NBA Thread

[FW_Hoosier]

16 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

You could say that I guess, though I don’t think he really is - but then i’d say if the P’s want to really contend they need another high level starting guard. Collison is not at that level, he’ll he was formerly a Pacers backup and was traded, he’s an interim guy in my book. These replies strike me as some kind of loyalty thing. If we were talking about a team other than the P’s, but with the same players, I doubt people would be so reactionary to the idea that Collison is not the long term starting guard if the team wants to get to the next level 

Yeah, it’s an interesting issue, as Vic admittedly isn’t a PG in the traditional sense.  You don’t really want a traditional 2 guard playing alongside him, and at the same time, you also don’t want a traditional PG that needs the ball to be effective.  

But you’re definitely right that the Pacers aren’t likely to make the Finals with Collison as the other starting guard.  Ideally, they find a PG that can play off the ball some, play defense, and hit the open three.  Hypothetically, who do you think would be the perfect fit alongside Oladipo?  Doesn’t have to be someone who’s available.

[rico]

2 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Yeah, it’s an interesting issue, as Vic admittedly isn’t a PG in the traditional sense.  You don’t really want a traditional 2 guard playing alongside him, and at the same time, you also don’t want a traditional PG that needs the ball to be effective.  

But you’re definitely right that the Pacers aren’t likely to make the Finals with Collison as the other starting guard.  Ideally, they find a PG that can play off the ball some, play defense, and hit the open three.  Hypothetically, who do you think would be the perfect fit alongside Oladipo?  Doesn’t have to be someone who’s available.

John Paxson?  LOL

[hoosiertildeath]

Making more money available for a free agency acquisition ! Hope they land a star quality player !

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, hoosiertildeath said:

Making more money available for a free agency acquisition ! Hope they land a star quality player !

This has been discussed in the Hoosier in the NBA thread

Edited June 26, 2018 by IU Scott

[hoosiertildeath]

Oops !

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Right, but Fouls will still mock PG's PER! Hey let's spend another month going down the mock PG path. 

In other news, both are great players.

Combined PER for Oladipo and Sabonis last season - 40.6

Combined PER for Paul George and...... - 18.7

[KoB2011]

11 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't think Collison is bad, but he is a second string pg, he's not a quality starting point. He was a fill in for the Pacers. If the P's want to get to the "next level" they need a top flight pg. Naming better point guards than Collison? That's a long list. 

Disagree with this hugely. You can't have an All-Star at every position, but Collison, at least for now, is a quality NBA starter. Collison lis a very good shooter, doesn't make mistakes and is still above average on defense. 

The Pacers need a better wing and need Turner, Sabonis and Vic to continue developing. Given how much Vic plays with the ball in his hands, they really need a PG that is more complimentary than an All-Star. 

[KoB2011]

7 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Yeah, it’s an interesting issue, as Vic admittedly isn’t a PG in the traditional sense.  You don’t really want a traditional 2 guard playing alongside him, and at the same time, you also don’t want a traditional PG that needs the ball to be effective.  

But you’re definitely right that the Pacers aren’t likely to make the Finals with Collison as the other starting guard.  Ideally, they find a PG that can play off the ball some, play defense, and hit the open three.  Hypothetically, who do you think would be the perfect fit alongside Oladipo?  Doesn’t have to be someone who’s available.

I was going to say Kyle Lowry, but then I looked at the stats and couldn't figure out why he is better than Collison. 

I mean, I do think Lowry is better but not by much. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

11 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Disagree with this hugely. You can't have an All-Star at every position, but Collison, at least for now, is a quality NBA starter. Collison lis a very good shooter, doesn't make mistakes and is still above average on defense. 

The Pacers need a better wing and need Turner, Sabonis and Vic to continue developing. Given how much Vic plays with the ball in his hands, they really need a PG that is more complimentary than an All-Star. 

Perfectly fair KoB. We disagree, as I think the Pacers are close (and much closer than I thought they would be) but they're not getting back to competing for the EC championship and on to the Finals with the current group, they are missing a couple of pieces, and imo that includes a better backcourt player than Collison to start with Vic. You like to get me to name players I think are in the top 10, or better or worse than a player. You know that we could name multiple starting points better than Collison. He's a good player, he's not good enough for the P's to truly be top team again, if starting.

[KoB2011]

Just now, Hoosierhoopster said:

Perfectly fair KoB. We disagree, as I think the Pacers are close (and much closer than I thought they would be) but they're not getting back to competing for the EC championship and on to the Finals with the current group, they are missing a couple of pieces, and imo that includes a better backcourt player than Collison to start with Vic. You like to get me to name players I think are in the top 10, or better or worse than a player. You know that we could name multiple starting points better than Collison. He's a good player, he's not good enough for the P's to truly be top team again, if starting.

I completely agree he isn't a top 10 starting PG, but I do think he is/can be one of the better starting PGs in the East. And if you look at the other top teams in the East, they have starters that are no better than Collison, just not necessarily at PG. 

If Turner and/or Sabonis continue to develop into All-Star level players and Vic takes another step (best SG in the league maybe?) I think we are a 3 and D wing away from being in the conversation as the best team in the East (depending on LBJ). 

[Hoosierhoopster]

18 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I completely agree he isn't a top 10 starting PG, but I do think he is/can be one of the better starting PGs in the East. And if you look at the other top teams in the East, they have starters that are no better than Collison, just not necessarily at PG. 

If Turner and/or Sabonis continue to develop into All-Star level players and Vic takes another step (best SG in the league maybe?) I think we are a 3 and D wing away from being in the conversation as the best team in the East (depending on LBJ). 

That is one possible track, I can see it, but think improving the back court is the better path. If you look at the teams that are competing at the top, they generally have really strong back courts. LeBron skews everything, of course, he's like the Energizer Bunny, he just keeps going and it almost doesn't matter who is around him, but to beat teams like Gleas's Celtics (just think how good they will be next season), Philly, possibly Cleveland depending on a bunch of things, and maybe Toronto and/or the Bucks, improving the back court with another elite player would go a long way. That said, I don't know who at this point. Smart would be an interesting option to consider, so would Rozier. One of those two will probably be available. The other thing here is building for the future, Collison is not getting any younger.

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

That is one possible track, I can see it, but think improving the back court is the better path. If you look at the teams that are competing at the top, they generally have really strong back courts. LeBron skews everything, of course, he's like the Energizer Bunny, he just keeps going and it almost doesn't matter who is around him, but to beat teams like Gleas's Celtics (just think how good they will be next season), Philly, possibly Cleveland depending on a bunch of things, and maybe Toronto and/or the Bucks, improving the back court with another elite player would go a long way. That said, I don't know who at this point. Smart would be an interesting option to consider, so would Rozier. One of those two will probably be available. The other thing here is building for the future, Collison is not getting any younger.

I would take the Pacers backcourt last year over every other East playoff team, sans Toronto and Washington. I understand Boston was missing Kyrie though.

I don't think it is a stretch to think that Vic can be the best guard in the East for a few years going forward. I think Collison is a very solid player now and Holiday projects to be the same or slightly better. Our backcourt is set.

That does not mean that it couldn't be better, but that's true for almost every team in the league. It just doesn't seem that is our best path towards improvement when you look at what moves we can reasonably make. The low hanging fruit for the Pacers at this point is getting a wing. All the PG talk prior to the draft was about long-term options, which we seem to have filled by getting a steal in the draft. 

If improving the backcourt is the better path as you say, how do you go about doing that? Bogey is more likely to get you beat than Collison IMO and there are a lot more wings out there we can get than there are PGs. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by KoB2011

[Hoosierhoopster]

5 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I would take the Pacers backcourt last year over every other East playoff team, sans Toronto and Washington. I understand Boston was missing Kyrie though.

I don't think it is a stretch to think that Vic can be the best guard in the East for a few years going forward. I think Collison is a very solid player now and Holiday projects to be the same or slightly better. Our backcourt is set.

That does not mean that it couldn't be better, but that's true for almost every team in the league. It just doesn't seem that is our best path towards improvement when you look at what moves we can reasonably make. The low hanging fruit for the Pacers at this point is getting a wing. All the PG talk prior to the draft was about long-term options, which we seem to have filled by getting a steal in the draft. 

If improving the backcourt is the better path as you say, how do you go about doing that? Bogey is more likely to get you beat than Collison IMO and there are a lot more wings out there we can get than there are PGs. 

Like I said I'm not sure who, but I mentioned Rozier or Smart.

Here's another take, also saying P's need better back court depth:

PACERS

Needs: Secondary scorer, backcourt depth Players who fit: Marcus Smart, Will Barton, Tyreke Evans The Pacers surprised a lot of people last season by not only making the playoffs, but nearly eliminating LeBron James and the Cavs in the first round. But as that series showed, they often relied too much on Victor Oladipo. To solve that problem they could look to find a secondary scorer in free agency to help carry that load. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-free-agency-2018-offseason-needs-and-potential-fits-for-every-team/

[FW_Hoosier]

12 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I would take the Pacers backcourt last year over every other East playoff team, sans Toronto and Washington. I understand Boston was missing Kyrie though.

I don't think it is a stretch to think that Vic can be the best guard in the East for a few years going forward. I think Collison is a very solid player now and Holiday projects to be the same or slightly better. Our backcourt is set.

That does not mean that it couldn't be better, but that's true for almost every team in the league. It just doesn't seem that is our best path towards improvement when you look at what moves we can reasonably make. The low hanging fruit for the Pacers at this point is getting a wing. All the PG talk prior to the draft was about long-term options, which we seem to have filled by getting a steal in the draft. 

If improving the backcourt is the better path as you say, how do you go about doing that? Bogey is more likely to get you beat than Collison IMO and there are a lot more wings out there we can get than there are PGs. 

Speaking of the Celtics... Scary Terry would be a great fit for the Pacers.

[KoB2011]

8 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Speaking of the Celtics... Scary Terry would be a great fit for the Pacers.

I agree, but I'm thinking with Holiday we are going to give him a shot to be the long-term option. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

LeBron supposedly texted KD to join him with the Lakers. Lol

[rico]

33 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

LeBron supposedly texted KD to join him with the Lakers. Lol

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lebron-james-free-agency-2018-anonymous-gm-says-lebrons-already-calling-potential-future-teammates/

[FW_Hoosier]

Good call by whoever said the Pacers should go after Gordon.

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

LeBron supposedly texted KD to join him with the Lakers. Lol

That move would destroy whatever image KD has left.

[Hoosierhoopster]

3 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Good call by whoever said the Pacers should go after Gordon.

Doesn't seem likely 

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2018-nba-free-agency-aaron-gordon-wants-to-stay-with-magic-but-ultimately-seeks-a-max-contract/

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

Definitely not happening now with Thad opting in. 

[FKIM01]

Surprise, surprise...Paul George not opting in with OKC.

[NotIThatLives]

Well, a 20 million a year offer to Gordon is not high enough to make Orlando let him walk and thad's opting in just made the money a little tighter going forward.  Have a feeling Pacers wind up with Wayne Ellington.  

Surely they don't let bogdanovic go with a team option of 10 mil.  

[Hoosierhoopster]

12 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Surprise, surprise...Paul George not opting in with OKC.

You realize that that was an absolute no brainer, right, and that it does not signal, one way or the other, that he is leaving or staying? It's a contract move for more money, like every other NBA player who can make any money. All reports are that he is seriously considering staying in OKC. I tend to think he will do a one-and-one for one more year in OKC to wait and see how everything shakes out, but what happens with LeBron, Kawhi, Cousins, etc. will likely play a role.

Btw, Dan Gilbert was interviewed at length on NBA radio yesterday, he went on and on about how PG is one of the best players in the League, compared him to Durant, stated that trying to stop him from scoring is next to impossible and that when he faced Cleveland they did everything they could to stop him, but highlighted that it is all about fit, and that he hopes PG does not stay in OKC because he is not being correctly utilized with Westbrook (you know, how Vic wasn't correctly utilized with Westbrook and averaged about 16 ppg while with Wesbrook). In a moment of comedy, Gilbert called a potential LeBron/PG team "basketball porn," because they're a perfect fit to compliment each other. 

 

 

[T-Free20]

Has there been any discussion about Yogi possibly coming to the Pacers? We will be in need of a point guard next year considering all of the expiring contracts. Not saying he would start, but could be serviceable with the second unit IMO. Thoughts? Sorry if this has already been discussed and I missed it.