Build Your Own Team

[5fouls]

5 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

This is such a good topic.  Not for the teams used to pick from but for how each person, mostly based on age, picks their teams.  Those who lived through the 70 and 80s really lean on those players with a couple new players whereas the younger generation finds the newer teams more appealing by watching them and play style.

This is not at all a dig at the younger generation, like an unnamed poster likes to do, but more at how as fan we are really affected by what teams we grew up watching.  

Personally i don't remember Mays, Benson or Buckner.  I know the name from lore and know they were the some of the best to even put on an IU uniform.  I remember the 87 team through today.  And so my favorite players tend to be in the 90s and 2000s.

I just really enjoy seeing these types of discussion.

In hindsight, maybe I should have went with the '02 team instead of one of the teams from the '80's.  That would have pulled in a different generation and would have added some variety to the backcourt since both IT and Alford are automatic picks.

 

[btownqb]

31 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Benson offensive game was more than just trying to back his man down to the basket.  TJD should shoot 60 percent with where his shots come from.

He is shooting 58% and has been over that % all season, until very recently. 

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

In hindsight, maybe I should have went with the '02 team instead of one of the teams from the '80's.  That would have pulled in a different generation and would have added some variety to the backcourt since both IT and Alford are automatic picks.

 

Can't fault you though. Heckuva job just coming up with the idea. 

[IU Scott]

Well if it weren't for the rules I would had Benson ad the starting center.  Also I wouldn't have any players from 13 or this years team.

[5fouls]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Well if it weren't for the rules I would had Benson ad the starting center.  Also I wouldn't have any players from 13 or this years team.

 

23 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Folks.  Even of you don't usually listen to what Scott says, read his sentence I quoted.  Those aren't point totals for the first 6 games of the year against cupcakes.  Those are point totals from the NCAA tournament for a team that basically played 7.5 guys a game.  It was with a shot clock.  It was with a 3-point shot (admittedly a shorter one than exists today). 

When Scott talks about the game being better in the 80's, this is the type of thing he's alluding to.  His point has merit on many levels.  Doesn't mean that style would work today.  But,  it was a darn good form of basketball to watch.

But, yes, I agree with those that say the games was less interesting without the shot clock or 3-point shot.  But, 1987 had both of those.

Scott.  I try to help you out when you make a really good post (my post quoted above), and then you blow it all up with a different one (your post quoted above).  I'll give you this year's team, but if you can't find room on the roster for at least one of Oladipo, Watford, or Zeller, your 80's bias is too strong.

[MoyeCowbell]

What one player from 5fouls' list of teams -- outside of this year's -- would you add to this year's roster? And could this (or any???) player elevate this team to a national title?

[IUFLA]

24 minutes ago, btownqb said:

No he didn't. He was a 4. That article was before the season. 

Two 6' guards 

Wagner.. who is a wing and Livers. Idk what there is to argue here. May wouldnt be thought about as a wing in this day with the skill set he had. 

I can show you numerous articles that says he can play either position, but it's not worth the effort. He and Wagner were basically interchangeable...

You never saw Scott May play, except maybe games on YouTube or highlights, so I'm not sure your assessment of his skill set could be considered valid. 

Again, you're trying to fit players from different eras the bro today's game and it's not possible. The only thing it achieved is to make the older players look bad. You already gave your thoughts on Quinn Buckner...but you don't know anything about what kind of player he really was or his value to a team. You focus on a physical skill that you disparage...

You cannot see this exercise solely through the prism of today's game, nor try to fit older players into it with their particular "skill set." That only feeds into your narrative that today's game and players are organically better than those of past eras...

 

[Seeking6]

2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

 A lot of lineup discussions with this team,  Thought it might be fun to try to take the players from this year's team and integrate them into a lineup made up from players in IU's Past. 

Here are your rules

• Select an 8-man rotation from the starting rosters of the 5 IU teams below
• Your team will consist of 5 starters and 3 bench players.  
• Positions matter for the starters.  The number by the player's name below represents their spot in the starting lineup
• Every IU roster below must be represented on your team.  No more than 2 players can be selected from any of the teams
• As a coach, you are committed to playing all starters 25+ minutes
• You must select at least one STARTER from each of the 5 teams below.  Yes, that means someone from this year's team starts 
• Rosters were determined by who started the most.  For example, Turner started more than J. Thomas in '81
• Not required, but If you want to offer an explanation on how you put your team together, it would add to the discussion  
• Remember, your starting lineup can only have one starter from each team and starters cannot be shifted off their designated position
• Edit:  I didn't pick '92-'93 because I wanted an additional 'recent' team in the mix.  Hence '-12-'13.  The 3 champions and this year's rosters are at the core of the exercise.

'75-'76 Roster

1) Buckner

2) Wilkerson

3) May

4) Abernathy

5 Benson

 

 '80-'81 Roster

1) I. Thomas

2) Wittman

3) Kitchell

4) Turner

5) Tolbert

 

'86-'87 Roster

1) Smart

2) Alford

3) Calloway

4) D. Thomas

5) Garrett

 

'12-'13 Roster

1) Ferrell

2) Hulls

3) Oladipo

4) Watford

5) Zeller

 

'21-'22 Roster

1) X. Johnson

2) Stewart

3) Kopp

4) Thompson

5) Jackson-Davis

 

 

These are always fun and with so many great players you just never know.

I'm going with this one.

1) Zeke-best point guard we've ever had

2) Alford-best shooter we've ever had

-This is where it gets tough for me.  I want Oladipo here. I cant imagine anyone being able to defend Zeke with the option of dishing to Alford and draining anything or potentially dishing to a slashing Oladipo on other side...but will go May for the rules.

3) May

4) This is tough but I think I'll go Race Thompson to fill out the requirement

5) Zeller

Bench-Oladipo, Wittman, and TJD.

So many tough one's because of the roster construction. Tougher than I thought! 

Edit-How did I leave Buckner off? 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Seeking6

[btownqb]

6 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I can show you numerous articles that says he can play either position, but it's not worth the effort. He and Wagner were basically interchangeable...

You never saw Scott May play, except maybe games on YouTube or highlights, so I'm not sure your assessment of his skill set could be considered valid. 

Again, you're trying to fit players from different eras the bro today's game and it's not possible. The only thing it achieved is to make the older players look bad. You already gave your thoughts on Quinn Buckner...but you don't know anything about what kind of player he really was or his value to a team. You focus on a physical skill that you disparage...

You cannot see this exercise solely through the prism of today's game, nor try to fit older players into it with their particular "skill set." That only feeds into your narrative that today's game and players are organically better than those of past eras...

 

I know plenty Buckner. How is moving May to the 4 in modern basketball a knock on him? He'd dominate lol 

I'm going to look at this exercise the exact way I view all other basketball. 

I don't recognize that 76 game vs Michigan, as what I have I've seen my entire life playing basketball. We can't look at this exercise and do that. Can't. 

Indiana wasnt even guarded in that game outside of 15ft. 

Could you imagine doing that to Watford or Hulls? Hell even Yogi as a FR? It's lock and load, you can have the motion offense for 2 points. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by btownqb

[btownqb]

11 minutes ago, MoyeCowbell said:

What one player from 5fouls' list of teams -- outside of this year's -- would you add to this year's roster? And could this (or any???) player elevate this team to a national title?

Has to be Alford or VO right? 

So weak on the wing. Watford would be a huge addition, but Race is still very solid. 

If you grabbed VO or Alford.. They're replacing Kopp or Stewart. huge difference 

[13th&Jackson]

10 minutes ago, MoyeCowbell said:

What one player from 5fouls' list of teams -- outside of this year's -- would you add to this year's roster? And could this (or any???) player elevate this team to a national title?

I'd say Alford. Outside shooting is sorely needed. Not only would it increase this team's scoring, but it would open up Trayce and Race even more. They wouldn't win a title though. Probably top 4-5 in B1G though and a Round of 32 with a shot at a Sweet 16. They would still need more scoring from the 3 position.

[AxnJxn]

13 minutes ago, MoyeCowbell said:

What one player from 5fouls' list of teams -- outside of this year's -- would you add to this year's roster? And could this (or any???) player elevate this team to a national title?

Oladipo. This team is desperate for someone else who can create his own shot, can shoot from the outside, and our perimeter defense bumps up a notch, too. 

[IU Scott]

24 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

 

Scott.  I try to help you out when you make a really good post (my post quoted above), and then you blow it all up with a different one (your post quoted above).  I'll give you this year's team, but if you can't find room on the roster for at least one of Oladipo, Watford, or Zeller, your 80's bias is too strong.

IT.

Alford.

May.

Turner.

Benson.

Wittman.

Tolbert.

Buckner

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by IU Scott

[IowaHoosierFan]

4 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

Oladipo. This team is desperate for someone else who can create his own shot, can shoot from the outside, and our perimeter defense bumps up a notch, too. 

Ugh so hard.  Up the defense to top 5 in the country with Vo taking Kopps spot.  Or having a shooter like Alford who pretty much hit a 3 anytime he want from anywhere he wanted.  And i don't mean he was always wide open when did this.  The man might be a giant DB today but when he was playing, he was one of if not the best shooter in the country.  Oh and he also drained free throws at like a 90% clip.  Top 10 all time.  Its hard to think of alford in todays game but man he was good at shooting.  %3 from both FG and 3pt shooting and 90% from free throw as a career.

You would also up the offense with VO but not like Alford.

[IowaHoosierFan]

14 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I'd say Alford. Outside shooting is sorely needed. Not only would it increase this team's scoring, but it would open up Trayce and Race even more. They wouldn't win a title though. Probably top 4-5 in B1G though and a Round of 32 with a shot at a Sweet 16. They would still need more scoring from the 3 position.

They might be a title contender with someone like Alford shootings 3s at a clip and free throw points.  It opens up the double off of TJD and Race.  Allows PS to spot shoot and opens the lane for XJ to slash, shoot or dish.  This team would be hard to beat with a shooter of Alfords caliber averaging 22 a game.  Think about that.  22 more points a game from just one player who spreads the offense out.  Also he averaged 37 minutes a game, so you don't really need to take him out most of the time.

Edited February 11, 2022 by IowaHoosierFan

[GaloisGroupe]

26 minutes ago, MoyeCowbell said:

What one player from 5fouls' list of teams -- outside of this year's -- would you add to this year's roster? And could this (or any???) player elevate this team to a national title?

11 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Has to be Alford or VO right? 

So weak on the wing. Watford would be a huge addition, but Race is still very solid. 

If you grabbed VO or Alford.. They're replacing Kopp or Stewart. huge difference 

Same two I would have looked at... Watford could shoot it as well. 

Response to the second question: NO - unless it is an NBA player in their prime (maybe Lebron or Curry... and even then)

 

 

[IU Scott]

I have a warning to the 20-30 crowd, in 25 years some of you will be just like some of us older fans. Every generation thinks theirs are the best and everything was better.  It just seems like things are better whey you are younger and before you have so much responsibilities.  I know my dad who is 79 use to say the same thing about basketball when I was young.  We use to go to a lot of high school games and he went to the NCAA tournament games with me andy brother.  He had no interest in watching basketball any longer.

 

[btownqb]

Just now, GaloisGroupe said:

Same two I would have looked at... Watford could shoot it as well. 

Response to the second question: NO - unless it is an NBA player in their prime (maybe Lebron or Curry... and even then)

 

 

I get that sentiment and you're probably right. 

But wasnt Alford NPOY his SR and VO was top 3. I mean, hard to really know how good a team is when you add in a NPOY, right? 

I mean, sweet jesus VO and XJ would be a Buckner/Wilkerson combo defensively. And I think its glaringly obvious what Alford would do for us offensively. 

[3Ballin]

1) I. Thomas

2) S. Alford

3) V. Olidipo

4) R. Thompson

5) K. Benson

B) Buckner

B) Yogi

B) Watford

Edited February 11, 2022 by 3Ballin

[AxnJxn]

3 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

They might be a title contender with someone like Alford shootings 3s at a clip and free throw points.  It opens up the double off of TJD and Race.  Allows PS to spot shoot and opens the lane for XJ to slash, shoot or dish.  This team would be hard to beat with a shooter of Alfords caliber averaging 22 a game.  Think about that.  22 more points a game from just one player who spreads the offense out.  Also he averaged 37 minutes a game, so you don't really need to take him out most of the time.

Alford's easily the best pure shooter in the history of IU ball, and he could actually create his own shot on a limited basis now and then. But, he was average at best on the defensive end. That's why I'm going with Vic. Plus, nothing like a rim rattling dunk or emphatic block now and then to really get the crowd into it. 

You wouldn't have the "socks, shorts, 1, 2, 3, swish" FT thing with Vic, though. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 minute ago, AxnJxn said:

Alford's easily the best pure shooter in the history of IU ball, and he could actually create his own shot on a limited basis now and then. But, he was average at best on the defensive end. That's why I'm going with Vic. Plus, nothing like a rim rattling dunk or emphatic block now and then to really get the crowd into it. 

You wouldn't have the "socks, shorts, 1, 2, 3, swish" FT thing with Vic, though. 

Either would help this team lol, i have watched both and i would take the 3 point shooter over the dunker though.  Plus the guy could hit free throws lol

[Seeking6]

2 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

Alford's easily the best pure shooter in the history of IU ball, and he could actually create his own shot on a limited basis now and then. But, he was average at best on the defensive end. That's why I'm going with Vic. Plus, nothing like a rim rattling dunk or emphatic block now and then to really get the crowd into it. 

You wouldn't have the "socks, shorts, 1, 2, 3, swish" FT thing with Vic, though. 

I keep coming back to Alford if he played today. The whole gym knew where the ball was going and Alford would still go for 20. You put in a Yogi or Zeke or any driving type PG who could just send it to Alford? Our PG would average 12 assists and Alford would be in the 22-24 ppg range.

[5fouls]

32 minutes ago, MoyeCowbell said:

What one player from 5fouls' list of teams -- outside of this year's -- would you add to this year's roster? And could this (or any???) player elevate this team to a national title?

The knee-jerk reaction is Alford, because this year's team desperately needs outside shooting.  But, the reality is that not one single player could make this year's team a championship one.  It would take at least 2, but more likely 3,  Probably both need to be shooters.  Alford and who?  May and Watford can both shoot, but would have trouble guarding the wing (assuming both Race and Trayce still start).  Oladipo is absolutely dynamic, but isn't a good enough shooter to stop teams from sagging down to help on TJD, and with just one shooter on the floor, how many open looks would Alford get?

[IowaHoosierFan]

2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

The knee-jerk reaction is Alford, because this year's team desperately needs outside shooting.  But, the reality is that not one single player could make this year's team a championship one.  It would take at least 2, but more likely 3,  Probably both need to be shooters.  Alford and who?  May and Watford can both shoot, but would have trouble guarding the wing (assuming both Race and Trayce still start).  Oladipo is absolutely dynamic, but isn't a good enough shooter to stop teams from sagging down to help on TJD, and with just one shooter on the floor, how many open looks would Alford get?

He fits the need when asked for which "one" player would we choose.  We desperately needs shooting.  He might not average 22 a game, but they have to respect his shooting.  Which means they can't sag him and have to double off XJ or P Stewart if they want to double TJD.  One slashes in, the other makes you pay with a 3.  Could change how we run the offense.  TJD and Race feed each other down low with the lane being more open.  Defense is better, Alford > Kopp on defense.

Just my thoughts.  VO ups your Defense and does add offense.  But not the danger to shoot from the outside which we desperately need.

[IowaHoosierFan]

15 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I have a warning to the 20-30 crowd, in 25 years some of you will be just like some of us older fans. Every generation thinks theirs are the best and everything was better.  It just seems like things are better whey you are younger and before you have so much responsibilities.  I know my dad who is 79 use to say the same thing about basketball when I was young.  We use to go to a lot of high school games and he went to the NCAA tournament games with me andy brother.  He had no interest in watching basketball any longer.

 

You just have the worst possible delivery for what is essentially a valid point.  There are classes you can take to increase your ability to communicate in a less condescending way.