KoB2011

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/somebody-break-up-the-nbas-eastern-conference/?ex_cid=538twitter

How 'bout those Celtics?

Obviously it's early and he didn't get taken in the lottery, but I remember arguing with folks that his floor was an elite defender who could hit the three and finish at the rim and therefore he was an incredibly safe lottery pick i.e. wasn't going to be anything worse than a contributor for a long time. That's looking like a good call thus far. Really, really wish the Pacers had taken him.

Wish the Pacers had taken OG. They need a 3 to fit long term, but Vic, OG, Sabonis and Turner would've been a great young core.

OG with a strong game in his first start. I know some doubted his decision, but really signs are that he made the right decision to leave. He may end up the steal of the draft.

I think there's two facets to this. Without rehashing the PG debate, surely we can agree he isn't at the level of those guys? The second if that PG tends to show up the refs when he doesn't get a call, human nature says you're not going to get more calls after showing someone up. That's just my perspective. I know other guys whine too, it just seemed like PG did it a lot more -- maybe because he got calls less than the other guys though (and I do agree with you on that).

Y'all are making me wonder if I shouldn't read more fiction. I tend to be drawn toward political and religious non-fiction books.

What is everyone's favorite book? Are you a fan of fiction or non-fiction? Anyone read anything good lately?

I hear you on the electronics issue with Audi. I had one with a Q5 just after the warranty ended a few years ago. I don't typically keep cars more than a few years so if I get a CPO with 4-5 years left on warranty I should be covered for the life of my ownership.

They actually brought back the RS5 this year and an RS3 as well. I'm looking at something in the 1-2 year CPO range to maximize warranty if I got the Audi route. RS7 is too pricey for me currently and the RS5's I could probably afford will be higher mileage. Trying to figure out if I will mind the size of a 3 or not, my wife had an A3 when they had just brought it back and it was a fun ride. If I could find a gently used RS3 I'd jump on it, but that's not an easy task. I may be content with an S3 or an S4. 90% of my time in the car will be commuting so it's not like I really need the extra performance, I do want it though. But the Merc... Love the C class after the upgrade in '15. If I could snag the AMG lite/C43 I'd be like a kid in a candy shop. It can't haul like your C63, but it's a hell of a car all the same. I still love Bimmer, but the 3 series needs an upgrade. Great driving cars, but they're very dated compared to Audi and Merc.

Don't worry, the next eclipse goes through Indy and Bloomington and is in the day of the national title game. We got this.

Looking at that or the four rings. Four Rings are a nice blend of enthusiasm and comfort.

We do, however, share ex-wives. And by share, I mean numbers three, four and seven are with me right now.

Pacers with a double digits win in Cleveland on the second night of a back to back. Vic and Sabonis combine for 38/14/13. LBJ cut it to 5 then Vic took over to close it out. Vic is very clearly thriving as a leader and a closer. Go Vic!

And yes, I enjoy your posts too my man. Even those I disagree with about PG and cars. I've actually been looking hard at a move to the dark side in cars recently. I think we could settle a lot of the disagreement if we could just sit down and have a beer in real life. Then go drive your AMG.

I guess I've never really discussed what he's done, it isn't relevant to what he is now in my mind. Can you explain why it is? There's stats that show him out of the top 20 all together. @5fouls posted them on 247 and you got very upset IIRC. One of them is PER. Again, this should be simple, rank the NBA players. Stop when you get to PG so we can have an actual discussion and not a strawman. You say he is a clear top 10 guy and elite but consistently refuse to give us a comparison to prove that out. If you can't simply say the guys PG is better than then I'll assume it's because you know he isn't better than as many guys as you'd like for us to believe.

I think the biggest problem with the conversation is you to believe what he did the two years before the injury are relevant to the player he is today. Besides that being a long time ago, it was a major injury ago. Who cares of John Wall or KAT don't have better numbers in 2013? Both are better now. I actually just named a list of players a few days ago I'd put in front of PG and a list of players he'd fall somewhere in. You didn't respond to that and you continue to refuse to give a list so you can argue straw men. If you want a real discussion, tell us your top 10 so we can see who you are leaving out in favor of PG and have a real discussion. That seems incredibly simple so why hasn't it happened?

Spot on. The team fell off WITH Paul George on the team for two more seasons. Especially last year, many thought they'd compete for a top 4 seed and they flopped. The reason David West wanted out wasn't Larry Bird, it's who was left on the team.

Essentially, you're saying that those two PG teams are better than a lot of the 90's teams just because the 90's teams had a much tougher road. That's not how I evaluate how good a team is personally, but you do you man.

I don't think it's bashing to point out that the Eastern Conference was really, really bad during those years. I don't think it's unfair to point out the division was the worst in the NBA, sans the Pacers, during those years. Could PG have risen to the occasion if he'd had a real chance? Maybe, probably, but we don't know. Andrew Luck has won 3 division titles and made an AFC championship game, I don't think he's accomplished much either. If you can't look at the road someone has to take to do that and factor it in to the level of accomplishment I'm not sure we are having the same discussion.

Sure, there are some bad voices in Indy media. There are also some good, plugged into the Pacers voices that felt that way too. PG has some very obvious talent. I'd argue all day that his talent far exceeds what you actually get, so yes he has intangibles. That said, the fact that he has never hit a game winner says something. I'm going to throw my BS flag on him being on some of the best Pacers teams ever. Those couple years were very good, but they weren't anything stand out from what we had in the 90's and until the fight in the 2000's. They weren't better than the 70's. They just happened to be in a very weak conference. Not trying to bash PG, but when was he ever the reason the Pacers won anything in the playoffs?

That's a fair response. I'm not sure I've seen anyone say PG is out of the top 20 though, so maybe the hate isn't all that hateful?

I don't really care if you hate on the Pacers or not. Here are facts I think we can all agree to: You have a real disdain for Larry Bird and color your Pacers opinion based on thinking everything he did was bad. You group Paul George in a category very few would (nationally, locally and anywhere inbetween) with elite players. He's top 20, maybe top 15 but not elite like a clear top ten guy such as Curry, Leonard, Durant, James, Harden, Westbrook or Davis. Paul George is no longer on the Pacers and you think that loss is on par with one of those other guys changing teams. From my perspective, the combination of this team largely being a result of Larry Bird and Paul George leaving does color your perspective on the Pacers quite a bit. Is it possible Victor Oladipo, who coming out of college would've universally been considered the better prospect between he and PG, is closer to PG than you are willing to admit? And that whatever difference there is in the talent is made up for by their attitude? We can even say PG had a terrible attitude that impacted the team 100% because of Bird, but that doesn't change what it was and it doesn't change the Vic absolutely loves being here and being a key part of this team. I know you think I'm biased against PG, but I'm the one who ranks him right about where he is considered by most experts and you're the one who has him among the elite group of players that are annual MVP candidates. I get it, we're talking about maybe your favorite guy in the NBA and your least favorite guy, that makes it hard to take emotion out of it.

I'm sure you're being hyperbolic, but it isn't 10 times. Parker is the worst of those four at this point in his career. Turner is an All-Star level player this year. Robinson is a very nice piece. Leonard is the best, clearly, but let's not act like the Pacers aren't missing two starters.