Jump to content

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, unexpectedflash said:

I get frustrated when people say this. Crean got 9 years. Sampson was fired for cheating and all the other things going on. Davis resigned and has even admitted that he wasn't ready at the time to be a coach at a big school. I'm confused what all these outside observers expected from us and how much more patient we should be. If Archie gets fired it's because he has not been able to win enough. Four years should be enough time for a good coach to show they're on the right trajectory which it doesn't look like is the case right now for Archie. 

Yeah, this "fired 5 coaches in a row" take is pretty terrible. RMK got fired. So do a lot of coaches at some point in their careers. It's part of the game. Outside of a really thin argument for keeping FCTC, none of those firings were unwarranted. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 5.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I guess I don't really know why people are freaking out. Dolson clearly stated that you wont hear from him again until they hire a coach. He doesn't owe us anything to be honest, so what are people ge

Why do people even say crap like this? What corroborated evidence do you have that we've been missing on so many coaches? What has been so embarrassing? That we haven't hired a new coach barely a week

Finally, someone said it.

Posted Images

1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

I might be missing something but if they keep him they pay his salary next year as well. So his salary plus the 3.475 million from the 10.35 would be the true amount.  Correct 

Yes, that is correct. I was just doing the buyout.

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I some what agree with you but maybe people from the outside can see things more clearly than we can.  I do agree the more changes we make the harder it will get a good candidate

People from the outside are not going to hold the program to the same expectation level.

"Your son got a B in that class, you should be happy...why you being so hard on him?"

Because he is an A student who is capable of more.  You may be happy about that or think it is good for the average kid, but for mine, that is underperforming for him.  And I have more of a vested interest in his success than some disinterested party.

Same logic applies here IMO.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, IUCrazy2 said:

People from the outside are not going to hold the program to the same expectation level.

"Your son got a B in that class, you should be happy...why you being so hard on him?"

Because he is an A student who is capable of more.  You may be happy about that or think it is good for the average kid, but for mine, that is underperforming for him.  And I have more of a vested interest in his success than some disinterested party.

Same logic applies here IMO.

Unless the kid is actually a "B" student. Parents think their kids are better that what they actually are all the time.

Right now, 2021, I don't know what kind of student the IU basketball program is. 

Can IU be an "A" student? Absolutely.

Is IU an "A" student right NOW? Debatable.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, JugRox said:

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-basketball-the-real-cost-of-archie-millers-buyout-would-be-tied-to-his-next-job/

Based on our review of the terms of Archie Miller’s contract, he is entitled to a roughly $10.35 million buyout if he is fired at the end of the 2020-21 season.  That is a large number that you have probably seen in the headlines recently.  If Indiana were to fire Miller after the 2021-22 season, the buyout figure can drop to approximately $3.475 million both because he would have just two years left on his contract, and the buyout clause only requires that IU pay Miller 50 percent of his total compensation still due under the contract if he is terminated without cause after March 31, 2022.

The Difference is $10.35 million - $3.475 million = $6.875 million

Just a FYI...

You/that article/quote are illustrating my point.

The buyout difference is 6.875 million as you and the article state, but he will be paid 3.475million to be the coach next year so it is misleading and only a cost difference of 3.475mil like I stated before.

image.png.c81483cf5136024d4ae4dccb2655cbb2.png

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, JugRox said:

Unless the kid is actually a "B" student. Parents think their kids are better that what they actually are all the time.

Right now, 2021, I don't know what kind of student the IU basketball program is. 

Can IU be an "A" student? Absolutely.

Is IU an "A" student right NOW? Debatable.

Ok, well let's be more real then.  Right now Archie has the program performing like a D or an F student.  We have seen that the program has been able to perform at an A level in the past.  We have seen guys like Mike Davis get it to perform at a B/C level.  Crean as well.  If you had a kid that was an A student and started slipping and you hired a tutor to get him back to good grade status and he instead went down from C to D or F, are you seriously thinking of letting that tutor continue to work with your kid?

"Boo hoo...we have not been an A lately."  So the ---- what.  We have been an A student over an extended period of time.  We don't have to settle for a D or F because outside people say, "well...ya know...hard to expect much more, it just takes time..."  Bull ----.  I was told when Miller was leading this program to 12 out of 13 losses that it takes 4 years.  Now we are at 4 years of declining performance and we need to give him just one more.  He cannot even recruit a kid and say he is going to be here for 4 years based on his contract.  To save his own --- he would have to perform at a level so far above what he has now that most would say that he realistically has no chance to do it.  So say he gets his 5th year, we go 21-12 and flame out the first round of the tournament.  Then what?  I say fire him after that.  But you know what the Mike Decourcy's of the world say, "well now he is improving so you need to give him more time..."  So now you got to extend the guy.  But everyone knows he is still hanging on by a thread, which impacts recruiting, which impacts the record.  So you keep your pitiful tutor around because you held out and your kid managed a C.  Wow.  Improvement.  But it really wasn't improvement.  You fired the last guy for C's and now after living through D and F you are celebrating what got the last guy fired.

"That's why you stick with guys."  No, that is why you fire people when they deserve to be fired instead of waiting around for a tiger to change its stripes.

Edited by IUCrazy2
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, JugRox said:

Unless the kid is actually a "B" student. Parents think their kids are better that what they actually are all the time.

Right now, 2021, I don't know what kind of student the IU basketball program is. 

Can IU be an "A" student? Absolutely.

Is IU an "A" student right NOW? Debatable.

Agree. The performance of this seasons IU basketball club this season has been ‘A’ failure. 😬 Sad but true.

But, its a balmy 50 degrees here in Btown. Clear blue sky. Springs on the horizon. Almost time to turn off the ol’tube and get our shine on outdoors. 👍

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, cybergates said:

You/that article/quote are illustrating my point.

The buyout difference is 6.875 million as you and the article state, but he will be paid 3.475million to be the coach next year so it is misleading and only a cost difference of 3.475mil like I stated before.

image.png.c81483cf5136024d4ae4dccb2655cbb2.png

 

 

But you still have to pay the new coach. And that's probably going to more than $3.47 mill.

Unless you get the new coach to work for free the first year.....   :)

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, IndySportsPartizan said:

Wow, this thread has picked up steam, don't even have time to read it all. 

 

Earlier, I posted about a buddy that was on the staff of the sweet 16 Valpo team, very close to the Drew's to this day. 

I texted him over the weekend, asked if he thought Scott would take the IU job if offered. 

His repose, "basketball is the religion in Indiana, I think he would". 

Would IU risk another Sampson?   It’s very possible Drew doesn’t get into any other trouble again (or get caught), but after being burned by Sampson, would they take someone like this?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, IndySportsPartizan said:

Wow, this thread has picked up steam, don't even have time to read it all. 

 

Earlier, I posted about a buddy that was on the staff of the sweet 16 Valpo team, very close to the Drew's to this day. 

I texted him over the weekend, asked if he thought Scott would take the IU job if offered. 

His repose, "basketball is the religion in Indiana, I think he would". 

Ehh not interested

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JugRox said:

But you still have to pay the new coach. And that's probably going to more than $3.47 mill.

Unless you get the new coach to work for free the first year.....   :)

 

Correct that's why I said...

1 hour ago, cybergates said:

Buyout is majorly overblown. 

It is a 3.45mil difference between firing him now and waiting until next year not including any offset. People keep forgetting that we will owe him 3.45mil next year whether he is the coach or not when they talk about 10.35mil now vs. 3.45mil later. He would only have to make 1.15mil/yr in 2022-2024 at a new job to have the buyout not exist.

The true/big cost of the change would be new coach's salary and potential buyout paid to get him.

image.png.47ba2f7af8316d219c189ecc69664e7b.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, IndySportsPartizan said:

Wow, this thread has picked up steam, don't even have time to read it all. 

 

Earlier, I posted about a buddy that was on the staff of the sweet 16 Valpo team, very close to the Drew's to this day. 

I texted him over the weekend, asked if he thought Scott would take the IU job if offered. 

His repose, "basketball is the religion in Indiana, I think he would". 

Leaving Bloomington...destination Waco.

 

tenor (6).gif

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Ok, well let's be more real then.  Right now Archie has the program performing like a D or an F student.  We have seen that the program has been able to perform at an A level in the past.  We have seen guys like Mike Davis get it to perform at a B/C level.  Crean as well.  If you had a kid that was an A student and started slipping and you hired a tutor to get him back to good grade status and he instead went down from C to D or F, are you seriously thinking of letting that tutor continue to work with your kid?

"Boo hoo...we have not been an A lately."  So the ---- what.  We have been an A student over an extended period of time.  We don't have to settle for a D or F because outside people say, "well...ya know...hard to expect much more, it just takes time..."  Bull ----.  I was told when Miller was leading this program to 12 out of 13 losses that it takes 4 years.  Now we are at 4 years of declining performance and we need to give him just one more.  He cannot even recruit a kid and say he is going to be here for 4 years based on his contract.  To save his own --- he would have to perform at a level so far above what he has now that most would say that he realistically has no chance to do it.  So say he gets his 5th year, we go 21-12 and flame out the first round of the tournament.  Then what?  I say fire him after that.  But you know what the Mike Decourcy's of the world say, "well now he is improving so you need to give him more time..."  So now you got to extend the guy.  But everyone knows he is still hanging on by a thread, which impacts recruiting, which impacts the record.  So you keep your pitiful tutor around because you held out and your kid managed a C.  Wow.  Improvement.  But it really wasn't improvement.  You fired the last guy for C's and now after living through D and F you are celebrating what got the last guy fired.

"That's why you stick with guys."  No, that is why you fire people when they deserve to be fired instead of waiting around for a tiger to change its stripes.

ah...I think Miller has failed. Fans think he has failed. The vast majority of the Media thinks he has failed. And I bet if you ask him, Miller thinks he has failed. That's not the point I was trying to make.

The point is how other coaches see the IU basketball program. People outside the program.

Right now 2021, there is no advantage for a coach to be at IU then Virginia, Texas Tech, Gonzaga, Ohio State, Michigan, etc....thats the point.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, JugRox said:

ah...I think Miller has failed. Fans think he has failed. The vast majority of the Media thinks he has failed. And I bet if you ask him, Miller thinks he has failed. That's not the point I was trying to make.

The point is how other coaches see the IU basketball program. People outside the program.

Right now 2021, there is no advantage for a coach to be at IU then Virginia, Texas Tech, Gonzaga, Ohio State, Michigan, etc....thats the point.

 

 

Disagree completely. I believe you are looking at this as “how successful have the teams on this list been vs IU, therefore they’re more attractive.”

Thats an oversimplification. If that was the case then teams like Bama were a dumpster to go to but lured a great coach. Why?

Because places like IU basketball and Bama FB have things at their core other programs don’t.

things like...

fanbases, national appeal name recognition, history, extremely fertile recruiting grounds, boosters that can get motivated to pony up, the chance to have name recognition historically in all of NCAAB...

If you take a program like Gonzaga and IU (for example) and God forbid Few was killed in a car wreck, and both jobs were open...I ASSURE YOU more candidates would want IU than Gonzaga and it wouldn’t even be close.

Like Archie even said when he took IU, that his brother told him not to leave for a program he couldn’t win it all at. That list isn’t HUGE.

Is IU what it used to be? No. But it is way more of a sleeping giant in the eyes of coaches than many realize. 
 

The day IU gets a dynamic coach the HS coach’s believe in, we will all see what I’m saying as far as recruiting. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BADGERVOL said:

Disagree completely. I believe you are looking at this as “how successful have the teams on this list been vs IU, therefore they’re more attractive.”

Thats an oversimplification. If that was the case then teams like Bama were a dumpster to go to but lured a great coach. Why?

Because places like IU basketball and Bama FB have things at their core other programs don’t.

things like...

fanbases, national appeal name recognition, history, extremely fertile recruiting grounds, boosters that can get motivated to pony up, the chance to have name recognition historically in all of NCAAB...

If you take a program like Gonzaga and IU (for example) and God forbid Few was killed in a car wreck, and both jobs were open...I ASSURE YOU more candidates would want IU than Gonzaga and it wouldn’t even be close.

Like Archie even said when he took IU, that his brother told him not to leave for a program he couldn’t win it all at. That list isn’t HUGE.

Is IU what it used to be? No. But it is way more of a sleeping giant in the eyes of coaches than many realize. 
 

The day IU gets a dynamic coach the HS coach’s believe in, we will all see what I’m saying as far as recruiting. 

We're Kentucky and North Carolina if we want to be.  It is there for the taking, all it needs is the right buy in from the right people.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Scott Drew seems to be a viable option. He could say no, but it would be absolutely dumb if Dolson doesn't reach out. Drew lived in Indiana, so he knows the value of being an IU coach. While IU has been down for most of 2 decades, it's still a sleeping giant. Simply speaking, success at Baylor is not even comparable to success at Indiana. There are many good programs other than bluebloods, but many coaches are still willing to take the blueblood jobs because they know the ceilings of bluebloods are much higher than others. 

I think at this point it would take a special, very ambitious coach to seriously consider IU job. We'll see how ambitious Drew is. He's been there for 18 years, so maybe it's time to change the scenery. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

We're Kentucky and North Carolina if we want to be.  It is there for the taking, all it needs is the right buy in from the right people.

I would say “yes if...”

My only caveat is our Administration. IF the right coach who could do it doesn’t think the administration is all in, then that candidate won’t take it.

And that is a HUGE doubt for me as a fan.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, addictedtoIU said:

Scott Drew seems to be a viable option. He could say no, but it would be absolutely dumb if Dolson doesn't reach out. Drew lived in Indiana, so he knows the value of being an IU coach. While IU has been down for most of 2 decades, it's still a sleeping giant. Simply speaking, success at Baylor is not even comparable to success at Indiana. There are many good programs other than bluebloods, but many coaches are still willing to take the blueblood jobs because they know the ceilings of bluebloods are much higher than others. 

I think at this point it would take a special, very ambitious coach to seriously consider IU job. We'll see how ambitious Drew is. He's been there for 18 years, so maybe it's time to change the scenery. 

Yea takes a very confident coach with thick skin. But it would take that to win a title anyway. So...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, addictedtoIU said:

Scott Drew seems to be a viable option. He could say no, but it would be absolutely dumb if Dolson doesn't reach out. Drew lived in Indiana, so he knows the value of being an IU coach. While IU has been down for most of 2 decades, it's still a sleeping giant. Simply speaking, success at Baylor is not even comparable to success at Indiana. There are many good programs other than bluebloods, but many coaches are still willing to take the blueblood jobs because they know the ceilings of bluebloods are much higher than others. 

I think at this point it would take a special, very ambitious coach to seriously consider IU job. We'll see how ambitious Drew is. He's been there for 18 years, so maybe it's time to change the scenery. 

He took over after one of the biggest scandals in NCAA history at Baylor so he must be pretty confident in his abilities based off that. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...