Rev_AK Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 By reading the Twitter feed, ( Dakich was all over Assembly Call yesterday, and Dackich has the RMK loyalists whipped into a frenzy) and other forums and social media, It is clear and concerning to me that our fan base has completely had it. Since the Syracuse game in ‘13, we have slowly and painfully realized that we were, in fact, NOT relevant again. We are NOT “back”. Crean overstayed his welcome by about 3 seasons, and his interest seemed to wane. Folks point out that we won the B1G in ‘16, But I’ll point out that season turned around after Yogi started “running” huddles during time outs. Enter Archie, and the mess the roster was in when he came. The elation we felt when Romeo committed and the excitement about a new coach/ New system have been destroyed ( to quote the Purdue syncophants at the IndyStar) by a losing streak and an abnormal amount of injuries. Couple that with a jaded ex coach/ player who has a national platform to whip up the “old guard” against the new regime, and an angry national climate, and I wonder if our fan base has lost its bearing a little and it’s collective patience. No fault of Archie’s, just a build up ( and release) of 20 or more years of wandering in the wilderness. I think that has elevated this forum as one of the few places to find a refuge of common sense and decorum. I don’t have to answer, but Jerod of the Assembly Call pointed out yesterday that no one eats it’s own better than IU. We could scare away Keion, other recruits, and the Miller family, and poison IU as a landing spot for other future AD’s or coaches. Calm down out there folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUDan93 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Morgan showed a superior effort on the boards for a long stretch yesterday. Rebounding killed us the past 2-3 games, so it seems there was an an effort there that had been lacking. This is the key to Archie's teams, effort. We play long stretches with no one taller than Morgan who is 6-7 to 6-8. Effort and team rebounding always seems to create a swagger that pumps life into a team. I don't care what sets CAM creates to get people in positions to best succeed, without attitude, energy and a healthy dose of swag typically fixes all problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUDan93 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Rev_AK said: By reading the Twitter feed, ( Dakich was all over Assembly Call yesterday, and Dackich has the RMK loyalists whipped into a frenzy) and other forums and social media, It is clear and concerning to me that our fan base has completely had it. Since the Syracuse game in ‘13, we have slowly and painfully realized that we were, in fact, NOT relevant again. We are NOT “back”. Crean overstayed his welcome by about 3 seasons, and his interest seemed to wane. Folks point out that we won the B1G in ‘16, But I’ll point out that season turned around after Yogi started “running” huddles during time outs. Enter Archie, and the mess the roster was in when he came. The elation we felt when Romeo committed and the excitement about a new coach/ New system have been destroyed ( to quote the Purdue syncophants at the IndyStar) by a losing streak and an abnormal amount of injuries. Couple that with a jaded ex coach/ player who has a national platform to whip up the “old guard” against the new regime, and an angry national climate, and I wonder if our fan base has lost its bearing a little and it’s collective patience. No fault of Archie’s, just a build up ( and release) of 20 or more years of wandering in the wilderness. I think that has elevated this forum as one of the few places to find a refuge of common sense and decorum. I don’t have to answer, but Jerod of the Assembly Call pointed out yesterday that no one eats it’s own better than IU. We could scare away Keion, other recruits, and the Miller family, and poison IU as a landing spot for other future AD’s or coaches. Calm down out there folks. I agree with this sentiment. If CAM is able to bring us back from the wilderness, he will forever be a legend in the state. The IU coaching job has a great payoff, but also the potential for misery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, Rev_AK said: By reading the Twitter feed, ( Dakich was all over Assembly Call yesterday, and Dackich has the RMK loyalists whipped into a frenzy) and other forums and social media, It is clear and concerning to me that our fan base has completely had it. Since the Syracuse game in ‘13, we have slowly and painfully realized that we were, in fact, NOT relevant again. We are NOT “back”. Crean overstayed his welcome by about 3 seasons, and his interest seemed to wane. Folks point out that we won the B1G in ‘16, But I’ll point out that season turned around after Yogi started “running” huddles during time outs. Enter Archie, and the mess the roster was in when he came. The elation we felt when Romeo committed and the excitement about a new coach/ New system have been destroyed ( to quote the Purdue syncophants at the IndyStar) by a losing streak and an abnormal amount of injuries. Couple that with a jaded ex coach/ player who has a national platform to whip up the “old guard” against the new regime, and an angry national climate, and I wonder if our fan base has lost its bearing a little and it’s collective patience. No fault of Archie’s, just a build up ( and release) of 20 or more years of wandering in the wilderness. I think that has elevated this forum as one of the few places to find a refuge of common sense and decorum. I don’t have to answer, but Jerod of the Assembly Call pointed out yesterday that no one eats it’s own better than IU. We could scare away Keion, other recruits, and the Miller family, and poison IU as a landing spot for other future AD’s or coaches. Calm down out there folks. During his broadcast of the UM and UW game they had an ESPN draft guy talking about the big ten players draft rankings. When he brought up Romeo as the top ranked draft prospect DD took his chance to rip Romeo talking about all the things he thought Romeo did not do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, IU Scott said: During his broadcast of the UM and UW game they had an ESPN draft guy talking about the big ten players draft rankings. When he brought up Romeo as the top ranked draft prospect DD took his chance to rip Romeo talking about all the things he thought Romeo did not do well. Did not hear what he said, and I would probably agree. All the greats have an edge, they for the most part trash talk and play with a swagger. Romeo is a guy who everyone wants on their team - no doubt. Wish he had the swagger. Not saying he doesn't, body language does not portray the swagger the top players had. Growing up in Chicago i loved the stories of MJ in practice and games. This attitude is displayed by others in the league that are all stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev_AK Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, IU Scott said: During his broadcast of the UM and UW game they had an ESPN draft guy talking about the big ten players draft rankings. When he brought up Romeo as the top ranked draft prospect DD took his chance to rip Romeo talking about all the things he thought Romeo did not do well. Dakich is pulling out all the stops and is going for the scorched-earth policy. It seems to me it is unprecedented, at least on the scale he is doing it. Now the IndyStar is chiming in. My theory: destroy Archie’s tenure and crest public ground swell among RMK loyalists to place Alford in? Either way, the criticism should have been done behind closed doors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 22 minutes ago, Rev_AK said: By reading the Twitter feed, ( Dakich was all over Assembly Call yesterday, and Dackich has the RMK loyalists whipped into a frenzy) and other forums and social media, It is clear and concerning to me that our fan base has completely had it. Since the Syracuse game in ‘13, we have slowly and painfully realized that we were, in fact, NOT relevant again. We are NOT “back”. Crean overstayed his welcome by about 3 seasons, and his interest seemed to wane. Folks point out that we won the B1G in ‘16, But I’ll point out that season turned around after Yogi started “running” huddles during time outs. Enter Archie, and the mess the roster was in when he came. The elation we felt when Romeo committed and the excitement about a new coach/ New system have been destroyed ( to quote the Purdue syncophants at the IndyStar) by a losing streak and an abnormal amount of injuries. Couple that with a jaded ex coach/ player who has a national platform to whip up the “old guard” against the new regime, and an angry national climate, and I wonder if our fan base has lost its bearing a little and it’s collective patience. No fault of Archie’s, just a build up ( and release) of 20 or more years of wandering in the wilderness. I think that has elevated this forum as one of the few places to find a refuge of common sense and decorum. I don’t have to answer, but Jerod of the Assembly Call pointed out yesterday that no one eats it’s own better than IU. We could scare away Keion, other recruits, and the Miller family, and poison IU as a landing spot for other future AD’s or coaches. Calm down out there folks. The fanbase is pissed because they reasonably expected a team stocked with two NBA players (one an all-conference senior and the other an Indiana high school legend) and multiple other three and four star recruits to at least be safely in the tournament, not a bubble team. The narrative getting pushed that IU has “no talent” is just BS, and most fans aren’t buying it, rightfully so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev_AK Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 I agree, BUT, as much love and as many accolades as MCBob gets, is he really a starter in the Big Ten? Al is a great kid, love his attitude, but is he an offensive threat? Rob was playing well but got hit with foul trouble. ( we can all agree Archie is overly afraid of foul trouble, and we need only look at Arkansas game for that) Justin is improving but cannot catch the ball in traffic. This is an incomplete team....And how can a team be “stocked” with NBA talent if it has 1 first rounder and one early second rounder who is playing out of position?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1. Dakich is simply an idiot, and one with a tired agenda. If you give him any benefit of the doubt, you’ve done yourself and everyone here a disservice. 2. This is what happens during losing streaks. People stop seeing the proverbial forest through the trees. This is the same team that had 2 losses (one from a missed tip in) entering this stretch that literally everyone recognized was going to be a juggernaut. Same team that won several 1 basket games. 3. However we are, still, lacking shooters. We couldn’t buy a basket at Purdue. We need guys who can spread the floor. Thought Fitz would help on that end but he’s fallen off after a good start. Having Hunter would’ve helped. 4. Also think CAM is going to need to adjust his offensive approach. Some of this fall off is on him. I think he gets that. 5. Next several games will tell us if the team, and Cam, Can right the ship. Don’t forget we should have won at MD. Man that would have helped. Of course we didn’t win, and blew a big lead, but it’s also a game that reflects the potential. Potential is still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 25 minutes ago, Rev_AK said: I agree, BUT, as much love and as many accolades as MCBob gets, is he really a starter in the Big Ten? Al is a great kid, love his attitude, but is he an offensive threat? Rob was playing well but got hit with foul trouble. ( we can all agree Archie is overly afraid of foul trouble, and we need only look at Arkansas game for that) Justin is improving but cannot catch the ball in traffic. This is an incomplete team....And how can a team be “stocked” with NBA talent if it has 1 first rounder and one early second rounder who is playing out of position?? I meant the team is stocked with multiple 3 and 4 star recruits along with 2 NBA players, which should be more than enough to be safely in the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 26 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: 1. Dakich is simply an idiot, and one with a tired agenda. If you give him any benefit of the doubt, you’ve done yourself and everyone here a disservice. 2. This is what happens during losing streaks. People stop seeing the proverbial forest through the trees. This is the same team that had 2 losses (one from a missed tip in) entering this stretch that literally everyone recognized was going to be a juggernaut. Same team that won several 1 basket games. 3. However we are, still, lacking shooters. We couldn’t buy a basket at Purdue. We need guys who can spread the floor. Thought Fitz would help on that end but he’s fallen off after a good start. Having Hunter would’ve helped. 4. Also think CAM is going to need to adjust his offensive approach. Some of this fall off is on him. I think he gets that. 5. Next several games will tell us if the team, and Cam, Can right the ship. Don’t forget we should have won at MD. Man that would have helped. Of course we didn’t win, and blew a big lead, but it’s also a game that reflects the potential. Potential is still there. We have 5 players shooting 35% from three or better (Green 35.6%, Fitzner 38.5%, Phinisee 40.0%, Morgan 40.0%, Durham 40.8%). And that’s not to mention Anderson, who’s shooting 33% in very limited playing time. We have players that can shoot, they’re just not getting good looks consistently. And they seem to have been scared into passing up the few good looks they do get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchenry34 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 28 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: We have 5 players shooting 35% from three or better (Green 35.6%, Fitzner 38.5%, Phinisee 40.0%, Morgan 40.0%, Durham 40.8%). And that’s not to mention Anderson, who’s shooting 33% in very limited playing time. We have players that can shoot, they’re just not getting good looks consistently. And they seem to have been scared into passing up the few good looks they do get. Isolating yesterday's game, I would say that of the three point shots that we took only three of them were really even contested. Romeo had one blocked and both he and Phinisee had to take one late in the shot clock where their defender was still on them... Saying that Green is a shooter misses the fact that most of his makes come from two games. Take away the Marquette game and see what happens to Fitzner's numbers.Yesterday demonstrated yet again why Anderson is not quite ready...Did not know the out of bounds play they were running and was targeted by Purdue defensively... The thing that I would emphasize is that they pass up wide open looks and often have to settle for less open looks later in the game or later in the shot clock. Phinisee began to take them in rhythm off the catch yesterday...That needs to become the norm for others as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threedom Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 with the offense struggling so bad, it would be nice to see some attempt at a transition offense ala MSU. They get 8-12 points a game off made shots simply by sprinting down in a purposeful way combined with a forward pass. Don’t really see any attempt at this on made or missed shots for our beloved Hoosiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, mchenry34 said: Isolating yesterday's game, I would say that of the three point shots that we took only three of them were really even contested. Romeo had one blocked and both he and Phinisee had to take one late in the shot clock where their defender was still on them... Saying that Green is a shooter misses the fact that most of his makes come from two games. Take away the Marquette game and see what happens to Fitzner's numbers.Yesterday demonstrated yet again why Anderson is not quite ready...Did not know the out of bounds play they were running and was targeted by Purdue defensively... The thing that I would emphasize is that they pass up wide open looks and often have to settle for less open looks later in the game or later in the shot clock. Phinisee began to take them in rhythm off the catch yesterday...That needs to become the norm for others as well. I’m not going to pretend to clearly remember every one of our 20 three point attempts yesterday, but I’m pretty positive you’re wrong about only three attempts being contested. Just as one example, the contested three off the dribble that Durham jacked up at the end of the first half (great offensive possession there). Fitzner has been terrible outside of the Marquette game this year, but he was an elite catch and shoot three point shooter for his entire career until he got to IU. He’s not getting good looks in our offense. Green’s not an elite shooter or very consistent, but he’s still usually good for at least one or two threes a game. As for Anderson, he’s not the only player making dumb mistakes throughout a game, so I don’t see why he should be singled out for messing up one out of bounds play. And my point is, I think they’re passing up wide open looks because they’ve been instructed to strictly limit their three point attempts. The team isn’t shooting well at least partly because our players aren’t being allowed to get in a rhythm and gain confidence. I don’t think that approach is going to very successful in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchenry34 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Threedom said: with the offense struggling so bad, it would be nice to see some attempt at a transition offense ala MSU. They get 8-12 points a game off made shots simply by sprinting down in a purposeful way combined with a forward pass. Don’t really see any attempt at this on made or missed shots for our beloved Hoosiers. Agreed...The coaching staff is going to have to live with some mistakes from the bench so that they can play a higher tempo...Will help to mitigate the lack of shooting to an extent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchenry34 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: I’m not going to pretend to clearly remember every one of our 20 three point attempts yesterday, but I’m pretty positive you’re wrong about only three attempts being contested. Just as one example, the contested three off the dribble that Durham jacked up at the end of the first half (great offensive possession there). Fitzner has been terrible outside of the Marquette game this year, but he was an elite catch and shoot three point shooter for his entire career until he got to IU. He’s not getting good looks in our offense. Green’s not an elite shooter or very consistent, but he’s still usually good for at least one or two threes a game. As for Anderson, he’s not the only player making dumb mistakes throughout a game, so I don’t see why he should be singled out for messing up one out of bounds play. And my point is, I think they’re passing up wide open looks because they’ve been instructed to strictly limit their three point attempts. The team isn’t shooting well at least partly because our players aren’t being allowed to get in a rhythm and gain confidence. I don’t think that approach is going to very successful in the long run. I agree that the coaching staff must have tightened the reigns in December when trying to clamp down on turnovers and and bad shots. (this seems to explain the comments made by Justin Smith's dad about people not being allowed to shoot). I think that has impacted confidence and also soured this particular team on playing together and for each other. (They may be able to recover that sense of energy and team with a good game or two)....But I think it has been mentality more than offensive concepts... This is Especially true if you take into account the number of wide open shooters missed by the drivers, which Miller has pointed out more than once now...If we made the extra pass more consistently I think that the concepts of the offense would be vindicated to a certain extent. As a former coach I pay a lot of attention to the number of open shots that the offense is producing. In the game yesterday they were getting open shots. and those are the types of shots that Fitzner has been missing...they have been open looks and he hasn't been hitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, mchenry34 said: I agree that the coaching staff must have tightened the reigns in December when trying to clamp down on turnovers and and bad shots. (this seems to explain the comments made by Justin Smith's dad about people not being allowed to shoot). I think that has impacted confidence and also soured this particular team on playing together and for each other. (They may be able to recover that sense of energy and team with a good game or two)....But I think it has been mentality more than offensive concepts... This is Especially true if you take into account the number of wide open shooters missed by the drivers, which Miller has pointed out more than once now...If we made the extra pass more consistently I think that the concepts of the offense would be vindicated to a certain extent. As a former coach I pay a lot of attention to the number of open shots that the offense is producing. In the game yesterday they were getting open shots. and those are the types of shots that Fitzner has been missing...they have been open looks and he hasn't been hitting. Are they open shot that the offense is generating or ate they open shot allowed by the defense sagging off to eliminate the drive because our players aren't good shooters or they know they aren't going to shoot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchenry34 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, Cutter said: Are they open shot that the offense is generating or ate they open shot allowed by the defense sagging off to eliminate the drive because our players aren't good shooters or they know they aren't going to shoot? For sure it is related...That is why one more really great shooter would make such a difference. Imagine the high pick and roll with a great shooter spotted up to Romeo's Right hand, or in the weak side corner so that the man can't help off from the corner shooter to take away the roll... I think if the personnel and mindset is right the offense that we see at IU under Archie can be as effective as any...neither the personnel nor the mindset is right these days...I think that the personnel part is out of Archie's hands in that Crean left them without shooters and injuries robbed them even further... I have thought that for the past two years Archie struggled to find the right button to push with these guys...He coached them hard to start last year and their confidence crumbled...He was more consistently positive with them this year and they didn't play as hard...so I think the mindset failure is on him I think that Archie will be able to find the right buttons to push as the program starts to look more and more like him, but right now there is a mixture of lack of confidence, lack of motor, and lack of skill that proved too much...There might be a few coaches who could have pulled it off with this crew in year two with all the injuries, but not that many, and maybe Archie will be in the next group of guys that can help a group like this recover despite these bumps in the road.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, mchenry34 said: For sure it is related...That is why one more really great shooter would make such a difference. Imagine the high pick and roll with a great shooter spotted up to Romeo's Right hand, or in the weak side corner so that the man can't help off from the corner shooter to take away the roll... I think if the personnel and mindset is right the offense that we see at IU under Archie can be as effective as any...neither the personnel nor the mindset is right these days...I think that the personnel part is out of Archie's hands in that Crean left them without shooters and injuries robbed them even further... I have thought that for the past two years Archie struggled to find the right button to push with these guys...He coached them hard to start last year and their confidence crumbled...He was more consistently positive with them this year and they didn't play as hard... I think that Archie will be able to find the right buttons to push as the program starts to look more and more like him, but right now there is a mixture of lack of confidence, lack of motor, and lack of skill that proved too much...There might be a few coaches who could have pulled it off with this crew in year two with all the injuries, but not that many, and maybe Archie will be in the next group of guys that can help a group like this recover despite these bumps in the road.... I agree to what you are saying but I think we need several really good shooters on the team and two good shooters on the floor at all times. Hopefully this can be addressed in recruiting and very soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Cutter said: I agree to what you are saying but I think we need several really good shooters on the team and two good shooters on the floor at all times. Hopefully this can be addressed in recruiting and very soon It's really difficult when your best and most confident 3-point shooter is also the best interior player (Juwan). This worked against Butler (LaVall Jordan said they had no answer), but is too much to ask against Big Ten size, especially when Juwan is asked to play out of position on defense. It's impossible to play inside-out by passing to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchenry34 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Cutter said: I agree to what you are saying but I think we need several really good shooters on the team and two good shooters on the floor at all times. Hopefully this can be addressed in recruiting and very soon Agreed...One thing that I would like to see the coaching staff try that can be accomplished with the personnel that we have is to switch the screener in the high pick and roll to Justin and have Juwan be a sprint replacement from the block to the top of the key...That would mean that if the roll is take away at least there would be a shooter available behind Romeo at the top of the key... Or, they could overload the right side, have Juwan pick and pop instead of of roll and then put Justin in the short corner for Romeo to lob to behind the help...I think that in each case it can be accomplished even with the lack of great shooters on the wing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Post Romeo up with juwan feeding him. Slash Smith opposite. Stick fitz or green opposite wing for a set 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threedom Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 19 minutes ago, mchenry34 said: Agreed...One thing that I would like to see the coaching staff try that can be accomplished with the personnel that we have is to switch the screener in the high pick and roll to Justin and have Juwan be a sprint replacement from the block to the top of the key...That would mean that if the roll is take away at least there would be a shooter available behind Romeo at the top of the key... Or, they could overload the right side, have Juwan pick and pop instead of of roll and then put Justin in the short corner for Romeo to lob to behind the help...I think that in each case it can be accomplished even with the lack of great shooters on the wing... Really like the last option you describe here....haven’t seen a lob to the one with the 48 in vertical in the half court yet. Seems like it shouldn’t be too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Good one hitter options, not an offense. Smith is not a seal and score person and does not finish well with contact. Part of the game plan is for Morgan to dominate the paint, draw attention with double teams and the biggest thing is to get fouled. We want to get the other bigs in foul trouble, especially being a "smaller" team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leathernecks Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 I'd like to see plays drawn up for individuals to give them some more confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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