McRoberts/Scholarship

[KoB2011]

6 minutes ago, CapnRon said:

The family money isn't the reason he isn't getting a scholarship, it's the reason he shouldn't care about the scholarship, and the reason we shouldn't be offended for him.

The family money shouldn't be a factor in any of it. For you to say he shouldn't care about his own finances because his brother has money is extremely out of line. 

It's possible Zach told Miller to give it to someone else; great for Zach if that happened. If that didn't happened, he deserved the scholarship regardless of how much money his brother or parents have. He earned it in every way possible. 

[KoB2011]

3 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Most likely, Archie didn’t offer him the scholarship, and he didn’t want/expect it.  He came to IU with the expectation of not playing basketball at all, decided he missed it, and walked onto the team.  Anything he’s getting now is a bonus.  To act like Archie should have offered the extra scholarship to him first is silly.  Plenty of major college teams have walk-ons like McBob, and I’m sure he and the staff realized that.

No, plenty of major college teams don't have former D1 players that are now walk-ons and start. He was our third best player last season. 

[CapnRon]

20 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

The family money shouldn't be a factor in any of it. For you to say he shouldn't care about his own finances because his brother has money is extremely out of line. 

It's possible Zach told Miller to give it to someone else; great for Zach if that happened. If that didn't happened, he deserved the scholarship regardless of how much money his brother or parents have. He earned it in every way possible. 

Nobody is say the money is why he isn't getting the scholarship lol. For you to say he should care that he isn't getting a scholarship is "out of line".  Go get offended about something else.  This is silly.

[5fouls]

10 minutes ago, CapnRon said:

Nobody is say the money is why he isn't getting the scholarship lol. For you to say he should care that he isn't getting a scholarship is "out of line".  Go get offended about something else.  This is silly.

Now that you mention it, i am extremely offended that the Falcons gave Matt Ryan 100 million instead of me.  

[KoB2011]

25 minutes ago, CapnRon said:

Nobody is say the money is why he isn't getting the scholarship lol. For you to say he should care that he isn't getting a scholarship is "out of line".  Go get offended about something else.  This is silly.

I didnt say he should care. I have said multiple times that if he told Archie to do something else with it that's great for Zach. 

You're the one who brought his family money into this and said he doesn't need one. 

[CapnRon]

10 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I didnt say he should care. I have said multiple times that if he told Archie to do something else with it that's great for Zach. 

You're the one who brought his family money into this and said he doesn't need one. 

Then what is your whole point?  This is the nature of college basketball.  He came on as a walk-on, that is his reward.  His hard work and great play has earned him more playing time, which is another reward.  He gets to be a God on campus, another reward.  He could not have got a scholarship last year, and Archie is trying to rebuild a lackluster IU program with his own players that are better suited for his system. He needs every scholarship he can get to keep a fan base with extremely high expectations happy.  So that is why he isn't getting a scholarship.

His family money is why he won't care as much as you do about the issue.

[StLHoosier]

I’m sure if that last scholly wouldn’t have been filled, it would have been given to Zach.  Saying that, I’m glad it went to lure another player here that can help the team in a way that they desperately need.  With Davis’s status up in the air, we needed some experience in the front court, as well as someone who can stretch the defense. It just so happens that we got a guy who gives us both.  

[PoHoosier]

53 minutes ago, CapnRon said:

Then what is your whole point?  This is the nature of college basketball.  He came on as a walk-on, that is his reward.  His hard work and great play has earned him more playing time, which is another reward.  He gets to be a God on campus, another reward.  He could not have got a scholarship last year, and Archie is trying to rebuild a lackluster IU program with his own players that are better suited for his system. He needs every scholarship he can get to keep a fan base with extremely high expectations happy.  So that is why he isn't getting a scholarship.

His family money is why he won't care as much as you do about the issue.

I have tried my best staying out of this debate, despite it being a great debate.  A great deal of passion for the team and university we all love in this thread and we all see it great when one values the whole greater than self.  After all, most of us believe we would do the same in this situation.

To me, its all a matter of attitude.  Did McRoberts play better than starters or bench players on scolarship last year?  We can throw all kinds of questions in this vein as it involves someone else.  Its natural and easy for us to do so.  To see where you really fall put a personal touch out of it.  Have you ever been upset someone else got the same pay raise you did or perhaps someone else received a grade you felt was undeserving?  Maybe it was a promotion where someone took credit for your work.

All of these are situations that I have been on the 'growing/learning' end of.  It was up to me how I responded.  I found others were upset for me much like in this situation.  I felt wrong decisions had a way of working themselves out, albeit - eventually.  People making bad decisions that I was on the 'short end' of was more of a reflection on them than myself.  I also believed or hoped they would learn from it as well.  I feel while Zach deserved an offer, he probably did what was best for the team.  I like to believe and find it probable that CAM and Zach had a lengthy conversation about this knowing CAM is straitforward and sensical.

I quote your post because of one line, and its recency'...his own players better suited for his system'.  The answer is that we will see as we have not seen McRoberts get a start as over CAMs recruited players.

I know some disagree with KoB or myself on this issue, its expected.  Final thought, to expect Zach didn't deserve to even be offered a scholarship as a walkon is to imply he or his play was lacking.  I come with all of this on a white flag of what I hope is perceived as rational thought.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, CapnRon said:

Then what is your whole point?  This is the nature of college basketball.  He came on as a walk-on, that is his reward.  His hard work and great play has earned him more playing time, which is another reward.  He gets to be a God on campus, another reward.  He could not have got a scholarship last year, and Archie is trying to rebuild a lackluster IU program with his own players that are better suited for his system. He needs every scholarship he can get to keep a fan base with extremely high expectations happy.  So that is why he isn't getting a scholarship.

His family money is why he won't care as much as you do about the issue.

I have no idea how much he cares and neither do you. I've admitted I don't know repeatedly, you keep saying you do know he doesn't care because of the money. It's stupid thing to say without inside information; do you have that? 

I'm not outraged at Archie or anyone else. I don't have enough information for that; Zach has earned a scholarship, rather or not it was offered or accepted is between him and Archie. 

I've probably been the biggest Archie cheerleader on the board dating back to before we even knew Crean was going to be fired but that doesn't mean I can't think he messed up in a hypothetical situation. If it comes out Zach didn't get a scholarship offer I won't like it, I'll vehemently disagree with Archie and still be thrilled he is our coach. 

[KoB2011]

13 minutes ago, PoHoosier said:

I have tried my best staying out of this debate, despite it being a great debate.  A great deal of passion for the team and university we all love in this thread and we all see it great when one values the whole greater than self.  After all, most of us believe we would do the same in this situation.

To me, its all a matter of attitude.  Did McRoberts play better than starters or bench players on scolarship last year?  We can throw all kinds of questions in this vein as it involves someone else.  Its natural and easy for us to do so.  To see where you really fall put a personal touch out of it.  Have you ever been upset someone else got the same pay raise you did or perhaps someone else received a grade you felt was undeserving?  Maybe it was a promotion where someone took credit for your work.

All of these are situations that I have been on the 'growing/learning' end of.  It was up to me how I responded.  I found others were upset for me much like in this situation.  I felt wrong decisions had a way of working themselves out, albeit - eventually.  People making bad decisions that I was on the 'short end' of was more of a reflection on them than myself.  I also believed or hoped they would learn from it as well.  I feel while Zach deserved an offer, he probably did what was best for the team.  I like to believe and find it probable that CAM and Zach had a lengthy conversation about this knowing CAM is straitforward and sensical.

I quote your post because of one line, and its recency'...his own players better suited for his system'.  The answer is that we will see as we have not seen McRoberts get a start as over CAMs recruited players.

I know some disagree with KoB or myself on this issue, its expected.  Final thought, to expect Zach didn't deserve to even be offered a scholarship as a walkon is to imply he or his play was lacking.  I come with all of this on a white flag of what I hope is perceived as rational thought.

Very well stated. Zach did everything he was asked and more. 

I, like you, believe he and Archie came to a mutual decision about the scholarship. I think that says a lot about both of them. 

Either way, Zach deserves to be a Hoosier favorite. He has earned his Candy Stripes ten times over. 

[hoosiertildeath]

I just hope that he has a good season in 2018-2019 !!!!!!

[5fouls]

I am still not convinced that he could not have been given Jones scholly for the 2nd semester.  Jones was no longer in school.  When he enrolled at Okie St, did he not get a scholly from them?  I swear Rick Pitino was able to do that a few years ago at UL.

[FKIM01]

3 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I am still not convinced that he could not have been given Jones scholly for the 2nd semester.  Jones was no longer in school.  When he enrolled at Okie St, did he not get a scholly from them?  I swear Rick Pitino was able to do that a few years ago at UL.

I'm guessing he went into the season with an open scholarship that went unused first semester. IU did not unfortunately. 

I'd just about guarantee if Archie could have, he would have.

[5fouls]

On phone so I dont know how to link.  But the NCAA rules I just read said a school could cancel a scholly during the term for several reasons, one of which is if the player 'quits the team for personal reasons'.  To me, that means Jones scholly was freed up the minute he left IU.  It also makes no sense that both IU and OSU would be on the hook for Jones during the second semester.  

[CapnRon]

41 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I have no idea how much he cares and neither do you. I've admitted I don't know repeatedly, you keep saying you do know he doesn't care because of the money. It's stupid thing to say without inside information; do you have that? 

I'm not outraged at Archie or anyone else. I don't have enough information for that; Zach has earned a scholarship, rather or not it was offered or accepted is between him and Archie. 

I've probably been the biggest Archie cheerleader on the board dating back to before we even knew Crean was going to be fired but that doesn't mean I can't think he messed up in a hypothetical situation. If it comes out Zach didn't get a scholarship offer I won't like it, I'll vehemently disagree with Archie and still be thrilled he is our coach. 

We are both giving an opinion, how is that stupid?  You're whole work analogy is based on someone getting screwed financially which implies them caring about being treated unfairly. Maybe you didn't use the word "care" but now you are arguing semantics which is pointless. I'll assume your main point is he deserves a scholly, and I believe that no school of this caliber would give him one in this situation, and mcroberts is smart enough to understand why. You are hung up on my comment about the 6 mil a year josh makes to easily pay his tuition.  Nobody owes zach anything for doing what he was asked to do in the first place, other than gratitude.

[NotIThatLives]

My brother makes very good money and I've never asked him for a dime.  Would he offer it if I needed? Maybe. And who knows maybe we have someone else that's fixing to transfer and maybe McRoberts winds up getting the scholarship anyhow???

[Seeking6]

8 hours ago, CapnRon said:

Then what is your whole point?  This is the nature of college basketball.  He came on as a walk-on, that is his reward.  His hard work and great play has earned him more playing time, which is another reward.  He gets to be a God on campus, another reward.  He could not have got a scholarship last year, and Archie is trying to rebuild a lackluster IU program with his own players that are better suited for his system. He needs every scholarship he can get to keep a fan base with extremely high expectations happy.  So that is why he isn't getting a scholarship.

His family money is why he won't care as much as you do about the issue.

Pretty much in line with my thoughts. People think $ is the reward. You've outlined the reward is playing time and more playing time at a school like IU after ZM decided to walk away from hoops. Nice post!

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

Pretty much in line with my thoughts. People think $ is the reward. You've outlined the reward is playing time and more playing time at a school like IU after ZM decided to walk away from hoops. Nice post!

Which people think money is the reward? I haven't seen anyone post that; the only money post I've seen is people saying he shouldnt care because his brother has money. 

 

6 hours ago, CapnRon said:

We are both giving an opinion, how is that stupid?  You're whole work analogy is based on someone getting screwed financially which implies them caring about being treated unfairly. Maybe you didn't use the word "care" but now you are arguing semantics which is pointless. I'll assume your main point is he deserves a scholly, and I believe that no school of this caliber would give him one in this situation, and mcroberts is smart enough to understand why. You are hung up on my comment about the 6 mil a year josh makes to easily pay his tuition.  Nobody owes zach anything for doing what he was asked to do in the first place, other than gratitude.

My point is that he has EARNED the first right of refusal. Good organizations reward hard work, not take advantage of it. 

I hope Archie gave him that choice. I'll be disappointed in Archie if he didn't. 

[CapnRon]

3 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

My brother makes very good money and I've never asked him for a dime.  Would he offer it if I needed? Maybe. And who knows maybe we have someone else that's fixing to transfer and maybe McRoberts winds up getting the scholarship anyhow???

See if he'll give me some

[5fouls]

I know it's not the exactly same thing (him not being my brother and all), but I texted Josh McRoberts this morning and asked him for $40,000.  He politely declined.  

[FKIM01]

8 hours ago, 5fouls said:

On phone so I dont know how to link.  But the NCAA rules I just read said a school could cancel a scholly during the term for several reasons, one of which is if the player 'quits the team for personal reasons'.  To me, that means Jones scholly was freed up the minute he left IU.  It also makes no sense that both IU and OSU would be on the hook for Jones during the second semester.  

Scholarships are one year renewable and I don't believe they can be parceled out to another recipient if they were assigned to a student at the beginning of the school year. We've had this discussion after Curtis left and I'm pretty sure the answer was no, the second semester cannot be assigned to another student. I wish whoever had that definitive answer would again speak up and put this to rest.

[5fouls]

Here's a comparable analogy in my area of expertise.  Let's say that you have a dedicated, dependable, intelligent woman to move in with you.  At first, it's a 'let's see how this works' type of thing.  Over time, however, you realize that she is even more than you ever dreamed.  She becomes a critical part of your life.  You depend on her for key successes in your life.  At some point, the opportunity for marriage presents itself.  She may not come out and directly ask, but you think she might be interested in the concept.  For your part, you love everything about her, everything she does for you.  But, you know that she's not going to leave you either way, so you decide to avoid commitment.  You're getting the same thing either way.  You have nothing specifically against marriage.  In fact, you've proposed marriage (offered scholarships) twelve other times.  But, knowing you can get what you want/need in this case without proposing marriage, you don't even ask her to see how she feels.  After all, when the relationship was originally formed, there was no promise of commitment.  

[5fouls]

5 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Scholarships are one year renewable and I don't believe they can be parceled out to another recipient if they were assigned to a student at the beginning of the school year. We've had this discussion after Curtis left and I'm pretty sure the answer was no, the second semester cannot be assigned to another student. I wish whoever had that definitive answer would again speak up and put this to rest.

I don't see how IU and Okie State can both be on the hook for the same player during the same time-frame.  That approach would imply that Curtis was actually using our scholly the second semester while attending OSU.  That makes no sense.  I get that IU could not have decided they didn't want Curtis any more over Christmas break and brought in someone else.  But, Curtis left on his own.  

And, even if someone claimed on here to know the answer, how do we know they really did.  Claiming knowledge about something does not make it true.  

 .  

[KoB2011]

1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

I don't see how IU and Okie State can both be on the hook for the same player during the same time-frame.  That approach would imply that Curtis was actually using our scholly the second semester while attending OSU.  That makes no sense.  I get that IU could not have decided they didn't want Curtis any more over Christmas break and brought in someone else.  But, Curtis left on his own.  

And, even if someone claimed on here to know the answer, how do we know they really did.  Claiming knowledge about something does not make it true.  

 .  

I think IU actually addressed it and said it couldn't happen. 

[5fouls]

4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think IU actually addressed it and said it couldn't happen. 

Ahhh.  What the hell do they know.