FKIM01

34 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

What are you talking about, I mean, tonight Westbrook took 33 shots, twice as many as anyone else on the team.... Oh wait 

Seriously...I would not want to play with Westbrook as a pro.  I'll bet Oladipo was secretly very glad to get away from such a ball hog.

6 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

So, will Russ favor PG13 and freeze Vic out at the ASG?

I predict Westbrook takes 70 shots and doesn't look at either of them.

Ah...faulty memory. I knew it had changed just off on the changes.

25 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Also...PG...not an all star. 

24 minutes and no Hoopster rebuttal? 

Did I understand right that this year, the reserves could some from either conference without concern for balance beyond the starters?

I see Jason Kidd got fired in Milwaukee. General consensus was that they were underachieving and that his sets were pretty basic/ineffective.  I can't disagree considering the level of talent on that team vs. achievment.

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

Mom, Dwayne Wade, and Tom Crean talk Vic.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/insider/2018/01/17/victor-oladipo-has-lot-style-but-its-never-greater-than/1038551001/

 

My man crush just keeps growing.  What an unbelievably valuable player to the Pacers.

2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Basketball Reference has a cool feature where they list cumulative career stats for each draft class.  I was just looking at it to see how OG compared to everyone in the 2017 class, and as expected, he rates in the top 15 in almost every meaningful category (Top 10 in most), an indication that he was likely drafted too low.  

That led me to think, well what about Yogi.  Unfortunately, Yogi was not drafted in 2016, so there's no easy list and sort option to see how where he stands.  that said, he does have his personal page on the site, and by comparing his personal stats against those that were drafted, I thought these were particularly interesting.

• He would rank 5th in career win shares at 3.8.
• He would be 7th in career ppg at 10.1
• He would be 5th in Value over Replacement at .9
• If you throw out a couple of guys that have played less than 15 games, he would rank 4th in Box Plus/Minus at -.5
• 9th in minutes played with 2457 (which makes his top 5 in win shares even more impressive)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2016.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/ferreyo01.html

 

The young man has done himself proud.

 

You know what I love seeing the most?  Yogi WAAAAAY ahead of Tyler Ulis.  I got so sick of hearing how much better Ulis was than Yogi when they were in college.  All I saw out of Ulis was speed.

It's also good to see A.J. Hammons and Caleb Swanigan tearing it up in the NBA. 

3 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Couple of us tried to say how good of a trade that was for Pacers when they made trade for PG. Would love to find that thread. Anyway...Crean embracing Vic. Makes me wish things could have worked out for him. Truly a good guy. Wearing the IU colors as well. 

I know I was early on the bandwagon for that trade. I thought Vic was better than he got credit for but more than that, I knew he would be great for team chemistry and if anything, he's exceeded expectations there as well.

Indeed he does.  Doyel opined that in spite of the actual +/-, there is anecdotal evidence that VO is worth like fifty PPG...

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2018/01/08/doyel-oladipo-effect-leads-mvp-chants-pacers-swamp-bucks/1013227001/

Surely Vic is an all-star...and surely no one can say with a straight face anymore that OKC hosed the Pacers on the George trade.  Sabonis, the afterthought bonus player on the trade was 8/12 against the Bucks and had high-point honors.  Vic is the unquestioned star of the Pacers, but Sabonis is an absolute master of the pick and roll...he is so frigging smooth and automatic on that play. I watched him do it again...and again...and again against the Bulls Saturday night.  They had no answer for it despite the fact that they knew it was coming.

Ironically, Paul George should be the MVP of this year's Pacers.  It's been a long time since the Pacers' team chemistry looked this good.

4 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Oladipo is back, and the Pacers are crushing the Bulls at the half, 64-37, Vic has 16 at the half on 7-9 shooting. Not too shabby. And 6 assists.

I was at the game as well.  At one point,  Vic had three straight steals, the last one with an emphatic dunk. He looked great and he makes everyone around him better. TJ Leaf didn't miss and Sabonis just killed it on the pick and roll. Pacers looked really good.

...and yeah I realize the Bulls aren't very good but the Pacers would have beaten many teams Saturday night.

On 1/4/2018 at 9:09 PM, IU Scott said:

Very disappointed in Myles Turner and the quicker he realizes that he is 7 foot tall the better.  I am tired of seeing him think he is a 7 foot shooting guard.

He was absolutely stroking is from the outside in Saturday night's game.

4 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Lol Kev, you're like some jilted boyfriend haha. 

Vic is having such a fantastic year, so far, if he keep this kind of play up he will have earned his way into discussion with the top group of guards. What's been most impressive to me has been how efficiently he's scored so far this season, he's really raised his outside game.

Still a lot of season to go, but man did he find a great fit with this Pacers squad. He is doing so much better than he did last season, with Westbrook, who, unfortunately, is still playing like he did last season instead of working to move the ball around with PG and Melo (Thunder rank something like 25th in assists, right now, way too much iso ball)

I am still in a wait and see mode as to whether that Thunder squad gets it together, if they do -- like when they beat Golden State -- they're really good. If they don't, they still got what they wanted in getting Russ to commit to a long-term deal. So far, the Melo addition was a bad one. 

The PG comparison stuff though is just silly. Leaving aside we're talking two diftferent teams, and that Vic had a really bad year while playing with Westbrook like PG is currently trying to do (golly), did you know PG is leading the League right now in steals, as in #1? He's actually playing great D overall, while playing up and down offensively -- funny how it seems to coincide with Melo either not being on the floor, when PG had huge games, or not controlling possession. I wonder when people will just enjoy Vic doing well without the silly stuff about PG. I hope they both end up having great seasons -- go Vic.

 

 

At some point you're gonna have to admit it...Pacers killed it on that trade. 

4 hours ago, BGleas said:

Add to it that the Pacers VO is not the VO the Thunder had or would have had. Vic is a terrible fit next to Westbrook. It just didn't work. So it probably really is a win-win. 

I can't argue that at all.  It seems that Vic needed the ball more than Westbrook was willing to share.  There just wasn't really room for both of hem in that offense and as a result, Vic's production wasn't what it could have been.

4 hours ago, Indykev said:

No he is on the Anti- Paul George Train and has been for a long time. This was just another shot at PG.

I see. Whatever his motivation, I think he's right...when the dust settles and history passes it's final judgment, this trade will be judged as one of the best the Pacers made. Period.  The only thing that changes that is a career unexpectedly cut short due to injury.

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

 

So Dakich is no on the VO train...you're just a little late, dude.

...and yes...it is sweet being right about the trade when all the experts were wrong...

4 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Bleacher Report story on Vic, but it is on CNN.com.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2744393-bothered-by-trade-reaction-shade-victor-oladipo-finally-scoring-like-a-star?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

 

That's a really nice article. It also gives me a new level of respect for Nate McMillan.

I'm seeing both sides of this having been on the "Vic" side of the debate.  I've felt almost ridiculed for suggesting that Vic is every bit the player Paul George is (this season and perhaps going forward).  I understand the historical statistics, but I also understand trajectory, attitude and organizational fit.  I've almost heard the laughter and scoffing while reading some posts here opinion that Vic is not possibly in the same plateau as PG even as the statistics continue to bear out the opinion that he's caught George, who is likely on the back side of the apex of his talent.  I've tried to keep my comments on the level and non-confrontational, but I've seen posts on both sides of the issue that appeared to belittle opposing views and IMO, Scott may be reacting to that vibe...or maybe he's just having a bad week.  Probably nothing that a big win in Bloomington tonight can't cure.

37 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It's not really a fair comparison to compare Vic's stats this year to PG's. A more fair look would be comparing Vic last year to PG this year (because playing with a player as ball dominant as Westbrook skews things) or compare PG last year to Vic this year (again the Westbrook factor). 

 

I just went back and looked and I'm not going to spend the time posting all the comparisons again (too much work to get done!) but suffice it to say, George plays about a minute more, shoots a little more efficiently and averaged 1.8 PPG less than last year. Overall, Vic compares well to those numbers too and PG doesn't appear to be really adversely affected by the Westbrook factor.  I would argue that Vic was considerably more affected by the Westbrook factor since they are both guards and Westbrook, for whatever reason, appears to be more willing to share with his new sidekicks than he was with the guys who got traded.

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Oh now come on. Vic has started out great -- and again he's my favorite Hoosier of all time -- but no, he's not Paul George, there is literally no one in the NBA who would go anywhere near that statement. You don't just take a few games at the start of one season and compare stats, that's about as skewed and misleading as possible. If you want to compare stats, pull them up for Vic's career and then run the comparison. No where remotely in the same ball park. Vic is doing extremely well, if he keeps it up over the course of the season then fantastic, but don't go pulling early 2017-18 stats and try to make a comparison between him and a recognized superstar. 

The numbers don't lie.

Moreover, I would tell you that I believe PG is past the midpoint on his skills trajectory while VO is still climbing.

I get it...you say the sample size is too small. I say that Vic has spent his career proving people wrong and I don't think he's done making the experts look foolish

Great article. I just get annoyed at "well he's no Paul George".  Look at the stats this year and tell me he's no Paul George.

VO vs PG:

22.9 vs 21.9 PPG

45.8 vs 43.8 FG%

44.7 vs 42.5 3pt%

80.6 vs 79.4 FT%

5.2 vs 5.9 Rebounds

3.8 vs 2.8 assists

0.9 vs 0.4 blocks

1.7 vs 2.6 steals

2.7 vs 3.0 fouls

3.2 vs 2.7 T/O

Please tell me where Paul George is crushing VO...I don't see it.  The only arguments you have is they don't play the same position and personally I think VO's trajectory leaves a lot more in the tank than Paul George will have going forward.  Injuries are the only thing that changes that.

Enough of the "he's no Paul George" talk.  This year, he most certainly is.

17 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Nate McMillan improves to 5-0 against Frank Vogel’s Magic. 

...I get your point, but I still think Vogel is a better coach...guessing the talent is just superior with the Pacers.  I hope I'm proven wrong on McMillan.

Holy cow...Oladipo is averaging 44% from deep?!!

Sabonis just looks great as well.  I get more and more confident that the Thunder got SCREWED on that trade.

The bonus for the Pacers on that trade is that I (and I'll bet many other Hoosiers) am/are watching professional basketball. I didn't watch a game last year.

26 minutes ago, ButlerHoosier said:

It also seems like Vic is becoming the alpha and leader of the Pacers. I may be off about this but it seems like some troubles started happening when Turner came back. With Sabonis in there things flow pretty well and with Turner it seems like he is trying to find his place in the pecking order. 

That seems like a plausible explanation of what the Pacers went through.  Turner was kinda tagged as the new face of the Pacers when George left, but I think that changed when Vic was acquired and Turner is probably still trying to figure it out.  Vic is very much a leader but I see him as a benevolent leader who realizes the value of Turner and will at some point (if he hasn't already) have a conversation to let Turner know he's wanted and valued. If everyone gets on the same page and they have decent coaching, this group could be a pleasant surprise.

The redshirt contract is $77K?  That's more than I expected and at least gives players a number they can cover expenses with.  That makes the G league more attractive than the old NBADL by a long shot.

...and count me as another one who is much more interested in Pacer basketball than I have been recently. I just wish we still had Frank Vogel.  What a bone-headed move that was...