IUProfessor

Would people prefer to land Queen if it means we're starting Reneau and Derik together next year? Or would you rather miss on this recruitment if it frees us up to play a 4 out, 1 in style?

1 hour ago, 02Hoosier said:

Which is what scares me about going the mid-major route again. I'd love to swing for the fences and get a Pearl/Beard/Oats but the odds of that aren't great unfortunately it seems. Hard to find proven guys at the P6 level that are willing to leave their current job. Does IU have enough pull still to land a guy like that? We'll see within the next few years I guess...

Tj Otzelberger 

14 hours ago, DC2345 said:

For starters the situations that the two are coming from. Everyone wins at Dayton. FAU is a significantly harder situation historically. Also his X’s and O’s are much better than Archie’s. May has also been mentioned by some as the next possible face of college coaches. Archie was never mentioned at that level by anyone. 

I don't mean this snarkily, so this is an honest question: who outside the IU ecosystem is saying May is the new face of college coaching? 

He may well turn out to be a great coach, but the analytics don't really support that lofty of a billing.

Personally, I still think TJ Otzelberger is pretty clearly the best candidate. 

3 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

So I don't really know the answer to this, and it isn't something I have wrestled with a ton because we don't have an opening and I haven't spent much mental energy on a potential replacement at this point.

 

 

Beard's charges were dropped - another state flagship university hired him.

Charges being dropped does not make him innocent, and in DV situations charges get dropped a lot because the victim isn't willing to cooperate.

Does "merely" getting charged with something that was later dropped mean he shouldn't get a job coaching again?

If the answer to the above is "no", but you don't think he should coach IU... why shouldn't he got a job at IU if he should be able to get a job somewhere?

 

I don't really know the answer to all of those, but I think they're reasonable questions. 

Agreed, it's a tough situation. I don't know where I come down on it myself, other than that that baggage certainly doesn't make him a "perfect" candidate.  

Just now, IndyResident16 said:

His charges were dropped and there is no longer a case being pursued against him.

This same state and flagship university employed a man who was convicted of assault on a law enforcement officer for nearly 20 years after the fact. Coach Knight faced extradition to Puerto Rico to serve a 6 month jail sentence until the governor of PR ran out of resources. 

Spare me with your holier than thou attitude. Chris Beard is paid to win basketball games. He's a basketball coach for crying out loud, not the face of moral compass.

I'm not necessarily saying I would oppose the hire myself. I'm just pointing out the fact that Beard isn't a the no-brainer choice you are suggesting.

Personally, I'd think there's a pretty good case that either TJ Otzelberger or Shewberry would be a better choice for this position than Beard, even setting aside the DV issue.

1 minute ago, IndyResident16 said:

What's the difference? 

I can't believe this is a legit question. But considering that IU is first and foremost an institution of higher education, and the state flagship at that, I don't think it's unreasonable for one to believe that an individual who was so recently charged with such a serious crime shouldn't be leading the most University's most visible public-facing unit.

Saying that Beard shouldn't be considered doesn't mean one isn't serious about winning. Especially considering there are a variety of other strong potential candidates out there.

1 hour ago, IndyResident16 said:

 

Chris Beard is the perfect candidate job if IU is ever serious about winning again. I'm not going to hold me breath though.

He's not a perfect candidate. A perfect candidate isn't one who was fired by his alma mater for some pretty disturbing domestic violence allegations. Even if you don't believe those allegations are disqualifying, they at a minimum render the "perfect" adjective misplaced.

Now, if you'd said he was a perfect candidate if IU is serious about winning at all costs, then your point would be stronger. 

Still no updates on X or Reneau yet? Or did I miss it?

I will say that the cupboard of established, successful P5 coaches who might be interested, and who would fit the bill, is looking a little thin right now. Shaka Smart probably would come. I'd bet Pearl would come if offered, but again he might not fit the bill. Maybe Mick Cronin, if he's ready to get back to the Midwest?

Beyond that, you might be looking at someone like Dennis Gates, who has lost a bit of luster this year. And even then, he wouldn't be that exciting (based on record to date).

T. J. Otzelberger might be interesting down the road, but needs to prove himself a bit more before landing a job like IU.

So, even if IU decides to move on from Woodson, unless you're convinced Dusty May is the guy, it might be better to wait another year or two.

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Well he had an assistant arrested in the FBI investigation of college basketball 

For mostly doing things that would now be legal in the NIL era. Not saying that makes it OK, but the ground has shifted considerably in this regard in the last 5 or 6 years.

20 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

This bothers me a lot.  And, I can't imagine it sits well with a lot of former players either.  Discipline and accountability appear to be missing.  I'll go back to the preseason and toss out the Taco Bell thing as well.  I thought the punishment was too soft then, and this is just an example of the kind of fallout you have with lax discipline.   

Agreed. Results on the court alone dictate he gets one more year, IMO, but these discipline issues make the calculus more difficult. 

That having been said, I also didn't see the 12 (?) game losing streak coming the Romeo year, or the bottom falling out the way it did down the stretch Archie's last year. It's not crazy to think something similar could occur this year, which would increase the pressure to make a change.

Last thought - while I agree Woodson is not likely to just retire on his own, I do wonder if he'd bristle at being given some ultimatums this off season, and refuse to agree. I could definitely see him being too prideful to agree to some conditions that Dolson might put forward.

How did this one turn so suddenly?

11 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Comparing the track record of Jim Harbaugh before Michigan and Mike Woodson before Indiana is comically different. Harbaugh didn't have "some success" - Harbaugh had established himself as one of the best coaches at any level of football from his results on the field at both levels.

 

For sure. He also had prior success in college at the P5 level. Like I said, not a perfect analogy. Still, I think the broader point remains. Woodson has proven to be a good enough recruiter he could still turn this around (rather quickly) if he seriously reflects on the shortcomings in his scheme, roster construction, etc. thus far. Is he willing to do so - that is the question.

It occurred to me this morning that while not a perfect analogy, you can draw some parallels between IU basketball under Woodson and Michigan football under Harbaugh. Both starred at their schools under legendary coaches, went on to respectable professional careers, and then had some level of success coaching professionally, before returning home to try to revive their alma maters. Both had some immediate success turning things around, but fell short of the desired goals. Then things started to slip.

It took Harbaugh a few more years, and almost losing his job after a disastrous COVID year, to take a long look in the mirror, but then he changed schemes, assistants, culture, etc.

I'm not sure if Woodson is at a similar point yet, but it certainly appears that things aren't going as planned, and IU is reaching a critical juncture under his leadership. Will he be willing to holistically reevaluate what's working here and what isn't, and adjust accordingly?

Three years ago today, only a fool would have thought that Michigan football would go 40-3 over the next three years and win a national championship (Connor Stallions or not). IU certainly could have the same sort of turn around under Woodson, but it'll take a lot of hard work, and some real introspection.

If we can't beat a not-so-great OSU club at home after the drubbing on Wednesday night, it's hard to see a realistic path to the Dance. So this is a really big game.

I don't think you can rely on Newton to play meaningful minutes next year. I'd recruit a grad transfer type for one year as a back up at CG.

I was thinking Cupps with the CG and Galloway backing him up. 

Edit: But you're probably right. 7 man class adding Daquan Davis then.

Not to be greedy, but how about a six man class of:

Salon

McNeeley

Tiller

Queen

Portal CG

Portal 3/4

Any word on how this or the other visits went?

To expand upon a post I made on the Kansas post-game thread, win the next 3 then go 10-8 in the B1G here on out and you finish 20-11 (12-8) heading into the BTT. If one of those wins is Purdue, and you avoid a bad loss, that's probably firmly on the bubble. Go 11-7 in the B1G and win 2 in the BTT, and that's 23-11 (13-7) on selection day and you're in. 

If you look at our remaining schedule, it isn't crazy to think they could go 14-7 from now until the BTT:

Morehead State

North Alabama

Kennesaw State 

@ Nebraska

Ohio State

@ Rutgers

Minnesota 

Purdue

@ Wisconsin 

@ Illinois 

Iowa

Penn State

@ Ohio State

@ Purdue

Northwestern 

Nebraska

@ Penn State

Wisconsin

@ Maryland

@ Minnesota 

Michigan State

Hold serve at home, and win @ Nebraska, Penn State, and Minnesota, and that's 22-9 overall heading into the BTT. Trip up at home vs. anyone but Purdue, and you're still at 22-10 and right in the mix for a bid.

Win the next 3 then go 10-8 in the B1G here on out and you finish 20-11 (12-8) heading into the BTT. If one of those wins is Purdue, and you avoid a bad loss, that's probably firmly on the bubble. Go 11-7 in the B1G and win 2 in the BTT, and that's 23-11 on selection day and you're in.

4 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Agreed. The tides began to shift the moment Mgbako picked up his 4th. I don’t think Woodson put him back in until under 4.

Woodson sent him to check back in at 5:00 left, but it took over a minute to get a whistle.

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

I thought we let him sit too long. McCullar had four fouls and he played through it, and was huge down the stretch. I understand he's a lot more experienced, but it didn't have to be that big of a difference either. 

I thought the game was lost by not attacking McCullar more, especially once he picked up his 4th. He played with 4 for 8 or 10 minutes it felt like. Get him out, and IU wins.

29 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

 

And Woodson can say whatever he wants, he hasn’t built a roster remotely resembling that style of play or done anything to show that’s how he wants to play. 

This strikes me as the key point in this entire debate. By year three this is Woody's roster, for better or worse.

Any updates on X's status? Game time decision?