BGleas

First, this is a different market. Every year is different. Second, Hayward wants to play in Indiana and the Pacers want Hayward but don't have cap space. There's only one team in the NBA that can give those two sides what they want.

Probably draft picks and some end of the roster stuff.

The problem for Hayward is while opting out gave him some leverage, he still doesn't have a ton. He wants Indiana, but Indiana has to do a sign and trade. The teams with cap space are the Knicks and Atlanta, but Hayward isn't going to the Knicks, and Atlanta would seem like an odd fit. Apparently the Hornets are interested l, and that is a spot Hayward signed several years ago but then Utah matched. Its a weird situation, because each party (Bos, Ind & Hayward) sort of has leverage but sort of doesn't as well.

That actually works in Boston's offense. The Celtics don't really post up bigs, Horford before him and Theis last year spent most of their time on the perimeter. The Celtics want the lane free for their wings and guards to get to the basket.

That's who Theis struggles with too. He's great in terms of positioning and battling and he's really good on the PnR, but when a legit center like Embiid takes him to the block he just doesn't have the size to defend them. Luckily, most bigs in the NBA think they're Steph Curry, so it's not always a problem. Plus, Theis is a solid (for a big) 3pt shooter, but unlike what it's sound like with Turner, Theis is selective in taking the 3.

Daniel Theis was the starter pretty much the entire year. He's one of the better defensive bigs in the NBA, but the issue is he lacks size. I'd say Theis is actually a better defender than Myles Turner, but he lacks size and isn't the shot blocker Turner is (though he did average 1.3 per game), but he's a great positional defender and really good defending the PnR. We also still have Robert Williams who is a developing young player, who during much of the playoffs played ahead of Kanter as the first big off the bench. He had some excellent playoff games. He's long, athletic and bouncy, while developing an offensive game. But yes, for Boston to be a true title contender, we need another big, preferably a starter.

That's my takeaway from this trade. The Celtics must be close to swapping Hayward for a big in a sign/trade.

I don't think he's going to be a bust. But the question remains on whether he'll blossom into a legit NBA starter/top end rotational guy, or is he going to hang around as a journeyman/trade fodder guy that you almost don't even realize is in the league.

Completely agree. I think the Celtics really like Langford. Like you said, they did work to get him minutes when he was healthy and he played really well at times. I'm glad he's on the C's and am pulling for him to realize his potential. I don't think he's a bust or anything, I just think he has a lot to work on offensively. He's got to find a way to become a semi-reliable perimeter shooter, regain his offensive confidence and develop his left hand dribble. He played some phenomenal defense last year and sometimes even defended stars when he got time. But, he was almost a zero offensively. He would literally just run to the corner and stand there, barely ever move and when he did get the ball he would fire to a teammate like a hot potato. Now, you could say that was his role as a rookie on a team with some stars, but guys like Jevonte Green and Semi Ojeleye would be far more aggressive offensively when they got chances in that role. Stevens loves guys that can play D, so Langford will get more chances. My comments are more regarding if a guy like Nesmith can come in and shoot at a high level and play even respectable defense, then he may pass Langford by. Edit: I think the Kanter deal is a sign the Celtics are close to a sign/trade with Hayward that is bringing a legit big to Boston. I would guess probably something the Pacers involving Turner.

This is where I'm at as well. I completely understand and appreciate the injuries. Heck, I've used them in defense of the team Langford's year at IU. But again, we're going on 2 years of bad shooting. It's not like shooting where you can see he's close or the form is there but there's one thing wrong. His shot looks completely broke and his confidence is in the gutter. I watched him last year and his misses were bad and his makes from the perimeter typically caught a lot of rim before going in. Nothing is pure at all. He's going to have to completely rebuild his jump shot. He can certainly do it, but IMO this isn't just a matter of getting healthy. The shot is broken and his confidence is completely gone.

Yeah, people forget, Grant Hill was a 7-time all-star and was one of the greats of the game. Not just a fringe guy, he was a lock all-star for 7 years before injuries completely derailed his career.

No, I haven't seen him healthy, but we're going on two years here. So with that much data I have to assume that playing through years of hand/wrist injuries has messed up his shot. He's not just off a little, he's been a bad shooter.

Wonder if the constant wrist issues and trying to play through them jacked up his form so much and he can't get it back?

I think so too. Edwards didn't really have a good year and Langford is an interesting case, he played better than expected defensively but provides almost nothing offensively. It's amazing to me that a guard can score so many points in Indiana high school basketball and be such a bad shooter. Its crazy to think that offense might be what limits his NBA career.

Most likely. I really like the Pritchard pick, so am ok not taking a project big at #26, plus we already have Robert Williams as a project big. The big will either come through a Hayward trade, or have read the Celtics might try and figure out a way to get Aaron Baynes back. We'll see...

We'll see. Shooting and defense is what you want around Tatum, Brown and Kemba. This kid is apparently a shooter and Langford showed a lot of defensive potential last year. I would think if Nesmith is even an average defender he would win out over time. My only concern with Nesmith is I saw he only shot 34% from 3 two years ago, then he shot incredibly well last season but in an injury shortened season.

Welp, all the guys I was hoping would drop to the Celtics at 14 got taken in the 3 previous picks. Will be so Danny Ainge to take RJ Hampton.

Such a simplistic view of the situation that lacks any/all context. I also didn't realize we were only comparing IU and Purdue, though we were also talking about Maryland, Iowa, MSU, Illinois, etc.

Sounds like Klay Thompson injured his right leg in a workout today. Really complicates things for the Warriors.

Yeah, that's not accurate.

I never said that you said that. I'm saying that is the much more difficult part and those are the players IU has struggled to stack on the roster.

Uh, yes they were more talented. IU wasn't all that talented last year. TJD hid a lot of things by just being a great freshmen big.

That's fine and I completely agree that you need role players, but the role players are the easy piece of the equation. Any Indiana coach can get good, solid role players just recruiting the state. The hard part is getting the game-changer, future pro's, that are the reason you're in a position to win titles. You need at least two of those guys, if not 3-4 to win a title. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about 1 and dones. I'm talking about future NBA players. Those come in a variety of ways, but you typically need 2-3 to be a legit, consistent title contender. The role players are the easier part, and IU seems to have an abundance of those.

That I agree with. Completely. Was just pushing back on the idea that Hayward is now just an average player. He's still an upper echelon player, but I agree that he isn't a guy that makes you a title contender. But, he is pretty much back to his old self.