Fred Glass

[Brass Cannon]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I don't think that is true because those players have confidence that they could be the one to turn IU around and would be more willing to come than if we fired him next year.  They would think by adding them to the other players we already have they would think they would turn it around.  Losing seasons did not stop Cody and Yogi  coming to IU did it.

So elite recruits will have faith in them selves in one year but coaches won’t have faith they can turn the program around in three years doesn’t seem to really make sense besides regardless of what you think we see every year lame duck coaches fail to recruit. 

[RJPaisley]

It's all a moot point. We are going to have a great season this year.

[IU Scott]

11 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

So elite recruits will have faith in them selves in one year but coaches won’t have faith they can turn the program around in three years doesn’t seem to really make sense besides regardless of what you think we see every year lame duck coaches fail to recruit. 

So why did Cody and Yogi come because CTC had 3 straight losing seasons to begin his career at IU

[Billingsley99]

36 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I’ve had this exact same thought about Donovan being available in 2020 more times than I’d like to admit... Lol.  I do wonder if OKC entering rebuild mode reduces their urgency to get rid of him though.

it might from the aspect of feeling heat but his competitiveness I would think would push him into a situation to win. I have had that same thought as well.  All of this is a mute point if we had just taken care of a couple games that we should have injuries or not. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

46 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

So elite recruits will have faith in them selves in one year but coaches won’t have faith they can turn the program around in three years doesn’t seem to really make sense besides regardless of what you think we see every year lame duck coaches fail to recruit. 

CAM is not now, at all, a "lame duck" coach. 

Nor is this year going to be the end all in determining what players commit. 

[BGleas]

25 minutes ago, RJPaisley said:

It's all a moot point. We are going to have a great season this year.

This!

[Hoosierhoopster]

44 minutes ago, RJPaisley said:

It's all a moot point. We are going to have a great season this year.

Hunter is key, imo. 

Do think the team is fully capable of beating the relatively low expectations set by the prognosticators regardless.

[Brass Cannon]

34 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

CAM is not now, at all, a "lame duck" coach. 

Nor is this year going to be the end all in determining what players commit. 

Whatever you want to call it if we miss the tourney yet again under Miller not only is his seat going to be warm but opposing coaches won’t even have to remind kids that they probably should go elsewhere if they want to make the tourney. 

[rico]

So some of you are "the Glass is half empty" type guys...some of you are "the Glass is half full" type guys.

Me, I am a "we got twice as much Glass as what we really need" type guy.

Carry on.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Whatever you want to call it if we miss the tourney yet again under Miller not only is his seat going to be warm but opposing coaches won’t even have to remind kids that they probably should go elsewhere if they want to make the tourney. 

Your opinion, but no, it's not and wouldn't be 'warm.'

Opposing coaches always seek to make use of missing the tourney, among other things. Of course it's easier if you're a repeat tourney team, to recruit well. But negative recruiting goes only so far.

Recruits are looking for a number of things generally player-specific and including playing time / role / depth at their anticipated position, type of offense/scheme, e.g., up and down or half-court system, development for the NBA (say what you will about Lanford, he went to Boston in the lottery), how the players like the coaching staff and returning players, what players are returning, the city/state/area, the academics/programs, etc.

[Brass Cannon]

24 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Your opinion, but no, it's not and wouldn't be 'warm.'

Opposing coaches always seek to make use of missing the tourney, among other things. Of course it's easier if you're a repeat tourney team, to recruit well. But negative recruiting goes only so far.

Recruits are looking for a number of things generally player-specific and including playing time / role / depth at their anticipated position, type of offense/scheme, e.g., up and down or half-court system, development for the NBA (say what you will about Lanford, he went to Boston in the lottery), how the players like the coaching staff and returning players, what players are returning, the city/state/area, the academics/programs, etc.

Recruits want stability. 

If Archie can miss the tourney 4 years in a row and not get fired what’s even the point of pretending we want to have a legit basketball program. 

Other than Lander while stacked with talent not a lot of 1 and done talent in 2021. So all those other kids aren’t going to come here if they have a new coach in a season. 

[Seeking6]

4 hours ago, IU Scott said:

To me if we let Archie go after 3 years it would do way more harm than good if you ask me.  It is not like we have been having big time coaches knocking down our door the last few times we had an opening.  If we let him go after 3 years are pool of candidates would be even less since it would appear we are very inpatient with coaches.  Another thing is that he has made some good end roads with the Indiana coaches and with the 2021 class being so good it would hurt our chances with all of those players in that class.

Just so people understand. If we miss the tourney 3 years in a row I'm not saying firing Archie is the answer. What I'm saying is that Archie will have found himself in quicksand because none of the high level recruits in 2021 or 2022 would buy his hype. Opposing coaches would have 3 years of not making a tourney to use against Archie and IU. So I'm not advocating firing him but recruiting will take a hit and once that happens....he would be in trouble team wise in year 5 so some AD's take the approach of heading this off before we waste more time. Look what UK did with BG is a very good example. If this scenario plays out though....I don't want Fred making the call. 

[rico]

42 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Recruits want stability. 

If Archie can miss the tourney 4 years in a row and not get fired what’s even the point of pretending we want to have a legit basketball program. 

Other than Lander while stacked with talent not a lot of 1 and done talent in 2021. So all those other kids aren’t going to come here if they have a new coach in a season. 

A lot of speculation and fortune telling there.  The "what if" argument is moot.

[Seeking6]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Your opinion, but no, it's not and wouldn't be 'warm.'

Opposing coaches always seek to make use of missing the tourney, among other things. Of course it's easier if you're a repeat tourney team, to recruit well. But negative recruiting goes only so far.

Recruits are looking for a number of things generally player-specific and including playing time / role / depth at their anticipated position, type of offense/scheme, e.g., up and down or half-court system, development for the NBA (say what you will about Lanford, he went to Boston in the lottery), how the players like the coaching staff and returning players, what players are returning, the city/state/area, the academics/programs, etc.

Respect you as a poster and I'm not saying this to be whatever....but completely disagree. If Archie misses the first 3 years there's no question his seat would be warm (it's IU). We experienced the same with Crean with obviously much more difficult situation.

All the things you list as a reason why a player chooses a place would be the exact reason why they would choose another school. 

[FW_Hoosier]

2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Respect you as a poster and I'm not saying this to be whatever....but completely disagree. If Archie misses the first 3 years there's no question his seat would be warm (it's IU). All the things you list as a reason why a player chooses a place would be the exact reason why they would choose another school. 

Yeah, hard to say his seat wouldn’t be warm if we miss the tournament next year when right now, half the fanbase is already discussing scenarios in which he potentially gets replaced, lol.

[Seeking6]

3 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Yeah, hard to say his seat wouldn’t be warm if we miss the tournament next year when right now, half the fanbase is already discussing scenarios in which he potentially gets replaced, lol.

Yep. I realize that part too.

I believe in Archie but also am able to have a discussion on scenarios. If we do miss the tourney...I'm saying it's going to be trouble. That's why I keep saying this year is so important just to make tourney. If we do that I think we'll build and recruit and continue to grow under Archie and could be lined up for a special year the following....with RP at point, experienced TJD and Brunk/Hunter...add a kid like KL,etc...

[FW_Hoosier]

Just now, Seeking6 said:

Yep. I realize that part too.

I believe in Archie but also am able to have a discussion on scenarios. If we do miss the tourney...I'm saying it's going to be trouble. That's why I keep saying this year is so important just to make tourney. If we do that I think we'll build and recruit and continue to grow under Archie and could be lined up for a special year the following. 

Agreed.  All we have to do next year is make the tourney, and most of this speculation goes away.

[Hoosierhoopster]

19 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Respect you as a poster and I'm not saying this to be whatever....but completely disagree. If Archie misses the first 3 years there's no question his seat would be warm (it's IU). We experienced the same with Crean with obviously much more difficult situation.

All the things you list as a reason why a player chooses a place would be the exact reason why they would choose another school. 

Respect you a well Seeking, but no he's not in any way, shape or form warm or hot or anything like it. Honestly, guys here are in a world of their own -- I don't mean that in a disparaging way, but the level of ire and demand on a message board is not the reality of IU's coaching situation.

Without belaboring it, he's going into his third season, we all know what happened last season including the multiple injuries, loss of Hunter, Romeo playing through a hand injury requiring surgery, etc. Now the team has lost Romeo and Morgan, Hunter's situation is still somewhat unclear, and CAM is still building his team with his recruits. That's reality. The hot and warm stuff is fantasy.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Recruits want stability. 

If Archie can miss the tourney 4 years in a row and not get fired what’s even the point of pretending we want to have a legit basketball program. 

Other than Lander while stacked with talent not a lot of 1 and done talent in 2021. So all those other kids aren’t going to come here if they have a new coach in a season. 

You have your opinion, I'm just going to leave it there. 

[Seeking6]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Respect you a well Seeking, but no he's not in any way, shape or form warm or hot or anything like it. Honestly, guys here are in a world of their own -- I don't mean that in a disparaging way, but the level of ire and demand on a message board is not the reality of IU's coaching situation.

Without belaboring it, he's going into his third season, we all know what happened last season including the multiple injuries, loss of Hunter, Romeo playing through a hand injury requiring surgery, etc. Now the team has lost Romeo and Morgan, Hunter's situation is still somewhat unclear, and CAM is still building his team with his recruits. That's reality. The hot and warm stuff is fantasy.

I don't pretend to be in the know of any sort. I do however know a few pretty significant contributors in Indy's legal community and a couple others peppered around the state. I can tell you this as I type on July 25th everyone is on board....but 2 particular contributors (who shared with me exactly how Wilson's termination went down) said to me on the course last week the following. If Archie misses in year 3....the question has to be asked what are we doing. Is this another Crean? Fair or unfair. Message board sentiment or not. I'm telling you there are several who are asking the very questions/scenarios that we discuss on here.

As always I welcome good conversation but to dismiss that people aren't having these conversations isn't reality either. Problem is this isn't on Archie. It's 20 years of frustration which means every coach has less and less time to hit. I've heard the name Chris Beard 4x in the last month. People are pointing out the obvious. If they can do it in West Texas where the tumbleweed flies....why can't we? 

I know the instant society we live in. I get it...but there is a growing number of IU fans just running out of patience. 

[Billingsley99]

18 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I don't pretend to be in the know of any sort. I do however know a few pretty significant contributors in Indy's legal community and a couple others peppered around the state. I can tell you this as I type on July 25th everyone is on board....but 2 particular contributors (who shared with me exactly how Wilson's termination went down) said to me on the course last week the following. If Archie misses in year 3....the question has to be asked what are we doing. Is this another Crean? Fair or unfair. Message board sentiment or not. I'm telling you there are several who are asking the very questions/scenarios that we discuss on here.

As always I welcome good conversation but to dismiss that people aren't having these conversations isn't reality either. Problem is this isn't on Archie. It's 20 years of frustration which means every coach has less and less time to hit. I've heard the name Chris Beard 4x in the last month. People are pointing out the obvious. If they can do it in West Texas where the tumbleweed flies....why can't we? 

I know the instant society we live in. I get it...but there is a growing number of IU fans just running out of patience. 

Very well said information,  thank you. An elder in my church is a very very close relative to a head coach at IU and he has shared with me that its both Allen and CAM  were told by Glass postseason or bust.  This guy also said that if we dont make tourney and do not have 2021 recruits signed the change will happen.

[milehiiu]

19 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I don't pretend to be in the know of any sort. I do however know a few pretty significant contributors in Indy's legal community and a couple others peppered around the state. I can tell you this as I type on July 25th everyone is on board....but 2 particular contributors (who shared with me exactly how Wilson's termination went down) said to me on the course last week the following. If Archie misses in year 3....the question has to be asked what are we doing. Is this another Crean? Fair or unfair. Message board sentiment or not. I'm telling you there are several who are asking the very questions/scenarios that we discuss on here.

As always I welcome good conversation but to dismiss that people aren't having these conversations isn't reality either. Problem is this isn't on Archie. It's 20 years of frustration which means every coach has less and less time to hit. I've heard the name Chris Beard 4x in the last month. People are pointing out the obvious. If they can do it in West Texas where the tumbleweed flies....why can't we? 

I know the instant society we live in. I get it...but there is a growing number of IU fans just running out of patience. 

Money talks, and.... well you all know the rest.  When big time donors threaten to pull out.  It does open minds and ears. 

[Seeking6]

12 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Very well said information,  thank you. An elder in my church is a very very close relative to a head coach at IU and he has shared with me that its both Allen and CAM  were told by Glass postseason or bust.  This guy also said that if we dont make tourney and do not have 2021 recruits signed the change will happen.

I believe it...normally in year 3 I wouldn't but I hear these sentiments and conversations often. 

Like I said before coaches need and deserve time but there are plenty of folks way above my pay grade who actually put their money where their mouth is and I'm telling anyone....people are getting frustrated.

[Hoosierhoopster]

21 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I don't pretend to be in the know of any sort. I do however know a few pretty significant contributors in Indy's legal community and a couple others peppered around the state. I can tell you this as I type on July 25th everyone is on board....but 2 particular contributors (who shared with me exactly how Wilson's termination went down) said to me on the course last week the following. If Archie misses in year 3....the question has to be asked what are we doing. Is this another Crean? Fair or unfair. Message board sentiment or not. I'm telling you there are several who are asking the very questions/scenarios that we discuss on here.

As always I welcome good conversation but to dismiss that people aren't having these conversations isn't reality either. Problem is this isn't on Archie. It's 20 years of frustration which means every coach has less and less time to hit. I've heard the name Chris Beard 4x in the last month. People are pointing out the obvious. If they can do it in West Texas where the tumbleweed flies....why can't we? 

I know the instant society we live in. I get it...but there is a growing number of IU fans just running out of patience. 

I don't want to go into detail about who or what I know within the U, etc. Among the things being overlooked here is that IU just went through firing Crean, this is ONLY year 3 of CAM, and IU is not interested in going through another after 3 years. It isn't happening. Nor should it, this is all seriously premature.

[OGIUAndy]

Just now, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't want to go into detail about who or what I know within the U, etc. Among the things being overlooked here is that IU just went through firing Crean, this is ONLY year 3 of CAM, and IU is not interested in going through another after 3 years. It isn't happening. Nor should it, this is all seriously premature.

Not to mention his third season hasn't even started yet. Let's have this discussion when the time is appropriate (like if we miss the tourney again). Until then, it's just beating the deadest horse that ever died.