Iowa Postgame Thread

[Billingsley99]

11 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

It says they're freshmen. And two of them have been hurt all year. So, his 5th and 6th best recruits of his first recruiting class are not able to contribute much as freshmen. Throw the bum out!

I.am firmly in the CAM corner but no one is above criticism.  You can be here for 1 year or 30 and there will always be excuses that part of the fan base accept and part will not. We make excuses not his guys. We say CTC left us nothing. We play the injury excuse etc....all are reasonable but at the end of the day we will not make the tournament and it is the responsibility of the man in charge. Nature of the beast I for 1 am sick and tired of losing and being in the same breath as the Northwestern Rutgers Penn States of this conference.  I hope and pray he gets us there.  I was so excited about this hire I support him and our team 100 percent but I call it how I see it.

[Maedhros]

17 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

Right now we are playing 2 guys that Archie actually recruited. 

And only one of those two contributed last Saturday, yet we were still able to beat Michigan State on the road. The cupboard wasn't left as bare as Goodman and Rabjohns et al want you to believe.

[Bowhunter]

Smith kills us in defense. He gets praised for that side of the court, but most of his good defensive play comes from blocking someone after a blow by.

I liked how he started going up with two hands and dunking the ball. He looked better with that. 

Overall we just look like we go through the motions. I see no sense of urgency. That was a must win game for the post season.

[IUskim]

12 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

And what standard in year 4?  Merely a tournament appearance or does he have to actually do something in the tournament?  Top 3 or 4 finish in Big Ten?  Win 22+ games?

FWIW, I hope he figures stuff out and we take off next year.  He does this again and it will be ugly around here.  The worm is already turning as is.

So are you saying get rid of him after next year if we don’t make the tournament so we can go through another culture change and be right back where we started when he got here?

[cybergates]

10 hours ago, BGleas said:

Iowa’s 3pt shooting had nothing to do with the pack line defense. It’s not like the game plan was to let Bohannon shoot. The dude was hitting 3pt shots at the shot-clock buzzer 5 steps behind the line with a hand in his face. Justin Smith had three 3’s hit in his face because he had his hands down at his side and not in the shooters face. 

Other thoughts...

- Green was awful offensively tonight. Lazy passes, terrible shots, etc.

- Morgan is a senior, he needs to be better with the fouls. He’s letting his team down. Cook is out there playing just as hard physical, but so much smarter. Don’t get me wrong, I love Morgan, but some of the foul trouble shouldn’t be happening. 

- Bohannon was the best player on the court tonight, Cook second. 

- Phinisee was really good. He had some freshmen mistakes, but he was solid. 

- I love Langford, I really do, he played great D in the second half, but there’s just something about him that’s missing for me. Maybe it’s the 3pt shooting? I don’t know, but I’ve said this before but he reminds of a high volume scoring guard in the NBA that puts up points but doesn’t really impact the game. I never enter a game thinking ‘we’ve got Langford, we got this game”.

Rudy Gay? I know he's not a guard but Romeo is starting to remind me of him for some reason(s).

[IU Scott]

17 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

And what standard in year 4?  Merely a tournament appearance or does he have to actually do something in the tournament?  Top 3 or 4 finish in Big Ten?  Win 22+ games?

FWIW, I hope he figures stuff out and we take off next year.  He does this again and it will be ugly around here.  The worm is already turning as is.

Another thing to me is if you actually fire a coach after a couple of years you will limit your talent pool you will be looking at.  I totally think that if you fire a coach after 2 or 3 years your candidate poo; will not look very good and will have to bring in another guy that will have to prove himself.  No really good coach will elave their current stable job to go to a place that will fire you if you don't turn it around in a couple of years.. Some don't like to hear it but look at some places that showed patience and how it paid off(UM, Villanova, UVA and Duke) all of their coaches started off slowly but turned it around by year 4.

[BADGERVOL]

Maybe this is the best place to put this or maybe not idk...

some fans are trying to draw comparisons between Crean and Archie and I don’t think they’re even close.

when we hired Crean I was NOT excited because being from Wisconsin I knew what we were getting. A guy who would run a helterskeltor offense and would ultimate build a program that was average to below average most years and then have a shot at being good every now and then. That was his ceiling and we already knew it based on his previous results.

with Archie, when you look at the body of work it is FAR MORE REASONABLE to believe that what we are seeing is not what will become typical. At his previous stop he was much more consistently good than Crean was.

I’m willing to admit it’s possible he flops at IU but I still believe he’d go somewhere else and return to where he was before. The guy just comes off as having a much better IQ than Crean. The people excited for Crean were excited based on the initial flash of his slick salesman side. Archie isn’t that...he comes off as much more substance than style.

i believe if we are patient we’ll get there. I’m fully willing to give him the complete 4 year cycle before reasonably listening to him needing to be replaced. As one poster stated, by then we’ll be able to see the trends, good or bad, we need to see to make a wise assessment.

[IUCrazy2]

15 minutes ago, IUskim said:

So are you saying get rid of him after next year if we don’t make the tournament so we can go through another culture change and be right back where we started when he got here?

If the play remains the same, yeah, I am leaning that way.

[Billingsley99]

12 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Maybe this is the best place to put this or maybe not idk...

some fans are trying to draw comparisons between Crean and Archie and I don’t think they’re even close.

when we hired Crean I was NOT excited because being from Wisconsin I knew what we were getting. A guy who would run a helterskeltor offense and would ultimate build a program that was average to below average most years and then have a shot at being good every now and then. That was his ceiling and we already knew it based on his previous results.

with Archie, when you look at the body of work it is FAR MORE REASONABLE to believe that what we are seeing is not what will become typical. At his previous stop he was much more consistently good than Crean was.

I’m willing to admit it’s possible he flops at IU but I still believe he’d go somewhere else and return to where he was before. The guy just comes off as having a much better IQ than Crean. The people excited for Crean were excited based on the initial flash of his slick salesman side. Archie isn’t that...he comes off as much more substance than style.

i believe if we are patient we’ll get there. I’m fully willing to give him the complete 4 year cycle before reasonably listening to him needing to be replaced. As one poster stated, by then we’ll be able to see the trends, good or bad, we need to see to make a wise assessment.

I agree wholeheartedly but truly do not feel that not making the tournament 3 years in a row is acceptable.  67 other programs figure it out I can guarantee many with less talent less coaching ability and far inferior facilities.  I used to have realistic hopes of winning titles now I pray just to get in. That might be ok many other places but not here. CAM is in the crosshairs due to 20 years of inept decision making. 

With whom much is given much is required and expected.

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

41 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Definitely agree that our inability to make shots has been one of the primary issues over this losing streak, but I don’t think it was the main reason we lost last night... I’d say that turnovers and defensive lapses were what did us in.  

I’d like for us to be a better three point shooting team, but 7/21 is probably about what we can expect on an average night going forward with Archie.  We’re never going to be a team that averages 40%+ from three on a consistent basis.

Here's the comprehensive list of teams that are shooting over 40% from 3 this year:

[hoosiertildeath]

Why do some  Indiana fans ( ? ) think they and only they can predict Indiana's  basketball future ?  Anyone who has followed College Hoops for a Long time knows that a new coach ( usually ) does Better in his fourth season ! See my post above about instant gratification !

[IUCrazy2]

10 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Another thing to me is if you actually fire a coach after a couple of years you will limit your talent pool you will be looking at.  I totally think that if you fire a coach after 2 or 3 years your candidate poo; will not look very good and will have to bring in another guy that will have to prove himself.  No really good coach will elave their current stable job to go to a place that will fire you if you don't turn it around in a couple of years.. Some don't like to hear it but look at some places that showed patience and how it paid off(UM, Villanova, UVA and Duke) all of their coaches started off slowly but turned it around by year 4.

How many of them had a Top 10 paid coach when they made that initial hire?  To me, you do not pay a Top 10 salary for an expected long term rebuild.

 

Crean turned it around in year 4 too...until he didn't.  For each of these guys that you can post where patience worked, there are dozens where it did not.  The last guy to be an occupant of the job being one of them.

And it is not just the losing Scott, that really stinks but what really sticks in my craw is that there is zero growth occurring right now and zero accountability for Archie's chosen ones.  Justin Smith could take a nap at center court and still get more playing time than other guys.  Yeah, we are building a culture all right but from all appearances it is exactly the wrong type of culture to have in a winning program.  That is why I am irritated beyond just wins and losses.  It was the same crap with Crean teams and turnovers "It will get better once we get good ball players in here...."  No, it never did because it was not an emphasis of his.  There are concerning patterns that you can see during the rebuild that are a cause for concern going forward.  

[cohete15]

So much overreaction in here. 

Iowa just finished piss pounding Michigan, and people in here are appauled that we lost to them...by 5...with Juwan missing a lot of minutes. 

This team is no where close to the 7-game losing streak team. Bohannon was hitting Steph Curry threes, and for whatever reason, Justin thought he would play hands down defense against a shooter with the ball in his hands. That's the difference in the game. 

[HoosierDom]

2 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

So much overreaction in here. 

Iowa just finished piss pounding Michigan, and people in here are appauled that we lost to them...by 5...with Juwan missing a lot of minutes. 

This team is no where close to the 7-game losing streak team. Bohannon was hitting Steph Curry threes, and for whatever reason, Justin thought he would play hands down defense against a shooter with the ball in his hands. That's the difference in the game. 

Exactly right. We played a good team, and but for a couple of huge, well guarded shots, we would have won. We played like a tournament team. We have the resume of a tournament team. If we finish the season like we played last night we will make the tournament. Next year we should have a more balanced roster.

[Billingsley99]

16 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

So much overreaction in here. 

Iowa just finished piss pounding Michigan, and people in here are appauled that we lost to them...by 5...with Juwan missing a lot of minutes. 

This team is no where close to the 7-game losing streak team. Bohannon was hitting Steph Curry threes, and for whatever reason, Justin thought he would play hands down defense against a shooter with the ball in his hands. That's the difference in the game. 

Always going to be overreaction, this is probably not nearly an issue had we not gotten killed by Nebraska lose at Rutgers etc... then go into MSU and win. 

[FW_Hoosier]

3 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Here's the comprehensive list of teams that are shooting over 40% from 3 this year:

Yep, very difficult to average 40% from three on the season.  I used that number because we did that four times in Crean’s last six seasons... Can’t expect that to happen going forward.  Like I said, 7/21 is a decent shooting night in Archie’s offense.  Have to play better defense and take better care of the ball to win.

[BADGERVOL]

13 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I agree wholeheartedly but truly do not feel that not making the tournament 3 years in a row is acceptable.  67 other programs figure it out I can guarantee many with less talent less coaching ability and far inferior facilities.  I used to have realistic hopes of winning titles now I pray just to get in. That might be ok many other places but not here. CAM is in the crosshairs due to 20 years of inept decision making. 

With whom much is given much is required and expected.

I would agree that we should make the tourney next year and if we don’t then Archie should go into year four with a VERY hot seat.

[rico]

9 minutes ago, hoosiertildeath said:

Why do some  Indiana fans ( ? ) think they and only they can predict Indiana's  basketball future ?  Anyone who has followed College Hoops for a Long time knows that a new coach ( usually ) does Better in his fourth season ! See my post above about instant gratification !

Knight went to the FF in year 2, Mike Davis went the NC in year two,  Sampson was successful in year 2.  And just for you HTD, Lee Rose won a Big 10 regular season title in year 1 at Purdue, then followed it up with a FF in year 2.

[BADGERVOL]

I still think there must be something wrong internally with this team. Too hard to explain everything any other way. Wish those who have connections to insiders could find out for sure even if it was simply stated by people with connections that “yes” we do have internal strife, then it would be a lot easier to swallow the season we are having.

[cohete15]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Always going to be overreaction, this is probably not nearly an issue had we not gotten killed by Nebraska lose at Rutgers etc... then go into MSU and win. 

That's fair, but still massive overreaction. 

[IU Scott]

11 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

How many of them had a Top 10 paid coach when they made that initial hire?  To me, you do not pay a Top 10 salary for an expected long term rebuild.

 

Crean turned it around in year 4 too...until he didn't.  For each of these guys that you can post where patience worked, there are dozens where it did not.  The last guy to be an occupant of the job being one of them.

And it is not just the losing Scott, that really stinks but what really sticks in my craw is that there is zero growth occurring right now and zero accountability for Archie's chosen ones.  Justin Smith could take a nap at center court and still get more playing time than other guys.  Yeah, we are building a culture all right but from all appearances it is exactly the wrong type of culture to have in a winning program.  That is why I am irritated beyond just wins and losses.  It was the same crap with Crean teams and turnovers "It will get better once we get good ball players in here...."  No, it never did because it was not an emphasis of his.  There are concerning patterns that you can see during the rebuild that are a cause for concern going forward.  

That is not true at all because he benched Smith after he laid on the floor and did not get backed defensively.  He also benched Romeo and Green after lazy passes.  Also I couldn't care less what any coach is paid and it has nothing to do with how long a rebuild should be.

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

1 minute ago, rico said:

Knight went to the FF in year 2, Mike Davis went the NC in year two,  Sampson was successful in year 2.  And just for you HTD, Lee Rose won a Big 10 regular season title in year 1 at Purdue, then followed it up with a FF in year 2.

So you'd prefer Archie's tenure mirrors Davis?

[Billingsley99]

11 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

That's fair, but still massive overreaction. 

Of course it is. We are fans short for fanatics. We are never as good as we think we are nor as terrible. We are a passionate fan base that still cares.

[mchenry34]

This year reminds me of Coach Crean's Third year at IU. When Hulls and Watford and Elston were sophomores and Oladipo and Sheehey were Freshmen and Verdell and Pritchard and Matt Roth were Juniors. We even had a senior transfer in Jeremiah Rivers. Going into that year it seemed like it would be the year that things would turn around. They had more talent and experience than the recent past. But, Maurice Creek had his time derailed with injury a couple of other things went wrong and they had a terrible year.

This team is better than that team, and I think that we will likely win 8 games in the league and end up just outside the Bubble, where as Crean's third year was a disaster. But, that team added basically one piece the next year, Zeller, and really took off.

I fully believe that while we are likely to lose our best two offensive players, we will be much better next year. We will have an influx of talent, more experience, and better depth in the post.

I think that the of this year is about maintaining some growth trajectory for Archie Miller's tenure, and if that is accomplished we will really break through.

Edit: I also believe that Archie will then be able to sustain success in a way that Crean could not...there won't be as many years that were complete head scratchers like the 2013 team that was so horrible. I think that the personality of the team will grow in a direction that is more dependable and tough.

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, rico said:

Knight went to the FF in year 2, Mike Davis went the NC in year two,  Sampson was successful in year 2.  And just for you HTD, Lee Rose won a Big 10 regular season title in year 1 at Purdue, then followed it up with a FF in year 2.

Well I can go how long did it take Coach K, Belein, Bennett and Wright take to turn their programs around