IPFW post game

[Proud2BAHoosier]

10 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergaard said:

Rico,

You've been more than a little cranky of late. 

Spend some time with your wife, if you know what I mean 😗

Losing seems to do that with a lot of us lately.....

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, rico said:

So you are saying I have been out of character?

Just a little salty but I am just a guy on a chat board 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

Losing seems to do that with a lot of us lately.....

Then maybe we all need to spend a little time with our wives/ significant others 😎

[Proud2BAHoosier]

3 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergaard said:

Then maybe we all need to spend a little time with our wives/ significant others 😎

Not happenin'....  Wife kicked me out after all the cussin' and hollerin' at last nights game

[KoB2011]

29 minutes ago, rico said:

Notre Dame played like shit.

I do remember them missing a lot of open shots.... wait no I don't. 

[rico]

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

I do remember them missing a lot of open shots.... wait no I don't. 

Better check the stats.  I posted them somewhere.

[KoB2011]

3 minutes ago, rico said:

Better check the stats.  I posted them somewhere.

You have stats on open looks they missed?  I remember a lot of good defense and contested looks. 

[rico]

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

You have stats on open looks they missed?  I remember a lot of good defense and contested looks. 

Colson 9-21 and 0-3 from three.

Farrell 5-14 and 2-8 from three.

Pflueger 1-8 and 0-3 from three.

 

Do you got stats on contested shots?  

[KoB2011]

Just now, rico said:

Colson 9-21 and 0-3 from three.

Farrell 5-14 and 2-8 from three.

Pflueger 1-8 and 0-3 from three.

 

Do you got stats on contested shots?  

Yeah I can look that up myself, but you've got nothing to show that ND just missed shots and played like crap as you asserted.  Even some video clips for good old anecdotal evidence would help your argument.  We already know you had an ND fan in your ear who of course thought they played like crap in a loss....

[BobSaccamanno]

While a number of people are jumping on the coaching, I saw a team that completely lacked energy out there.  There was some half assed defensive closeouts and completely lackadaisical ball control.  

The pack line is a work in progress.  I’d like to see how Archie’s pack line differs, if at all, from Tony Bennett’s.  I like Tony and think his defense is as tough as anybody’s in the country.  I don’t see our defense working in the same manner as Tony’s.  Tony really clogs things up and makes it difficult to move the toward the bucket.  While everyone is focusing on our close outs on shooters, I’m still puzzled by the fact that teams are able to move the ball too easily.  It may be a technical question, but I’d love to ask Archie how his version of pack line differs from Tony’s.  It’s pretty evident that at some level, you’re going to give up outside shots. That’s by design.  But with Tony’s version, the offense gets stymied trying to move down toward the bucket and so they pass it around on the outside until someone jacks up an ill advised shot.  My take is that we need to shut down the flow toward the bucket and then the outside shooting will end up more predictable to cover and more frustrated.  Right now, we are giving up easy ball movement and that leads to opponents setting up more comfortable outside shooting.  At the end of the day, we do not have veterans showing younger players.  It’s a new system, and the adjustment is significant.  Sorry that was so long, but that’s my observation. 

Bringing in Newkirk was a mistake.  It was bad roster management.  I’m sure he’s a good kid but he doesn’t complement our roster.  His decision making is erratic, as is his shooting.  He’s very delicate with his confidence which leads to his streakiness. He seems quick yet gets beaten on defense too easily.  I’m not bashing him as a human being but pointing out the obvious.  He’s not a net positive with his skill set.  Six turnovers by Rob. It’s absolutely ridiculous.  Some of it was just half assed play.  

That is not to say the coaching is perfect.  I would have kept Morgan and Davis going and just pounded them inside all day regardless of the defense. You can demoralize a team that way.  Granted, there was some piss poor post feeding, but I would have stuck with it.  

[KoB2011]

20 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

While a number of people are jumping on the coaching, I saw a team that completely lacked energy out there.  There was some half assed defensive closeouts and completely lackadaisical ball control.  

The pack line is a work in progress.  I’d like to see how Archie’s pack line differs, if at all, from Tony Bennett’s.  I like Tony and think his defense is as tough as anybody’s in the country.  I don’t see our defense working in the same manner as Tony’s.  Tony really clogs things up and makes it difficult to move the toward the bucket.  While everyone is focusing on our close outs on shooters, I’m still puzzled by the fact that teams are able to move the ball too easily.  It may be a technical question, but I’d love to ask Archie how his version of pack line differs from Tony’s.  It’s pretty evident that at some level, you’re going to give up outside shots. That’s by design.  But with Tony’s version, the offense gets stymied trying to move down toward the bucket and so they pass it around on the outside until someone jacks up an ill advised shot.  My take is that we need to shut down the flow toward the bucket and then the outside shooting will end up more predictable to cover and more frustrated.  Right now, we are giving up easy ball movement and that leads to opponents setting up more comfortable outside shooting.  At the end of the day, we do not have veterans showing younger players.  It’s a new system, and the adjustment is significant.  Sorry that was so long, but that’s my observation. 

Bringing in Newkirk was a mistake.  It was bad roster management.  I’m sure he’s a good kid but he doesn’t complement our roster.  His decision making is erratic, as is his shooting.  He’s very delicate with his confidence which leads to his streakiness. He seems quick yet gets beaten on defense too easily.  I’m not bashing him as a human being but pointing out the obvious.  He’s not a net positive with his skill set.  Six turnovers by Rob. It’s absolutely ridiculous.  Some of it was just half assed play.  

That is not to say the coaching is perfect.  I would have kept Morgan and Davis going and just pounded them inside all day regardless of the defense. You can demoralize a team that way.  Granted, there was some piss poor post feeding, but I would have stuck with it.  

Not a technical difference, just UVA does a better job of pressuring the ball. Our guys get beat off the dribble too easily then it breaks down from there. We should be applying great ball pressure then sagging off away from the ball, anticipating a recovery ready to contest but we get beat, guys have to actually help instead of showing and recovering then our rotations quickly break down. 

That's just my observations put forth in a less than clear way. 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

While a number of people are jumping on the coaching, I saw a team that completely lacked energy out there.  There was some half assed defensive closeouts and completely lackadaisical ball control.  

The pack line is a work in progress.  I’d like to see how Archie’s pack line differs, if at all, from Tony Bennett’s.  I like Tony and think his defense is as tough as anybody’s in the country.  I don’t see our defense working in the same manner as Tony’s.  Tony really clogs things up and makes it difficult to move the toward the bucket.  While everyone is focusing on our close outs on shooters, I’m still puzzled by the fact that teams are able to move the ball too easily.  It may be a technical question, but I’d love to ask Archie how his version of pack line differs from Tony’s.  It’s pretty evident that at some level, you’re going to give up outside shots. That’s by design.  But with Tony’s version, the offense gets stymied trying to move down toward the bucket and so they pass it around on the outside until someone jacks up an ill advised shot.  My take is that we need to shut down the flow toward the bucket and then the outside shooting will end up more predictable to cover and more frustrated.  Right now, we are giving up easy ball movement and that leads to opponents setting up more comfortable outside shooting.  At the end of the day, we do not have veterans showing younger players.  It’s a new system, and the adjustment is significant.  Sorry that was so long, but that’s my observation. 

Bringing in Newkirk was a mistake.  It was bad roster management.  I’m sure he’s a good kid but he doesn’t complement our roster.  His decision making is erratic, as is his shooting.  He’s very delicate with his confidence which leads to his streakiness. He seems quick yet gets beaten on defense too easily.  I’m not bashing him as a human being but pointing out the obvious.  He’s not a net positive with his skill set.  Six turnovers by Rob. It’s absolutely ridiculous.  Some of it was just half assed play.  

That is not to say the coaching is perfect.  I would have kept Morgan and Davis going and just pounded them inside all day regardless of the defense. You can demoralize a team that way.  Granted, there was some piss poor post feeding, but I would have stuck with it.  

Nice alliteration   

But seriously, excellent post

[jefftheref]

If  you really look at this team we have no athletes or team speed. I love Hartman but his injuries and missed playing time has really affected  his lateral movement. Morgan is the closet thing we have to being an athlete. 

[BGleas]

Maybe ND just isn’t that great. They lost to Ball St. at home, they’re pulling out s squeaker to Dartmouth at home tonight. Maybe Saturday is who they are?

[5fouls]

2 hours ago, Jerry Lundergaard said:

Then maybe we all need to spend a little time with our wives/ significant others 😎

Or, in Bluegrass's case,sister and/or cousin.

[Ronzo44IU]

I think we would be a different team if Oladipo was in RoJo's place.  One cannot discount the negative effect a senior with no outward display of passion/leadership can have on a group of younger players. It is simply pathetic and there is no excuse for a person in his position to infuse that on a team sport.  I personally would have some respect if he just walked away now.

[Leathernecks]

2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Yeah I can look that up myself, but you've got nothing to show that ND just missed shots and played like crap as you asserted.  Even some video clips for good old anecdotal evidence would help your argument.  We already know you had an ND fan in your ear who of course thought they played like crap in a loss....

Here are links to every 3 they shot in case anybody wants to look at them again.

#1     #2     #3     #4     #5     #6     #7     #8     #9     #10     #11     #12     #13     #14     #15     #16     #17     #18     #19     #20     #21     #22     #23     #24

[madmax]

59 minutes ago, Ronzo44IU said:

I think we would be a different team if Oladipo was in RoJo's place.  One cannot discount the negative effect a senior with no outward display of passion/leadership can have on a group of younger players. It is simply pathetic and there is no excuse for a person in his position to infuse that on a team sport.  I personally would have some respect if he just walked away now.

really? Some people just aren’t leaders. Every team in America with at least a few seniors inevitably has some who aren’t leaders. Should they all just walk away from the team mid season?

 

FWIW Archie has consistently praised RoJo’s buy in and intensity on defense. But I guess what would he know?

[Ronzo44IU]

If you have to pinch someone to see if they have a pulse, then yes, every last one of them should quit.  Everything about his demeanor screams "i couldn't care less".

[BobSaccamanno]

2 hours ago, Jerry Lundergaard said:

Nice alliteration   

But seriously, excellent post

Nice catch and thanks.  I’d claim that I did it on purpose but it’d be a lie. 

[madmax]

2 hours ago, Ronzo44IU said:

If you have to pinch someone to see if they have a pulse, then yes, every last one of them should quit.  Everything about his demeanor screams "i couldn't care less".

Lol. Okay. That’s absolutely ridiculous. 

I guess that’s why RoJo was doing three a days, per CAM, the week after he was held scoreless. Clearly he couldn’t care less. It’s just so incredibly obvious.

give me a break.

[CapnRon]

Archie is stuck in the unfortunate position of having to win immediately for our impatient fanbase, and needing to call it a season, and make our young guys better by benching some of our unenthusiastic upperclassmen.  But until we have no chance of making the tourney, he won't do it, and he shouldn't yet.  But it's coming. 

[FW_Hoosier]

7 hours ago, madmax said:

Lol. Okay. That’s absolutely ridiculous. 

I guess that’s why RoJo was doing three a days, per CAM, the week after he was held scoreless. Clearly he couldn’t care less. It’s just so incredibly obvious.

give me a break.

Being a Chicago Bears fan, I see a lot of similarities between the situation with RoJo right now and Jay Cutler.  Cutler was always slammed by fans (including me) for looking like he didn’t care, playing sloppily, and being a bad leader.  But all we heard from the various coaches that he got fired was how hard he worked and how good of a teammate he was.

In the end, I think the fans were right about Cutler.  For an NFL quarterback, working hard and doing the right things in practice aren’t enough.  You have to be a vocal leader and set an example on the field for the rest of the team to follow.  You have to be a good decision maker.  Cutler never did any of that, and it hurt the team the entire time he was in Chicago.

It’s the same with RoJo.  Of course Archie is going to praise him to try to keep his confidence up, but when your senior lead guard pouts, repeatedly throws the ball away, and just gives off a general air of not giving a shit during games, it’s going to affect the whole team in a negative way no matter what he’s doing in practice.  This team will not be able to win consistently until he’s gone, because his sloppy play and piss poor attitude on the court sets the tone.

[KoB2011]

39 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Being a Chicago Bears fan, I see a lot of similarities between the situation with RoJo right now and Jay Cutler.  Cutler was always slammed by fans (including me) for looking like he didn’t care, playing sloppily, and being a bad leader.  But all we heard from the various coaches that he got fired was how hard he worked and how good of a teammate he was.

In the end, I think the fans were right about Cutler.  For an NFL quarterback, working hard and doing the right things in practice aren’t enough.  You have to be a vocal leader and set an example on the field for the rest of the team to follow.  You have to be a good decision maker.  Cutler never did any of that, and it hurt the team the entire time he was in Chicago.

It’s the same with RoJo.  Of course Archie is going to praise him to try to keep his confidence up, but when your senior lead guard pouts, repeatedly throws the ball away, and just gives off a general air of not giving a shit during games, it’s going to affect the whole team in a negative way no matter what he’s doing in practice.  This team will not be able to win consistently until he’s gone, because his sloppy play and piss poor attitude on the court sets the tone.

I think this is a good analogy.  

[Hoosierhoopster]

41 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Being a Chicago Bears fan, I see a lot of similarities between the situation with RoJo right now and Jay Cutler.  Cutler was always slammed by fans (including me) for looking like he didn’t care, playing sloppily, and being a bad leader.  But all we heard from the various coaches that he got fired was how hard he worked and how good of a teammate he was.

In the end, I think the fans were right about Cutler.  For an NFL quarterback, working hard and doing the right things in practice aren’t enough.  You have to be a vocal leader and set an example on the field for the rest of the team to follow.  You have to be a good decision maker.  Cutler never did any of that, and it hurt the team the entire time he was in Chicago.

It’s the same with RoJo.  Of course Archie is going to praise him to try to keep his confidence up, but when your senior lead guard pouts, repeatedly throws the ball away, and just gives off a general air of not giving a shit during games, it’s going to affect the whole team in a negative way no matter what he’s doing in practice.  This team will not be able to win consistently until he’s gone, because his sloppy play and piss poor attitude on the court sets the tone.

Disagree. We're talking about subjective perception of a player's impact based on, what, his body language? Watford. Kawhi Leanord. Tim Duncan. Etc. There are tons of guys who are exceptional contributors at the college and NBA level who don't wear their hearts on their sleeves. Victor is my favorite Hoosier, in part because of his incredible charisma and passion on the floor. But Watford is another, a quiet killer. Leanord as well. Rob's problem right now has nothing to do with his persona, and that has nothing to do with his leadership. Piss poor attitude? There's no reason to say that. His problem is that he is not hitting shots. 37% outside shooter last year, this year he's struggling, and he's making too many TO's. He's had some great games, and some real clunkers this year. Hopefully he gets more consistent, this team needs him to.