BGleas Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, CTrojan88 said: I am not sure any of the incoming recruits would be considered great shooters. He needs to go out and get a guy who’s specialty is shooting at a high level. Not having one has ruined at least 3 seasons in recent memory, this one included It's ruined three of the last six seasons. But again, those were mostly all Crean players and Crean's failings. I'm worried about next season as well. But, I'm holding out hope that Phinisee has proven to be a reliable 3-pt shooter, Durham has improved tremendously from 3, I haven't seen him but everyone says that Hunter is a good 3pt shooter, and assuming IU lands him, Brooks seems a capable 3-pt shooter. I agree that a Zeisloft type shooter could do wonders and we don't currently have that guy, but Archie did attempt to address with Fitzner, so I'm assuming he'll attempt to address it again this offseason, hopefully more successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierJax Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said: There’s nothing that says next year will be better. In fact it says next year could be worse. Lose best post player, lose Romeo(not as big of a deal as I thought), And there aren’t any shooters coming in. Yes everyone has the chance to get better but we’ve seen how that goes. My expectations are at an all time low. What if Romeo doesn't go,4 pts against PU doesn't scream lottery to me...and it must not to you either...what about TJD..Brooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuthruandthru Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 59 minutes ago, IU Scott said: How do you know who IU did or did not look at when making the search for a coach. I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuthruandthru Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Here's the thing. Every IU fan had better hope Archie works out. It's been 25 years since we've been elite. If the job chews up and spits out another coach, then no one is going to want it. Sadly this is very true. IU needs Archie to succeed or things get really bad if that’s possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohete15 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Billingsley99 said: With all due respect it should not take a lot of fight to go into NW when you are Indiana and get a W. Top 2 players on the court play for us. Zero excuses IMO I agree with you. We should be winning that game. We should be, realistically, 2-3 during this last 5 game stretch. I'm as disappointed as many. I just don't think the team has given up. We had a different pace in the first 10 minutes. We had a fight in the last 10 minutes. We saw some emotion during that come back. The team needs A LOT better coaching on the offensive end. I don't want stagnation and poor offensive coaching to fall on the heads of the players not caring anymore. We've had this struggle of falling in to lulls on offense, despite having 2 of the top 10 players in the B1G...outside of inbounds plays, our staff has not designed anything with 1 of those 2 players to get us out of/prevent those lulls. Staff needs to be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 33 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said: Archie is in over his head I’m afraid. Sickening. Sickening is a harsh word whether someone believes he is in over his head or not. It's not like he's doing Pitino type crap. Disappointing would probably be a better choice of words. Personally, while I am disappointed, I think it is too early to attach that label to him. Where I do take exception with the ;it takes time' crowd is that it's wrong to expect faster results. So what if it took coaches A-E two to three years. That argument ignores coaches F-J who were able to implement the necessary culture change more quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 19 minutes ago, iuthruandthru said: Sadly this is very true. IU needs Archie to succeed or things get really bad if that’s possible. Things are already really bad. If Miller misses the tournament again this year, he will have used up all his goodwill in 2 years. When Crean got here he had most fans on board in year 1 and 2, he forever lost some fans with his third year though. You have to have success at an almost 4 to 1 rate against failures to make up for the failures. And if you look at the A.D. Facebook page when they post about games, the natives are really restless. If next year is another struggle, Miller may as well leave because he will have lost a significant enough portion of the fanbase where the only thing that will bring them back is a banner. In a young career, you don't want to be on the hot seat as often as Crean was around here. And much of that animosity against Crean started in year 3 and he lost about 40-50% of the fanbase in that loss to Syracuse for good 2 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, iuthruandthru said: My core point was IU and the university choose to take the path of another long rebuild. I don’t blame Archie or have issues with him. I hope he leads the team to the promised land. I just think it’s time we held the ones that have made these choices accountable for them. People need to realize the moment Archie was chosen the 5 year plan was the expectation. My kids know nothing but Mike Davis and beyond as the head coach at IU, so sad. 1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said: You are making the argument for us that we should not be complacent with the past 20 years. We want and expect more and we want to be at that top level. Once upon a time almost any coach would have jumped at the opportunity to be our coach. We have accepted middle of the pack and when we question it some fans say we are going after the coach. Just how, exactly do you two plan on holding people accountable? And, unless I am off base here, every fan base wants their teams to be a a top level. I think you guys are just frustrated that it is taking longer than expected for CAM to turn things around, and your constant bitching about it really isn't accomplishing anything. I agree with BGleas and have said so myself...it is going to take some time to reverse the results of Crean's last few years at IU. Wringing your hands and demanding for instant results is on you two. You, me, anyone on this board are merely individuals barking up a tree. We can complain all we want, or we can try to not bring the rest of the board down to where we are. As Rico said, each of us has a choice as to what we bring or don't bring here. If you feel that you need to hold someone accountable, or do something to show that you aren't going to accept where the program is right now.....then stop following the team. Don't post here. Don't spend one more dime on tickets, gear, or whatever. Take some constructive steps if you feel the need. I hope you both feel better for venting, but don't think anything you are complaining about will change one thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohete15 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, FW_Hoosier said: Clifton Moore gets in the game, grabs two boards and gets a block in 2 minutes... Immediately gets benched and doesn’t see the floor for the rest of the game. So sick of hearing this from Archie. I completely agree that Moore should get more PT. The problem is...he doesn't improve us where we are deficient. So, with as good as Cliff and Jake could be...I am not sure they help us win right now. We have no shortage of post game with Juwan. I would like to see Juwan get bumped to the 4 and start pulling the opponent's 4 outside, and let Juwan go to work on a smaller opponent...but then, we still don't have anyone to spread the floor. And that's the underlying problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUwins0708 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Sickening is a harsh word whether someone believes he is in over his head or not. It's not like he's doing Pitino type crap. Disappointing would probably be a better choice of words. Personally, while I am disappointed, I think it is too early to attach that label to him. Where I do take exception with the ;it takes time' crowd is that it's wrong to expect faster results. So what if it took coaches A-E two to three years. That argument ignores coaches F-J who were able to implement the necessary culture change more quickly. No it really is sickening, I threw up last night during the game. Probably from the stomach bug but I’m blaming IU basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, cohete15 said: I completely agree that Moore should get more PT. The problem is...he doesn't improve us where we are deficient. So, with as good as Cliff and Jake could be...I am not sure they help us win right now. We have no shortage of post game with Juwan. I would like to see Juwan get bumped to the 4 and start pulling the opponent's 4 outside, and let Juwan go to work on a smaller opponent...but then, we still don't have anyone to spread the floor. And that's the underlying problem. What Cliff can do is protect the rim and take some of the rebounding pressure off Morgan and Smith. I'm really curious as to what kind of offensive rebounder he could be given the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 36 minutes ago, BGleas said: Ah yes, the token 'in-game adjustments' anytime a team loses. I would guess a guy that speaks highly intelligently about the game, has grown up around the game, has played the game, has coached the game successfully, etc., etc. knows the X's and O's and how to make adjustments. IU has had several times where they came back from double-digit deficits to win games. IU has won several close games decided by 3 pts or less, and in those games scored on well-designed plays out of timeouts. All signs of a guy that can coach the game. IU ran several successful in-bounds plays for easy baskets last night when the offense was struggling. IU made defensive adjusts in terms of personnel (defensive assignments) that helped us get back in the game. This is about instilling a culture and a program and it takes time. This is about injuries significantly impacting a team. This is about a coach with 5 active players that he even remotely trusts. I'm not guaranteeing Archie turns into Tony Bennett or John Beilein, I'm saying those guys, and the others frequently mentioned all went through this same period as they attempted to instill a new culture and build a program. I guess then it's up to each of us to determine if we thing Archie can do it too. I think he can based on how he knows the game, speaks the game, his experience over time, and what he's done recruiting to this point. Fair enough. I guess by “in-game adjustments” I meant his willingness to adjust his rigid offensive scheme and defensive scheme that seems prone to getting lit up from three. Agreed that they ran some nice plays out of timeouts last night. Nothing we can do but wait and see if things improve from here, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: I know we looked at Pitino after Sampson was hired, And, we felt he was too pricey. He was elite. Oh, what could have been. At that time Pitino was wo I wanted to hire but looking back maybe it was a good thing we did not get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said: Had Knight to go to New Mexico Coach K would have been at Indiana. Even with all his success at Duke if Coack Knight had left at any time on his own terms Coach K would have been at IU I thought that as well because at the time Duke had just went to the final four for the first time under coach K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, IU Scott said: At that time Pitino was wo I wanted to hire but looking back maybe it was a good thing we did not get him. 'Maybe' it was a good thing? LOL. It's okay to say 'Thank God we avoided that nuclear meltdown'. And, yes, I had him high on the list as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Sickening is a harsh word whether someone believes he is in over his head or not. It's not like he's doing Pitino type crap. Disappointing would probably be a better choice of words. Personally, while I am disappointed, I think it is too early to attach that label to him. Where I do take exception with the ;it takes time' crowd is that it's wrong to expect faster results. So what if it took coaches A-E two to three years. That argument ignores coaches F-J who were able to implement the necessary culture change more quickly. There are a helluva lot of coaches that succeeded right off the bat....and did it with the former regime's players. I threw out some names earlier and have in the past. I am tired of hearing of "their Crean's recruits", tired of hearing "got to get his players", and tired of hearing "he needs time to get his system in place".....the list goes on. I want results. And I want them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohete15 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, 5fouls said: What Cliff can do is protect the rim and take some of the rebounding pressure off Morgan and Smith. I'm really curious as to what kind of offensive rebounder he could be given the opportunity. I agree, he can do that. But, we out-rebounded them by 15 last night. They scored 53 of their 73 points from the 3-point line and the free throw line. We turned it over 13 times to their 5. Again, I don't disagree we should be seeing more of Cliff, but what Cliff does, isn't what we were missing last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 48 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: That's why I wanted the safe hire...Gregg Marshall. I wanted Marshall as well but how would he have been a safe pick since he hasn't coached at this level either. The safe pick would have been Bennett who has been able to put UVA in a place to compete for the ACC title every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 32 minutes ago, iuthruandthru said: I know. How please let us know all of your inside info LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Shooting the ball when open and making 35% of threes is what this team needs. Guys are afraid to shoot right now, and as any shooter knows, shooting is what gets you out of that funk. I'm not saying Smith should be shooting threes, but when open players that can make them, need to take them. Anderson was open a couple of times when he was in the game. He needs to shoot. Morgan needs to look for the three more too. Right now every team is just jamming up the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 23 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said: Just how, exactly do you two plan on holding people accountable? And, unless I am off base here, every fan base wants their teams to be a a top level. I think you guys are just frustrated that it is taking longer than expected for CAM to turn things around, and your constant bitching about it really isn't accomplishing anything. I agree with BGleas and have said so myself...it is going to take some time to reverse the results of Crean's last few years at IU. Wringing your hands and demanding for instant results is on you two. You, me, anyone on this board are merely individuals barking up a tree. We can complain all we want, or we can try to not bring the rest of the board down to where we are. As Rico said, each of us has a choice as to what we bring or don't bring here. If you feel that you need to hold someone accountable, or do something to show that you aren't going to accept where the program is right now.....then stop following the team. Don't post here. Don't spend one more dime on tickets, gear, or whatever. Take some constructive steps if you feel the need. I hope you both feel better for venting, but don't think anything you are complaining about will change one thing. Amen to that brother, preach on. I ever understood when fans say we should hold people accountable because the last time I checked fans don't really have an influence on what goes on in the AD's office. Like you said the only things fans can do is stop going to games or buying merchandise or supporting the program in anyway. do what I did at the end of Crean's last year and e-mail the AD and voice your displeasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I wanted Marshall as well but how would he have been a safe pick since he hasn't coached at this level either. The safe pick would have been Bennett who has been able to put UVA in a place to compete for the ACC title every year. Can you imagine Bennett's first conversation with the Crean holdovers about offensive philosophy? I can see something like this: "Devonte, we're not going to do that helter-skelter crap here any longer. Slow down. Make the extra pass. No bad shots. You need to find a way to mellow out." Okay, maybe that last sentence wouldn't have been necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Fair enough. I guess by “in-game adjustments” I meant his willingness to adjust his rigid offensive scheme and defensive scheme that seems prone to getting lit up from three. Agreed that they ran some nice plays out of timeouts last night. Nothing we can do but wait and see if things improve from here, I guess. It seemed to me the last 12 minutes or so he changed the offense and use more of the flex offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 59 minutes ago, HoosierJax said: You really think that,man i dont know...when all that was going on there was some fuss about his comments that lead to that and i dont think Knight would have wanted a former player/assistant coming in behind him. If on his own terms leaving I guarantee it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 29 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I thought that as well because at the time Duke had just went to the final four for the first time under coach K There was a guy sitting on the bench with Coach k for 10 years that told me if he had Knights blessing it would be the only job he would leave Duke for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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