How to fix the Big 10 and its constant failure during March Madness

[IU247]

The Big Ten has had 26 teams make the tournament the last three years and are 4-26 getting to the Sweet 16.

How should the Big 10 (if they actually put their ego aside and realize the problem they created) fix this. 
they have made the big 10 a joke. 

[MoyeCowbell]

Let the teams run and play fast. Stop the nickel and dime, ticky tack BS.

Simple as that. 

[Jeff]

Haha, not trying to follow you @MoyeCowbell, but you have to have the athletes to play that way. I know we actually agree on this. 

[5fouls]

I think part of it is a turnover in coaches and coaching philosophy.  Izzo, Painter, Gard, and Piekell are never going to change style.  For Painter and Gard, it's the only way they can win.  Izzo probably plays that way because it wins than it is a necessity like it is for Painter and Gard.  

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

I think part of it is a turnover in coaches and coaching philosophy.  Izzo, Painter, Gard, and Piekell are never going to change style.  For Painter and Gard, it's the only way they can win.  Izzo probably plays that way because it wins than it is a necessity like it is for Painter and Gard.  

Funny thing early on his career at MSU they were know for their fast breaking style if basketball. They would even run after the other team makes a shot

[IUskim]

7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Funny thing early on his career at MSU they were know for their fast breaking style if basketball. They would even run after the other team makes a shot

They got out and ran a lot today in the Marquette game. I think he still wants to run he just doesn’t have the same players he use to. 

[Jeff]

I don’t like it, but we’re seeing the same thing we’ve seen in college football.  The teams with the best athletes, i.e. the SEC for the most part, are the teams that are winning the big games. IU and the B10 ( I really only care about IU), have to start getting some of those guys to really compete. 

[SawatchHoosier]

13 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Funny thing early on his career at MSU they were know for their fast breaking style if basketball. They would even run after the other team makes a shot

Mateen Cleaves was unstoppable in 2000.

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, Jeff said:

I don’t like it, but we’re seeing the same thing we’ve seen in college football.  The teams with the best athletes, i.e. the SEC for the most part, are the teams that are winning the big games. IU and the B10 ( I really only care about IU), have to start getting some of those guys to really compete. 

Some obnoxious poster in the pre-game thread kept trying to claim that it can't only be IU, but the whole conference needs to show better in the post-season.  

[Danomatic]

20 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I think part of it is a turnover in coaches and coaching philosophy.  Izzo, Painter, Gard, and Piekell are never going to change style.  For Painter and Gard, it's the only way they can win.  Izzo probably plays that way because it wins than it is a necessity like it is for Painter and Gard.  

Just said this earlier. Coaching is what’s holding this league back. I think Woody would like to get up and go, but not sure that any other coach in the league is willing to embrace this style of play.

[Jeff]

With all due respect, Dano, who cares what the other coaches want?  Recruit stud athletes to IU!  Make other BIG coaches pay for not doing so!

[BruceDouglas]

9 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I think part of it is a turnover in coaches and coaching philosophy.  Izzo, Painter, Gard, and Piekell are never going to change style.  For Painter and Gard, it's the only way they can win.  Izzo probably plays that way because it wins than it is a necessity like it is for Painter and Gard.  

I do think this is a big part of it, too much focus on defense. And a lot of that is because the league isn't getting the top players/athletes. When you are limited in those respects, the path to winning is by slowing things down and playing tough defense. Also as you mention, a lot of these guys have systems that they coach/recruit to because it works to get them 20 wins but tends to fall apart against better teams. And I also think this leads to the "overrating" of the Big Ten because these teams tend to be older and thus ahead of the game in Nov/Dec where they pile up some good wins that jump start the overall conference metrics. But by March the SEC type teams have jelled and the talent wins out.

More specifically, the conference doesn't have enough good guards. MSU has the best group and that's a big part of why they made it to the next weekend.

[Zuckerkorn]

Anyone else notice how few fouls were being called, especially in last night's game.  Had it been a BT game both teams would have had double the fouls called on them it seems.

[MoyeCowbell]

14 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Anyone else notice how few fouls were being called, especially in last night's game.  Had it been a BT game both teams would have had double the fouls called on them it seems.

It might not be much, or maybe it is, but the rhythm and flow of a game that is allowed to go without stoppages affects endurance and fitness. Athletes that can run unimpeded are allowed to do so to extreme benefit. The plodding of the B1G with the constant fouls/stoppages allows for mini-breathers, which can equalize the endurance of players, but will expose those who aren't able to 'run' for extended periods of time -- time when 8-0 runs can occur and change the game.

[tdhoosier]

It seems like there's not a cohesive argument made about officiating, to be honest. 

In the same breath we'll say: the officials call fouls so much that the game has no flow. And then we'll also say the B1G is overly aggressive and the officials don't call enough fouls. 

Can't have it both ways or am I missing something? 

[IU Scott]

13 hours ago, Jeff said:

With all due respect, Dano, who cares what the other coaches want?  Recruit stud athletes to IU!  Make other BIG coaches pay for not doing so!

Stud athletes don't want to play the big ten style of play. We all thought we were going to get Clowney last year and he is a perfect example of the kind of athlete we need. Instead he goes to Alabama where they play up and down in the SEC and he thrived.

[HoosierDPU95]

I'm not at all trying to be snarky here.... I really don't understand how the "league" has as much influence as some are saying.

If a different style of play with a different make-up of "player types" is the reason the Big 10 schools are not having success in the tournaments (I'm including the NIT here as well) then wouldn't a program making those adjustments have more success in conference play as well? For example, would that Miami team not have been successful in the Big 10 this year?

[HoosierDom]

We have a lot of contradictory statements in threads like this. People like to say that the BIG is too physical, and that leads to bad results. But, then we get people acknowledging the obvious from last night, fouls were not being called, and thus physical play was allowed. The truth, I think, is that college basketball if physical everywhere. Our officials might be more inconsistent, but that's largely true of any college game I watch.

I think the issues are,

1) And this one is the most important, the conferences struggles are overstated. They only exist at all over the last 3 years, if you go back 10-20 years our overall record is great, our number of teams reaching the Sweet 16 and the Final 4 are great. Even over the last 3 years, we've only had a few under-perform their seeds. Our collection of 7-10 seeds losing in the second round is not a terrible performance - it's what is supposed to happen. We've certainly under-performed as a conference, but it isn't some disaster.

2) There aren't as many bad teams in our conference as in most others, so the tournament bound teams don't get a steady diet of fairly easy quad 2 wins that lead to good seeds. We also cannibalize each other's recruiting. Turn Ohio State into a Georgia level program, then take half of their players over the last 5 years and pass them out between us, MSU, Michigan and Maryland, and all of a sudden the 4 of us have some really stacked rosters.

3) We don't have anyone getting the Kansas, Kentucky, Duke level of recruits. Maybe with NIL that will start to change. But it's hard to be good every year without a steady stream of top 50 guys.

[Purdue7]

Watch UConn & Tenn maul opponents and tell me big ten is too physical?

 

[kyhoosier29]

Don’t think it has anything to do with the officiating like we continue to insinuate. The Miami game was about as physical a game all year and not much was called to change that. Just need better athletes at IU. 

[Boiler Sam]

On 3/19/2023 at 11:32 PM, IU247 said:

The Big Ten has had 26 teams make the tournament the last three years and are 4-26 getting to the Sweet 16.

How should the Big 10 (if they actually put their ego aside and realize the problem they created) fix this. 
they have made the big 10 a joke. 

Figure out a way to let its schools use their TV money to legally buy players out of the portal without worrying about the NCAA nerds.

[tdhoosier]

On 3/19/2023 at 10:32 PM, IU247 said:

The Big Ten has had 26 teams make the tournament the last three years and are 4-26 getting to the Sweet 16.

I was just listening to a Don Fisher interview and learned an interesting coincidence: In 2018-19 the conference switched to a 20 game schedule. That's the last 3 years for ya. Funny enough the ONLY team to make the sweet 16 this year is MSU and they played only played 19 games! hmmmmm. haha. 

Combine this with the strength and depth of the league: teams don't get any nights off. We typically don't have more than one team to beat up on and give our starters some rest. Then combine this with the physicality of the league and coaches who prefer to grind out games. Guys are tired!

And now we're going to add some trips to California. With the added teams, are they going to switch to a 22 game schedule? 

One thing I can believe is that the number of games we play is not going to be decreased after those huge television contracts. 

I realize that other factors are involved for our lack of success, but thought this was a really interesting observation. 

Edited March 22 by tdhoosier