Hoosierhoopster

^^ I don't know, he gave Troy a contract with Houston. It's just that he's a young player on a loaded team that is probably headed for a showdown with GS in the West Conf Finals. Playing time in the G League is a good thing, and great to see he is excelling. 7 3's!

But then the Pacers' playoff chances just got better -- http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22263710/washington-wizards-star-john-wall-undergo-knee-procedure

It's not that it's a lost art, it's that it's a less efficient shot and the League is moving away from it, particularly the long 2. The bank shot is a lost art, but there are multiple players still shooting 2's (DeRozan, etc.), while they're shooting less of them and especially the long 2.

I can't tell if this is better or worse for the Pistons, but I suspect it will be better. I'm not much of a Griffin fan (for those who don't like complainers, he's the #1 complainer in the League, and his behavioral issues are more than well documented -- how many guys have actually punched an assistant coach??), but pairing him with Drummond is a good move. He is better than Tobias Harris -- when healthy (and his health is never guaranteed, so that's another question mark), and as much as I like Bradely he wasn't playing great this season. This also may have the Pistons playing more inspired ball. I suspect the Pacers' playoff hopes did just get tougher, not easier, but there are reasons to see it both ways. Decent article on the trade here - http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22258759/zach-lowe-blake-griffin-trade-future-la-clippers-detroit-pistons

What are you talking about, I mean, tonight Westbrook took 33 shots, twice as many as anyone else on the team.... Oh wait

It's too bad you can't face reality

Paul George replacing D Cousin on team LeBron, All Star Game. https://sportsnaut.com/2018/01/paul-george-replacing-demarcus-cousins-nba-star-game/

Could be -- but then also can't look at those comments in a vacuum. He was all about the Pacers, then Bird traded away and lost literally every single teammate he had, and ultimately brought in Teague, among others, at best, a mistake. Put yourself in his shoes for a minute, how much love do you have for a team that trades away (or loses, in the case of West, due to Bird's idiotic treatment of Hibbert) every one of your teammates, and "builds" a worse team? Pritchard has been doing great - now that Bird is gone. I don't really know if PG is capable of being a good leader, he may not be, but when making judgments, it's good to consider the circumstances.

I think you took me a little too seriously, that was tongue in cheek. K Thompson is clearly an outstanding player, any team would love to have him. Outside of kidding around, I'm just saying you can think Thompson can do what PG has done, but that's still speculation, as he's only been a second man, never a first.

It was after they lost to OKC. What PG has proven that Klay hasn't? Leading a team as the number one option and franchise player on both sides of the ball. There is literally no one in the League who will call Klay T a franchise player, because he isn't and has never been. Could he be, who knows? Klay came through on the biggest stage as a secondary player, playing with the MVP, and now two of them, that's entirely different. It's kind of silly to say Klay has proved what PG hasn't, isn't it?

Just a quick follow up, Brooks had something to say about PG: "He is one of the best in the league," Brooks said following the Wizards' 121-112 loss to the Thunder on Thursday, according to ESPN.com's Royce Young. "Guarding anyone on the floor is what makes him, well, not an All-Star, but we all know he is. He's the best two-way player in basketball." http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2756061-scott-brooks-says-paul-george-is-best-2-way-player-in-basketball Article goes on -- Through Thursday night's win over the Wizards—the Thunder's sixth straight—George is averaging 20.9 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3.0 assists and a league-leading 2.2 steals per game. The 27-year-old is also in the midst of shooting a career-best 41.7 percent from three. On top of that, George ranks first among all players in deflections per game (4.4) and fourth in loose balls recovered (1.7 per game). "There's a lot of players in the league that are great offensive players, but they're not great defensive players," Thunder head coach Billy Donovan said, according to the Associated Press' Cliff Brunt. "I think arguably, it would be hard to make a case either way of what end of the floor he's better on, offense or defense, because he's that special." Again fair points, but to me PG has proven what K Thompson can only be speculated to do.

Good discussion. And yes, no doubt Klay T is an exceptional 2-guard.

I think I agree with that, although with LeBron it's awfully close. He doesn't win that last title without Kyrie's outstanding Game 7, but then wasn't that the series when he led in basically every box category? Anyway, as to PG and Klay I was talking about the "primary player," the best player who leads the team. Klay's never been that, and at best it's an assumption that he could do it. It's one thing to be the player leading the team that the other team largely keys on, it's another to be shooting next to Curry, and now also Durant. Just having those guys on the floor creates tremendous space. Could Klay have been the Man for the Pacers and gone head to head with LeBron? I don't think so.

Fair debate there. Whether PG can be the primary player on a championship team is a question -- I think he could be, with the right players around him. He's flat out dominated in the playoffs, as the best player on the floor in various series (remember that Toronto series?). He's not LeBron, but then no one else is either. On the other hand, he may be that Pippin like player -- Pippin didn't and may not have been able to lead a team to a championship, but what a player he was. On Klay, again, he's only been a #2. He certainly helped GS win a title, but he didn't "win" it, he helped.

That is certainly fair Gleas. My thing with Klay is that he has never been the primary option, never a franchise player, never led his team -- he's always been second, or now third, to a League MVP -- Curry and now Durant. Could he be as productive, on both sides of the ball, if he didn't have those guys? I don't know, I don't think so (he's often inconsistent, one big game followed by duds), but I haven't seen it. With PG, we've seen him be the star and on both sides of the ball and with other strong players as well as with a weak cast.

I'd say that he was an above-average defender the past two years -- for that matter, he finished 7th overall in the League in defensive win shares in 2015-16. That's not an "average defender." He also finished 2015-16 9th in steals per game. But to your point, much like Kawhi, his overall defensive contribution went down as his lead role increased -- it's damn hard to be at the top of the NBA on both sides of the ball. So few fit that description. What we're seeing now is that, when PG is not relied upon to lead the team as the number one offensive option and to put up high scoring every night, he is able to lead the team, and the League, defensively. Again, go back over Kawhi's defensive and offensive production for the years when he was second or third offensively to Duncan and Parker, and then when he became the number one offensive option, you'll see a similar trajectory. (I'm not saying PG is better than Kawhi, to me, injury aside, Kawhi is a top 3 player.) Here's the thing, there are so few guys in the NBA who are elite on both sides of the ball, and most recognize that PG is, along with a few, Kawhi, Butler, and LeBron's just in a class by himself. You can name a couple other guys, but not many. This is what I loved about Vic as a Hoosier -- a monster two-way player. Same for OG. These are the kind of players I really like, and now Vic is playing himself into the discussion of being one of those top two-way guys in the NBA (I'm thrilled for it). PG may not be an elite "leader," that's certainly debatable, but in fairness and with lots of respect to you -- I have a lot of respect for you -- I don't think it's fair to say he's not elite. His production shows that he is, on both sides of the ball, and most NBA players recognize him as such. He's frankly killing it this year, he's just not regularly scoring 25-plus because he's playing next to Mr. dominate ball useage, and Carmelo. Thnk you'll also see, as he does every playoffs, he'll also be dominant in the playoffs. This Thunder team is built for the playoffs -- wasn't sure if they'd mesh, but they seem to have finally gotten there.

1. Irrelevant, we're talking about this year. Draymond has not had an all star year, this year, and he's never led a team, which is really obvious. 2. Ironic, as PG has been 1st in the NBA in defensive win shares (2012), Draymond has never been 1st, and PG is -- currently -- 4th overall in defensive rating, and Draymond isn't even ranked this year. Draymond hasn't done jack this year. Leaving it here.

KOB your hatred of PG is now well documented, my friend. You're just going to continue to ignore how productive he is on both sides of the ball, as you have continuously ignored how strong he is defensively, saying several times in this thread that he just wasn't the same player defensively after his injury. Come on man, he's one of the League's premier players on both sides of the ball. As a mod I'm going to back out of this conversation, because it isn't going anywhere other than nitpicking and I don't want to come across as annoyed. Enjoy Vic on the P's, that's turning out really nicely.

Right the reserves were selected by the head coaches so my comments on Curry were off, but the idea that Draymond (or Klay) is better than PG is just wack. Draymond is by no stretch of the imagination a lead guy (nor is Klay), he does what he does by playing with and behind Curry et al. He's not a franchise player, he's a 3rd to 4th option player, and again he hasn't done jack this season. I really, really don't get the continuing need to try to belittle PG and pointedly ignore what he does in some kind of self-congratulatory back slap instead of just enjoying what a great season Vic is having and how well that has worked out. I could quote the multitude of articles recognizing what PG is doing this season, or quote more stats, and that he was snubbed, but I guess all of that would just get ignored along with the fact that he's very much in the running for defensive MVP and having a stellar season all around. For the heck of it, here's one of many -- . Paul George Oklahoma City might have one bright star, but George has been nothing short of brilliant, especially on defense. PG13 leads the NBA at 4.4 deflections per game and has racked up 93 steals on the season — tied with Russell Westbrook for another league-best. He’s also shooting threes at a high clip, playing off the ball when Westbrook is running the show, and running the offense himself at times, too. The rest of the All-Stars are lucky he didn’t make the game because they weren’t scoring much on him. https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/1/23/16924024/2018-nba-all-star-game-roster-snubs-paul-george-andre-drummound-lou-williams-chris-paul-ben-simmons It's good to see Lillard finally get in -- if he wasn't picked this year he would've been the first player in NBA history to average 25 ppg I think it was 3 years in a row and not make it -- and he vocally complained about not getting picked, so the coaches picked him, lol. Glad Vic made it, knew he would, which, again, he really has PG to thank for, that's the real irony. He needed to get away from the Thunder and Westbrook and become the lead guard taking the most shots, on a team that fit with his game, and he found that, clearly, with the P's. Good for him.

Oh come on guys. You know I said above, several times, that the irony of PG's trade was that, playing with Westbrook, he might not get selected, right? You guys aren't being petty, are you? Lol guys, I've been going out of my way to praise Vic and you guys get snarky? (And as I also said above, expected Vic to make the All Star reserves, totally deserved). Pretty much everyone outside Pacers fans who didn't like PG recognize he was snubbed, but that's sort of besides the point. Let's see, Western Conf coaches, and Curry as captain, get to pick. Let's see, there are 4 GS players on the West "All Star" team -- they added Draymond, who hasn't done jack this season, and Klay, because, golly, they're on the Warriors. Think GS deserves 4 guys? Of course not. PG is a current defensive MVP candidate, he's 5th in the League in 3-pointers made, 14th in 3-point percentage, 2nd in total steals (to Westbrook), 2nd in steals per game (by a hair, has been 1st all year), and so on. His points are down only because he's playing with Westbrook. I kind of like Westbrook's take, though -- http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22194310/russell-westbrook-baffled-oklahoma-city-thunder-teammate-paul-george-being-left-all-star-reserves ""Unbelievable. I think it's just outrageous, in my opinion," Westbrook said, demonstrably closing his eyes and shaking his head. "I don't know who else made the team but got four people from one team, you've got guys complaining about getting snubbed until they get in, you've got guys just talking about it all the time." As this guy notes, if PG was in the East, he'd be playing in the All Star game: Now in the Western Conference, George was not able to make the ASG for the third straight season. As expected now that he's playing with Russell Westbrook and Carmelo Anthony, he's not putting up quite the numbers he has in the past, but he's still having a very solid season. He's getting over 20 points a night, is 12th in the league in 3-point percentage (42.9), and has been a big part of the Thunder's stout defense. It is a bit humorous that Victor Oladipo made the ASG, while PG-13 did not, but if George was in the East, he'd be playing in this game. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-all-star-game-2018-paul-george-and-andre-drummond-headline-the-top-snubs/ Which is kind of obvious, right? Go Vic -- who has George to thank for his first All Star appearance.

It's not -- like I said, still a good thing!

Yeah Pop is the best, this game did involve a lineup switch up though, Parker off the bench. Spurs' starting group of Gasol, Aldridge, Anderson, Murray, Green is not exactly the Spurs best. Again though anytime you win in San Antonio is still good.

Not that it's not a good thing, but no Kawhi or Ginobli.

^^ Vic is absolutely an all star (reserve) this year, and last I checked was third in voting among East Conf guards. I think it's always been agreed he'd have a legit shot at the allstar game with the Pacers. The question about him, in joining the P's, was more about whether he could raise his game to become one of the elite (top 25 or better) players in the League. He was nowhere near that discussion last year, but as of right now, he looks to be doing just that, which, particularly considering his play with the Thunder last season, is outstanding. See my post above about how well both are doing . Vic is killing it with the P's -- and that really reflects how much better he is as the lead, on-the-ball guard, as opposed to trying to play off ball next to a superstar. He was not good next to Westbrook, that was largely a failure of an experiment (and in my view also reflects poorly on Westbrook and his crazy useage percentages). But now he's playing brilliant ball as the lead guy. Another relevant point here -- Teague is gone. The Teague experiment with the P's also was a failure, his ball dominant play did not help the P's, or PG (and they had chemistry issues). This isn't the team PG played with, and it's much better suited to Vic's game. Meanwhile PG is playing great ball with the Thunder, and is complimenting Westbrook, allowing for a big three game, again emphasizing his defensive game, and in the discussion as one of the best two-way players in the League, again. Some irony in that could cost him an all star spot in the West (though as of now he appears to be in, particularly considering he's leading the League in steals, 3rd in defensive win shares and is in the running for defensive MVP, while in the top 5 in 3-pointers and at 43%). Win win all around, at this point.