Hoosierhoopster

CAM is not on any kind of hot seat. He needs to win this season more for program momentum and recruiting, but he doesn’t need to win right away out of the gate, and he’s not going anywhere either.

Not sure about the win early point. CAM is not on the hot seat, any such talk is complete BS. And we’re not talking about not winning out in the season, we’re talking early games. Agree on positional switching and RE how our guards have played but it’s think it’s more about having multiple ball handlers than running point — that’s been the objective, 3 handlers.

All fair for discussion. I personally think CAM's approach -- the get older, play young, talented frosh less than most teams would (I think that's fact) in favor of veteran experienced players -- cuts both ways. We're a good team now, think that's clear. That is absolutely at least in part because of CAM's approach, building on vet experience and emphasizing, for the most part, the vets (Hunter kind of in the middle here though). But contrast, for example, how Izzo brings his teams along going into a season -- not always but often, MSU struggles early, including losing to non-Div I teams, etc., because he's working in the young talent, and by early to mid-conf play, they're clicking and playing typical MSU ball. Think Izzo would sit Lander on the bench? I doubt it, and, generally, as talented as Lander is -- and he's already shown flashes of on-court brilliance -- I want him playing more and getting his college game legs under him. That could cause an early loss or two. No question Rob is the steadier point right now, but how might Lander help us come say February? If he's been barely playing, not much. So whether CAM's approach, so far, is a good or not so good thing remains to be seen, but I don't believe in just accepting that because a player isn't playing as much, that means they're not showing enough or talented enough. This also relates to my thinking on Hunter -- right or wrong -- I don't like the way CAM is under-utilizing him. We know, from CAM's mouth, he's one of the 3 best shooters on the team. We know he finished last year shooting North of 40%. I know I know, Defense, but for Christ's sake we will need scoring in B1G play. Then there's the recruiting side and potential fallout of leaving a 5 star sitting on the bench. How many #1 - ranked or otherwise elite points do you think are good coming into a school where the coach sits guys like that on the bench? Playing time is a huge part of recruiting.

Meh. PER again, take with grain of salt. His upside and talent are beyond (reasonable) question. The question is not what his "PER" is now, it's what the team and coach can do to get to his anticipated contributions to the team sooner rather than later. That's debatable. I'm on the side of getting the "Five Star" #1-ranked point guard playing time, especially in the early part of the schedule, to get him ready sooner. Most teams would.

Butler has a long history of locker room fights and discontent with teammates and media. That’s reality. PG had no issues for many years in IN. That’s reality. Then things went South in IN and PG started making clear he wanted out, that’s also reality. I don’t blame him given the situation in IN and he wanted to go back to his home in LA and family - but there’s another side to that story also reality. Butler is doing great now and by al accounts is now a great teammate. Also reality. That’s it for me

Lander isn’t ready to start (imo), but he has a higher upside than Rob and the more he plays the better he will get and the faster he’ll get there. He is an extreme talent. Without going into who should start over whom, IowaHoosierFan’s position isn’t crazy. Rob is a strong defender and, imo, brings that steady veteran floor leadership we need on the floor, along with an improved deep shot — that he doesn’t go for enough and that he hasn’t shown consistently yet - and I want him out there, but Lander absolutely, imo, needs more floor time and run than he’s being given. CAM’s approach can be holding him back, just because CAM is limiting him doesn’t make it right. And on his D he has actually shown good D, he doesn’t get beaten often, his defensive positioning is sound. He’s just not acclimated to the speed and timing of the college game. He will get there, we’re talking the top ranked point in his class. TO’s are part of that.

Lol except PG didn’t force himself off, Bird traded or lost every single player he played with then forced him to play the 4 but nice try. Of F it, I can’t even read the board with another PG jibe. Butler had a fantastic year, great to see him mature and find a great situation in Miami

I’m not really following where you’re going here. Again I wasn’t taking a swipe at Butler though again I think he was basically a malcontent on prior teams, before Philly. As to whether guys want to fight long term with their teams, or chase a ring somewhere that’s an individual choice. Was there something wrong with Reggie for playing 18 years with the Pacers? Or is there something wrong with Dame for being loyal to the Blazers, and laughing at the way Durant ran to the team that beat him to get a ring in GS? No. But there’s also nothing wrong imo with guys leaving bad organizations, or managers / management who screw up the teams (eg, Bird), or who need a better fit, or who are looking for better pay etc.

It's not really a swipe at Butler -- it's that Butler has jumped to numerous teams now. Count the teams. I don't buy into your view of Butler -- he has been a cancer but has matured. And yes, he is chasing a ring in his latest jump to Miami. However, again, I didn't mean it as a swipe at Butler, and definitely no faulting his leaving Philli for Miami, Miami is a better organization than Philli and Miami is clearly built better a a team. As to whether he'll be surrounded by championship talent, who knows? The Bucks have had the best record in the East two years running, right? They were clearly a step away from the championship last year, but just came up short. This year Giannis himself got exposed for lack of an improved jumper, and he needs to work on that, and the Bucks got exposed because they got worse, not better, but still good enough to rack up the best regular season record.

Some guys walk to the beat of their own drum, always thought Giannis was one of those guys. He's no Butler.

I tended to think he would stay, but of course wasn't sure. He has always seemed like a guy like a Dirk or Duncan or for even a Dame who wanted to stick it out.

Scott it's preseason, who wins is completely meaningless, but how the team shoots matters.

But they hit over 40 percent from deep tonight

I bet the MD teams of the 70s and 80s were better!

Just imagine Harden joining that group. Maybe they could throw a second ball out on the floor

Great to see him in the League. He’s fundamentally excellent. He’s been overcoming the limitations that most thought would keep him from making it. You can be a solid NBA play on strong fundamentals, a great understanding of the game, and effort

Yeah saw that, not exactly a strong defensive effort

And post on HSN ....

Good points Gleas - and a coach’s persona can definitely affect how and when a team shoots. That was part of RMK’s later tenure teams’ downfall for example. The ball movement became swing it around the perimeter until the end of shot clock because guys were scared to shoot because Knight would scream and then yank them when they missed. CAM’s recruiting so far is, IMO, more focused on D and toughness than shooting — but Leal is an example of recruiting shooting. His scouting was high level shooter with good range who will eventually start. He is a very good shooter. But I do think CAM’s focus on D and ball handling first is why you see, for example, Hunter on the bench — when we need shooting on the floor, and this is bothering me. We lost the last game for lack of shooting. We had shooting but CAM left Galloway out there and Hunter on the bench. Bad decision / style imo.

Having similar discussion in other threads but my concern, so far, is not with the players but with CAM as to how and to what extent he de-emphasizes outside shooting. I generally believe in CAM and see the team starting to show his toughness / grit, but I do not like the way he leaves Hunter in the bench and focuses more on the idea of limiting TO’s to create offense than shooting. I don’t see guys forgetting how to shoot, I see shooting not getting the kind of emphasis I think it should

Yep. Said that when he made the move. He was betting on himself, for the money, but he bet on himself on the team with terrible management and front office.

He’s not listed on nba.com, doesn’t appear to be.

I can’t stand Harden but in fairness he is an MVP

You’re welcome to that opinion but you can’t name but a couple or so guys who have done what he’s done on both sides of the ball. I’m no longer sold on Giannis in that top group btw. He was badly exposed in this past playoffs. He is a freak of nature and definitely top 10, but he’s a weak shooter, he hasn’t improved that aspect of his game. Curry is fantastic, but a weak defender, they have to hide him on D. Harden? pretty much everyone puts him in the top 10, incredible scorer, but another lightweight defensively, and his playoff record? Most had Embiid in the top 10. Now? Hmm. Guys clearly on another level to me — LBJ, Durant, Kawhi, AD, Curry, Doncic (potential as best player). After that it gets really subjective imo. Not many really had Dame or Jocic top 10 before this season now many do. Dame is in my book. So when PG finished the no. 2 overall scorer, and in the top 3 for MVP and defensive MVP in the same season, if you don’t then consider him top ten to me is kind of silly. But he just had a bad year and doesn’t belong in that top 10 right now, just a year later, that’s completely fair - but don’t be shocked if he tears it up this year

No argument he puts his foot in his mouth. But I could pull up multiple stupid comments from LBJ et al but you guys don’t slam him because you like to poke at PG. come on now you know it’s true 🤣