Hoosierhoopster

Fair enough -- clarifying: All Star games are picked by conference -- the conference you are in matters. The best players are collectively, hands down, in the West. The competition for all star spots in the West is much steeper -- it just is, because of how they pick the All Star teams. They also do not pick players 1-15, they pick by position. What position you are matters as to whether or not you are picked for the All Star game, because they pick by position. Then there's the simple fact that the All Star game is not picked by who is the best player, 1-15 or otherwise, it is a popularity contest, with fans getting the lion share of the share of a player's vote, followed up (up to this season) by media, and then for non-starters, coaches. This year it's fans, media and players, I don't recall the breakdown, but it will continue to be largely a popularity contest. Reggie made 5 All Star games in 18 years. Think about that. Then if you want to look on a pure star/talent basis for selecting small forwards, in the West it pretty clearly goes 1) Durant, 2) Kawhii, and the All Star game selections are made as "forwards," not just small forwards, so then you include in that top group players like Anthony Davis, Marc Gasol, Draymond, etc. But for whatever it matters -- and as much as I personally like PG as a player while others on here have some kind of ax to grind on him -- I am far from alone in considering him one of the top players and forward in the League. Here's a couple: 1) who are the top 5 SF's in the League, Sept. 2017, #5: PG; https://www.isportsweb.com/2017/09/27/who-are-the-top-5-small-forwards-in-the-nba/ -- this ranking, which is hard to dispute at this point, goes 1. LeBron, 2. Durant, 3. Greek Freak (though he's not really a 3), 4. Kawhi (I'd put him 2 or 3), and 5. PG; 2) Hollinger's NBA player stats 2017-18, top 5 PER by SF's, PG#4 http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sf/league/west ; 3) another small forward ranking placing PG as #4, http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2701554-nba-position-power-rankings-end-of-regular-season-edition-small-forwards ; I could go on, but as this thread has demonstrated,, what's the point, stats and what he's demonstrated for years are just ignored. Regardless, PG is clearly not having a great year, so far. He had two exceptional games when Carmelo was out (golly, wonder why), and now that Melo is back and it's all iso ball again, he's had an up and down couple of games and most recently a horrible shooting game (though he had 10 assists). It's going to be an interesting year for PG, and for that matter Melo. They, along with Westbrook, had better go away from iso ball, or they're going to be at best mediocre, and could actually miss the playoffs. Btw, they just dominated Golden State, in a game where all three played fantastic ball. That's the team they're capable of being. But we'll see if they get it together regularly, and whether PG can adapt to playing with ridiculously iso-ball domineering Melo (who everyone, but Melo, recognizes he needs to cut the iso ball stuff), or not. Right now, he's not an all star this year, and it's going to be difficult for him to get there playing second to Westbrook, but judging him on his current numbers, at the 1/4 way mark on the season, is pointless.

1) PG is not a guard, he's a small forward (and that is always how he is selected for all star games). 2) There is a sum total zero basis/metrics to put Hayward ahead of PG, except of course that you like Hayward 3) All stars are selected by conference, as Gleas noted (and otherwise as much as I like him, Vic wouldn't stand a chance, as a guard). Guys like D Lillard get screwed and cheated out of the All Star game every year, because the West guard group is so stacked. And he really got hosed last season. 4) John Wall is not having a great year, so far, and the weakness in his game continues to be shooting. As good as he is, he has not developed a consistent shot, and it hurts the Wiz. Beal actually may be the better player at this point (his weakness is staying healthy). and 5) I am done participating in dealing with the continuing PG bashing. I don't get the need.

Now that is cool. I can't watch this game, would love to hear how they did guarding each other.

Good question.

This is an objective viewpoint, and fair, not skewed by the Pacer fan or the fan who for whatever reason did not like PG. Taking it by analogy, IU looked great when they beat KU last year, started strong. Rob looked fantastic for 50% of the year. CuJo was a beast in the KU game. It's a season, you don't draw crazy comparisons to veteran NBA allstars and franchise players based on less than 1/4 of the season and ignoring how a player struggled over a full year coming in and has never been considered better than a top 50 player. I'm a huge Vic fan. But a little perspective. Give him the time to prove himself over the course of the season and against the elite players who the teams will start putting on him as the new look P's continue to be scouted. It's early, give him time.

No offense man but the "numbers" are those of less than 20 games in one season. The "numbers" that don't lie are their career numbers. Go ahead and compare them. If you want to talk about last year, then last year Vic - as much as I love his game, and I'm the one on here who repeatedly said I thought he could be an all star when he was not playing well in Orlando - did not play well. The guard comparison is a no go. The "2" and "3" that they're playing are the same, the difference is the side of the floor they play on. That was the entire difference while PG was with the Pacers and it's basically the way both teams play. I get that you love Vic and got fed up with PG, but no, man, Vic's roughly 20 games with the Pacers do not suddenly make him a top player in the League. I hope he keeps it up and earns that spot, but no, he's not there now, and this comparison is meaningless.

Honestly it's not just my opinion it's where things stand and there's literally no one in the NBA who'd say otherwise. I have no issue -- at all -- with your personal preference of Vic, or your belief that Vic and Sabonis are better for the Pacers in the long term, or your losing respect for PG, those are all your perceptions and they have as much value as anyone else's opinion. You do not need to keep throwing posts my way about my "love affair" with PG, etc., though. I hope Vic continues to grow his game, it's great to see him turning into a young star.

Just stop it Scott, seriously. It's not a love affair, and I'm not "defending" him, I'm responding to a post that you're ignoring in yet another post to take a jab. If you want to try to say that Victor Oladipo, as an NBA player, is on Paul George's level -- the post I replied to -- then you'd just be demonstrating a lack of knowledge. That comparison is completely false, and if you follow the NBA at all, you'd know that. What I never understand is why you go out of your way to post stuff like this. Whether you like it or not PG is a top 10-15 player in the League -- or for whatever it's worth, you can call him a top 25 player, who cares. No one would say Vic is a top 10-15 player or top 25 player. He is making a statement to include him as a top 50 player, which is fantastic, and maybe he continues to grow his game into that group of elite players, but he has a ways to go. I hope he gets there, your angst notwithstanding.

Oh now come on. Vic has started out great -- and again he's my favorite Hoosier of all time -- but no, he's not Paul George, there is literally no one in the NBA who would go anywhere near that statement. You don't just take a few games at the start of one season and compare stats, that's about as skewed and misleading as possible. If you want to compare stats, pull them up for Vic's career and then run the comparison. No where remotely in the same ball park. Vic is doing extremely well, if he keeps it up over the course of the season then fantastic, but don't go pulling early 2017-18 stats and try to make a comparison between him and a recognized superstar.

What a great story. OG, another under the radar recruiting prospect, blows up, then has an ACL tear in what was considered his key year, still gets drafted in the first round, and now as a rookie is starting and playing well on a top 3-4 team in conference. And he kind of shut down Harden....

He's a hell of a coach.

Wizards are in that group as well. They are under-performing but Beal is a beast and Wall will figure it out. Milwaukee is still young but they're going to be a load soon. Pacers look to have good (and better than I though) young pieces, if Turner steps up his game (this last one was good) over time they'll be good in a couple years or so. Phily has a ways to go, still, but a lot of talent. I tend to think Boston''s going to fall back to Earth a bit at some point this season, but they certainly look like a contender and Kyrie's living up to his "decision." Once Cleveland gets IT and is healthy, I think the dynamic will shift this season. But next season? Hmm.

Rockets aren't looking so bad either.... 90 points in a half?

That's great stuff. If OG stays healthy, he's going to be a heck of an NBA baller.

Awesome. OG is a heck of a player, it's great to see him succeeding and growing into a real player in the NBA

Yes agree that LeBron, Harden & Curry, as top 5 or so players, are on a higher level -- but not by much, whether PG is top 10 or top 15, he's considered a star player by everyone in the League, and he was the Pacers' franchise player. I agree there are facets here, I'm just saying he didn't get the calls and it's not as simple as saying star players get the calls. Westbrook right now is getting seriously dissed by the refs, repeatedly, and he's the reigning MVP. He's made some disparaging remarks about the officiating (all of which were absolutely deserved, the officiating in Portland in particular was laughably dishonest and won Portland the game), and I think he's getting some ref abuse as a result, but still. In any event, I'm just saying that guys who play for the Pacers, and similar teams, have a harder time getting the calls no matter how good they are, that's really simple fact at this point, and has been going on for a long time.

PG is a star Gleas. He didn't get the calls. It can be big market vs. small market or power team vs. non-power team. Can name a number of star players who don't get the calls that guys like Harden, LeBron, Curry, et al. get. Hell even Westbrook has been dissed by the refs recently.

This is the same thing PG dealt with as a Pacer. Some felt he complained too much, but in fairness, Pacers generally do not get the calls that franchise players on big market teams, or say Cleveland, get. This has been going on a long time.

Vic is now a veteran, Turner's still young and he's not there yet. Turner probably has a higher ceiling than Vic, but then Vic is playing at a really high level right now and this situation with the Pacers seems to be the best fit he's had so far in the League. Turner's coming back from an injury and he's dealing with trying to be the new face of the franchise, as expected, while Vic has come in and looks, right now, like the face of the franchise. This will get ironed out over time, but Turner needs to be given time to grow. Tons of talent, but not a franchise player, at least at this point. Meanwhile Sabonis was playing like a legit starter, now he's coming off the bench. Still a lot to iron out for the Pacers.

Whoa Michael Moorcock and Roger Zelazny! Elric of M, Corwin, and the Zelazny books, and the Princes of Amber, I read those in middle school! Fun reads

One can dream

Dresden Files? I haven't read any of those, good books? I read a fair amount of crime fiction. I didn't list them but my favorite crime fiction series / author is Martin Cruz Smith's inspector Renko books - Gorky Park and the rest. He's one of the best authors out there, in any genre, and the Renko books, all set in Russia, are the best. Also read Nelson DeMille - lots of humor to go with the crime drama. If you haven't read any James SA Corey's Expanse books though, check them out, they're really good - sci fi mix with some fantasy, some crime drama, really entertaining

Pacers and Vic ended their 4-game losing streak with an emphatic performance from Vic last night against the Bulls, 11-20 for 25 to go with 6 assists, 6 boards and 2 steals. Bogdanovic 8-12 for 22, Turner 5-11 for 11 with 9 boards, Collison 7 assists, Young 6-13. Nicely reflected, from the trade perspective, in the Thunder's W over the Clippers also ending a 4-game skid, with PG scoring 42 on 13-22 and, good to see, 12-15 from the stripe, 9 boards, 7 assists, 3 steals. Thunder with PG and Melo have been playing a lot of iso ball and taking long 2's (both PG and Melo), not a good formula. The way they played last night is their recipe for becoming the team most expected. Westbrook 8-16 with 8 assists, Melo 5-12 and 6 boards. Forced 18 TO's.

Adding another really good and fairly recent book / series -- Red Rising by Pierce Brown. Sci-Fi / fantasy.