Maedhros

17 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Brother how do you think he got hired?

 

So you agree with me then 😄

20 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

Trilly said Dolson met with some notable former players today and the message was simple. They want Woodson GONE! 

If our AD is considering the input of former players in his decision making, that's truly distressing stuff. Regardless what you think of Woodson.

1 hour ago, Stlboiler23 said:

 

Interesting quote after giving up 97 points at home lol. 

Is there a chance Underwood is perhaps confusing "Defensive" with "Defendant"?

25 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

agreed, but i would think he would do it because he cares about his alma mater.  i would assume he would not be seeking another job.  seems he is best suited for retirement.  

I'm not thinking about Woodson with that post, but rather Hunter, Rosemand and Walsh. Presumably they still have careers in college basketball to think about, maybe even still with Indiana. Hunter and Walsh were here before Woodson, after all.

Even if Woodson is stepping aside, I'd think at least one of them would want to continue the relationships with Sisley, Mullins, et al. Maybe you can stay on staff with the next guy by being the bridge between these targets and the next administration. Or maybe you can get hired at Michigan or Ohio State based on the relationships you've built.

It's puzzling not to see any of the staff out seeing anyone at all, unless I missed it. 

Even if Woodson knows he's done, I would still expect to see assistants out there, continuing to grow and build relationships on the trail. That's how you get hired for your next job. 

I've truly enjoyed watching Kel'el Ware play this year. It's been a long time, if ever, that we've seen his combination of size and agility in and Indiana uniform. He's only scratching the surface, too. I'm adding some negativity to this thread, as we only have a few games left to appreciate him, but it's worth remarking what a special talent we have on hand. He's going to be drafted, likely in the first round pick, and should absolutely go pro. Just a shame we won't get to see what he could have become as an upperclassmen, like TJD. Enjoy nights like last night while he's here.

Some of you in this thread desperately need to touch grass. It's just basketball, a child's game, played for your entertainment. If you aren't entertained, so be it, but that's not reason to act with the emotional intelligence of a child. The failures of Indiana Basketball are not malevolent acts directed at you personally, nor should they be met with such vitriol and bile. If you can't handle seasons like this without coming apart at the seams, you're clearly not built for this. Find other interests you can emotionally handle, or grow the **** up.

Wait... there are snacks?

Hot damn. Don't have Peacock so had to watch via Twitter, but even that was exciting. I missed a great one, seemingly, and love the result. This team's still got everything ahead of it. What a performance.

This list is invalid without my favorite: the breakfast sandwich

I don't hate it. Unless Queen was comfortable coming off the bench - and likely he wasn't - he's not a great fit on a roster with Reneau.  I'd love to have the talent, but Fland was the real miss.

Better yet, I'd rather have high four star talent, less top fifteen kids that are looking to be one and done. Build a foundation. Missing on so many kids in '23 and '24 is disastrous considering all the resources and effort wasted on high end kids. Let this be a chance to rethink the strategy.

2 hours ago, Indykev said:

 

Isn't that just Anthony Leal? 

Anyone been to Damsel brewing in Evansville? I go to Winterfest every year, and they've had some standout offerings. Last year it was Fran, an old ale. This year they were pouring Endora, a Gruit brewed with lion's mane mushrooms. Incredibly smooth with an umami flavor you don't often associate with beer. Strongly recommend to anyone in the area.

On 2/15/2024 at 9:52 AM, hoosierhoosier said:

It is pretty wild that IUWBB have only lost to top 5 teams on true road games, and are still rated at #14.  I actually like they are being underdogs of sort.

Completely agree. I'd been relying on metrics to show Stanford was a top five team, even if they didn't start the season ranked that way. Now I look up and see Ohio St, Stanford and Iowa are 2-3-4 in the AP.

FWIW, we're up to 8th on Her Hoop Stats, 8th at Massey as well. I know we weren't competitive in two of those road losses, but I'm still thinking this team has Final Four potential until I'm proven otherwise.

30 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Can I ask what makes you think this is going to happen.  We haven't had any great years yet.  A couple of what I would say are good years compared to the last 8 -10 years, but would be considered mediocre years in our history (even compared to some of the Coach Crean's teams).  What would be a great year to you?  I would consider an EE or FF run to be a great year.  And how long do you wait to get to that Great year.  If next year is bad are you willing to wait another year?  Or maybe for year 5 or 6 to get a great year?  And what do you expect after that?  More great years or are you ok with mediocrity for a couple more years to get another great year?  All asked in honestly without any agenda.  Just trying to understand your thoughts.

And btw, i don't really care much anymore if we fire or keep Coach Woodson.  Eventually he will retire or be fired and we'll either have enjoyed his tenure here or not.  i don't currently get much enjoyment out of this team or style of play and there isn't really any one player who i really enjoy and root for.  I liked TJD but i really have to go back to Zeller, Yogi, VO, Sheehey, Watford for a team and players i truly enjoyed rooting for and watching.  The Watshot and the missed VO dunk against Michigan are two of my favorite memories of IU basketball. That and the Keith Smart shot to win the National Title in 87.

I think it's very easy to make the case Woodson was showing steady progress until this year. I wouldn't call Woodson's first two years Great either, but they were better than what came before. Last season was about as good as we've had post-Knight, excepting only the Sampson years and Crean's two peaks. I had fun, warts and all. This is college, you're always going to have warts. I think what Woodson accomplished his first two years earned him a fourth, even as bad as the third has been. You make it clear this season can't happen again, and then - even if next year is another Good season - if you don't have clear and definitive reasons to think we're back on the track to contention I'm fine cutting loose at that time.

Coaches have bad years, where the roster doesn't come together. Look at Painter's years 8-9. Look at Musselman this year. Or Mick Cronin. Like a player having a sophomore slump, you don't cut a coach loose after one bad season. Even at Indiana, allow coaches an opportunity to learn and grow on the job. Give him a chance to right the ship. If he can't, then you'll know.

That all said, I actually don't think Woodson turns this around, and I don't think he ever delivers Great years. To me the big flashing warning sign is the recruiting. The five-stars are wonderful, but there hasn't been near enough four-star talent brought in to round out the roster and provide continuity. Some of that feels by design, which means it could be correctable, but time is vanishingly short. 

I want Woodson to succeed, because he's the head basketball coach at Indiana, and I want Indiana Basketball to succeed. If next year Indiana Basketball succeeds with someone else at the helm, that'll be more than fine by me. 

6 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I miss Joey Crawford. He left no doubt

 

Swear to god, make the charge signal something else that's less fun for the officials and watch the calls dry up overnight.

3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I think all of that may be 100% dead on and it leads me to believe that is the reason I don't want Mike doing the roster overhaul and rebuild thus summer.  I don't want to dump more resources and time into a 66 year old that is just now learning that college isn't the NBA.  That is year one stuff, not year four.  How long do you think it takes him to figure out? 1 to 3 years?  So say at 69 he has maybe had 1 or 2 more one and dones in the tournament along with a miss or two, but now he has got things figured out...at 69.  Does anyone think Mike is coaching until he is 75?  I don't.

The type of investment you are describing is the type of investment you make in a younger, up and coming coach.  Not a 66 year old.  Mike didn't have time to figure out that the NBA is different from college.  He needed to come in knowing that.  So he sits looking into year 4 on a massive downward trajectory with 1 HS recruit currently committed and looking at needing to hit a whole bunch of humerus in the portal to even begin to start turning things around.  I think you add his issues listed above to that most likely reality and you sit down and tell him, "I think if you had more time that this could work out, but how much longer are you really wanting to do this because I don't feel we have another 3 years for you to get yourself situated to the college game and this upcoming year looks really concerning from where I sit..."

He needs to retire.

I actually remain optimistic about next year precisely because of the fork in the road this season represents. Coming from the NBA - where you are what your record says you are - it's easy to get back to the playoffs in year one, get a better seed and advance another round in year two, and say "my shit is working". A season like this forces some hard truths and introspection. 

I do think Dolson should have that conversation. Make it clear this season is unacceptable, and discuss what changes Woodson is willing and able to make to be successful at this level. If Woodson decides he's an old dog and doesn't want to learn new tricks, so be it. But it's not hard to squint and see a way it can come together as quickly as next year. Reneau, Mgbako and McNeeley is a dynamic frontcourt that provides excellent spacing. Change your portal strategy to go all out for guards. Recognize that instant impact Boogie Fland's are nice, but you can win by supplementing your five stars even with guys who won't sniff the NBA.

Many have responded to this season by saying Woodson should be fired. My response is to ask what changes will we see to ensure a season like this never happens again. Woodson has earned the opportunity to answer that question.

Mike Woodson is the Indiana coach until he isn't. Woodson's age shouldn't matter to anyone except Woodson. You judge him on his ability to effectively coach and lead this program and that's that. I get wanting to build something you know will last, but sports success is so fleeting, I'll take joy where I can get it. If it's a few great years from Woodson before he retires, so be it. I'll have fun for a time, and the program will be a better place when he hands it off to the next guy. That's why I'm content giving Woodson more time to turn this around, until it becomes clear he can't or won't.

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Big Ten refs, Big Ten reffing...

 

 

That's just a common blarge. Thomas Bryant and Caleb Swanigan can tell you all about it. 😅

1 hour ago, kycarter88 said:

Soooo, where’s Sisley going? Must’ve chicken in the wrong thread 

I don't have any insider information, but if he wants to stay local there's Hoosier Land Pizza & Wings right down the road from the high school, offering 8, 16, or 25 wings with a over 20 different sauces. That's where I'd go!

1 hour ago, Hoosierfan1901 said:

Holtmann has been fired 

8 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

A lot of that is skewed by the last 6 or 7 years when RMK was angry at the administration and lost a lot of interest in what he was doing. He preferred hunting and fishing and left recruiting to the assistants. He seriously considered leaving for New Mexico. 

In his first 22 seasons, he won the B1G 11 times. Back when the regular season title meant something. You don't mention the six seasons they started unranked and finished in the top 25. in his first 21 seasons, he had five FF appearances. 

Those are great things Knight accomplished! That's why he's one of the best to ever do it. Not challenging that, only this impression some have that Indiana Basketball was better and more consistent than it was during his time. 

I want the next Knight, I want a coach to hang multiple banners. I don't think we get there by setting standards higher than what even one of the very best coaches ever was able to achieve at this program, and then tossing aside a coach at the first sign of struggling to meet them.

On 2/11/2024 at 12:04 AM, BankShot said:

- Consistently having a successful strategy/approach to the game, fundamentals, execution, and talent to be nationally competitive. 

- Being consistently ranked in the top 20 to top 10 in the nation.

- Finishing in the top 2 or 3 in the Big Ten.

- Winning at least two to three games in the NCAA tournament, annually.

Those used to be the minimally acceptable requirements for Indiana basketball.

 

Used to be.

 

It never was. Even in Bob Knight's 29 years at Indiana:

• We finished the year unranked entirely 11 times. Six of those seasons started out ranked in the top 12.
• We finished outside the top three in the Big Ten 8 times. 
• We made only 14 Sweet Sixteens, just less than half the time. We made 8 Elite Eights.

In a 29 year stint, only 13 seasons met all three of the measurable criteria you provided. And that's with a HOF coach, one of the five or so best ever to do it. 

I often see charges of "accepting mediocrity" thrown around on this board, but some fans need to adjust their thinking of the good old days. There were some amazing highs in there, no doubt, but there were lows as well. If we stop inflating the past, maybe we'll provide a better environment for someone to build a program in the present.

Granting the premise that #1 on our need list is a PG that can shoot and create shots... what's #2? Or 3 or 4? It's a one man class right now, lots of spots to fill.

13 hours ago, dgambill said:

I want 3pt shooters…dynamic play makers in our backcourt…I don’t think this kid qualifies as either….but we are so desperate because of how poorly we’ve constructed this team and all the misses on the recruiting trail it almost feels like he is a must get.

I didn't immediately find a good scouting report on Davis, but this writeup from Rob Cassidy in September - before Davis decommitted from Providence - sure sounds like a player we can use:

It’s starting to feel as though Providence may be getting a steal in the 6-foot-point guard, from whom it landed a verbal pledge back in June. Davis, who boasts a wing span much longer than his 6-foot frame, is a legitimate two-way guard that does a little bit of everything, not the least of which is scoring from all over the floor.

He held offers from Villanova, Maryland, Illinois and others when he made his decision, but his developing skill set suggests he may have attracted even more opportunities had he waited a couple months to make the call.

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/i-ve-got-five-on-it-under-the-radar-commitments

Making the perfect the enemy of the good is arguably the reason Woodson ended up with the roster he has. Lots of guys lacking NBA skills can still contribute to winning at the college level. There's a red flag here in that we haven't seen those additional schools jump in after his decommitment. But I really hope the reason we're slow playing this is not because we're holding out for another JHS.