonight/tomorrow will be about protest because I'm fairly certain throwing rocks into windows and stealing purses/tvs and whatever else is on hand isn't want MLK had in mind. 

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Been thinking about making a shout out to our great mods. This is a sensitive topic. At a sensitive time for our country.  Thank you mods for not locking or taking down this thread. There's a need. Right now.  And thanks to all of our members who have participated in this thread, for the civil manner in which you have handled yourselves.

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1 hour ago, JaybobHoosier said:

God bless everyone, I hope we can peacefully come together to discuss and work on issues to make a better world!

Jaybob, I whole heartedly agree with what you posted!! But I as a fellow Christian who has been on international mission trips, have to call you out! Claiming your Christianity is just another form of racism! I have a good friend who survived the genocide of misguided Serbian Christians that sought to kill all Muslims in Kosovo! He and I have had many conversations and one thing we most whole heartedly agree upon, there is a higher presence! You need to ratchet down your Hollier than though presence and understand that you are a racist!    

Love you Brother, and I mean it!

Edited by Drroogh
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On 5/29/2020 at 11:42 AM, btownqb said:

Yeah Kap just isn't any good. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/in-light-of-george-floyds-death-ex-nfl-exec-admits-what-we-knew-all-along-protests-ended-colin-kaepernicks-career-175616379.html

 

The NFL appears to disagree. It was always about the fear of financial loss because there are a lot of racist idiots. 

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16 hours ago, mrflynn03 said:

Probably because murder 1 requires some level of premeditation. Keep in mind a prosecutor is going to lay on charges that are most likely to stick.

Not a lawyer, but sat on a federal jury selection panel for the Grundy gang case last year and learned alot about judicial proceedings.

 

Sure, but there is also second degree murder. 

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MN gov said in a press conference that up to 80% of rioters may be from out of state.

AG Bill Barr saying extremist groups behind the protests.

Be clear, there are two different things going on here. Peaceful protesters are being hijacked by extremist antifa types. 

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1 hour ago, Drroogh said:

Jaybob, I whole heartedly agree with what you posted!! But I as a fellow Christian who has been on international mission trips, have to call you out! Claiming your Christianity is just another form of racism! I have a good friend who survived the genocide of misguided Serbian Christians that sought to kill all Muslims in Kosovo! He and I have had many conversations and one thing we most whole heartedly agree upon, there is a higher presence! You need to ratchet down your Hollier than though presence and understand that you are a racist!    

Love you Brother, and I mean it!

Just curious why my Christianity and view point casts me as a racist? Because I use my Christianity to live a Christian life and be a better person and want to make the world a better place? I guess I don’t understand at all how I’m racist for my religious beliefs? When did being an outgoing Christian become racism? 
 

God and Jesus were about love and compassion, so even if they don’t exist, why is that a bad thing to live by? If I didn’t believe in Christianity but still had the same views, am I a racist? I guess I don’t get where you are coming from saying I’m a racist by being a Christian. 
 

If you are saying I’m a racist and shouldn’t be Christian because you don’t think I am, then what makes you better than the Jews that Jesus corrected? I share a different view point because I acknowledge racism, but believe we all need to look at ourselves  to help fix a lot of issues going on in the world. We can take this to direct messages here not to take this thread off the rails.

Just because I don’t agree with looting, rioting, and also that I struggle to fully support “BlackLivesMatters” motto, doesn’t make me racist. 

Edited by JaybobHoosier

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9 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

Black people also commit violent crimes at a much, much higher rate than white people.  I remember reading somewhere that when you account for that white people are actually more likely to be shot by police.   I don't know if that's true but it's probably close to accurate. 

From Wikipedia:

HomicideEdit

According to the US Department of Justice, African Americans accounted for 52.5% of all homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with Whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for African Americans was almost 8 times higher than Whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of White victims killed by Whites, and 93% of African American victims were killed by African Americans.[49][50][51]

In 2013, African Americans accounted for 52.2% of all murder arrests, with Whites 45.3% and Asians/Native Americans 2.5%. Of the above, 21.7% were Hispanic.[52][53]

Blacks account for the majority of gun homicide victims/arrestees in the US while Whites account for the vast majority of non-gun homicide victims/arrestees. Of the gun murder victims in the United States between 2007–2016, 57% were black, 40.6% white (including Hispanic), 1.35% Asian, 0.98% unknown race and 0.48% Native American.

RobberyEdit

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey in 2002, robberies with white victims and black offenders were more than 12 times more common than vice versa.[61][62]

This only deals with convicted crimes so excuse me if I think it's incredibly incomplete and biased data. 

 

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Trying to say that Black people have to solve black on violence before they can be upset about agents of the government killing them without repercussion is really just whataboutism. 
 

You don’t get to tell a group they can’t be upset about something because they should be upset about something else. 

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7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Trying to say that Black people have to solve black on violence before they can be upset about agents of the government killing them without repercussion is really just whataboutism. 
 

You don’t get to tell a group they can’t be upset about something because they should be upset about something else. 

So...... let’s say ten black people are murdered, 9 were committed by black people and 1 by a white person. Riots ensue about the white person murdering a black, but not the other 9 innocent victims.  I guess I struggle when there is only an outcry for racism when it’s a white person committing the crime instead of when almost every murder of a black person is by a black person.

Every murder is wrong, RACISM IS WRONG, but where is the outcry for all blacks being murdered? Where was the outcry for a 9 year old black girl murdered here in St. Louis in her bedroom doing homework by a black young male that shot up the house? I’m sick of all murders, and my whole premise is we all need to work together to fix the issues with it all, not just a select view crimes of the other race. I believe we are all equal, no one better than the other. 911 and all these mass shooting, they hurt so bad. I’m a conservative that believes in stricter gun laws in an attempt to help our country. 
 

I know I’m not always right, but I believe whole heartedly in everyone being better people and loving each other. 

Edited by JaybobHoosier
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34 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/in-light-of-george-floyds-death-ex-nfl-exec-admits-what-we-knew-all-along-protests-ended-colin-kaepernicks-career-175616379.html

 

The NFL appears to disagree. It was always about the fear of financial loss because there are a lot of racist idiots. 

He went 1-11 the last year he started. I would not be a Colts fan if we had signed Kap and I thank God Irsay put an end to the Colts kneeling. 

He's not good, he will cost your team money, and he's phony as all get out. 🤷‍♂️ 

Dude literally wore socks with police as pigs. He is old news. 

Edited by btownqb
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Instead of instinctually telling POC how we think they should feel, challenge yourself to listen to how they are feeling and ask why that is. 

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