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Who's going to be most improved?


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To me it has been hard to decipher with CAM's comments and some of the other "leaks" or reports coming out.  Here are some things I recall hearing so far.  Deron Davis is cut up and in the best shape of his life but some have said Brunk, who only played 18.6 minutes a game for a terrible Butler team, will beat out Davis for a starting spot.  Call me disappointed on one hand but that leads me to question.  Can Joey Brunk we included in most improved convo?  He averaged 7.6 pts, shot 62%, and 3.6 rebs.  If he maintains these numbers and brings toughness while playing 20 minutes, I'll be pleased.  

Baby is crying.  Yall jump in here and tell me who is going to be your Most improved and why.  

 

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1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

To me it has been hard to decipher with CAM's comments and some of the other "leaks" or reports coming out.  Here are some things I recall hearing so far.  Deron Davis is cut up and in the best shape of his life but some have said Brunk, who only played 18.6 minutes a game for a terrible Butler team, will beat out Davis for a starting spot.  Call me disappointed on one hand but that leads me to question.  Can Joey Brunk we included in most improved convo?  He averaged 7.6 pts, shot 62%, and 3.6 rebs.  If he maintains these numbers and brings toughness while playing 20 minutes, I'll be pleased.  

Baby is crying.  Yall jump in here and tell me who is going to be your Most improved and why.  

 

I will say the most improved will be RP because I feel he will make a major jump in production this year.

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8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I will say the most improved will be RP because I feel he will make a major jump in production this year.

Was just fixing to bring up Rob.  This back court needs him to be a major player.  Reminder, he was shooting 44.8% from 3 before the knee to the noggin.  Wound up shooting 31% on the season.  I think we are going to see him climb back closer to 40% which will be a major help.  Doesn't get brought up enough.  

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I don't know that there are a lot of players on the team that you can honestly consider for this.

  • Toss out the freshmen.  You can't 'improve' when there is no baseline comparison.  So, not TJD or Armaan.  Hunter falls in this category as well.
  • Throw out Brunk.  Different coach, different system.  While he may improve as a player, can we actually compare what he did at Butler to what he does at IU.  If he is more successful, it could be more related to style of play and opportunity than improvement.
  • I just don't see it from Al or De'Ron.  They are what they are.  Both are key members of the team, but they each have a very defined ceiling, and both are close to that now.
  • Not Devonte.  He can definitely win a more consistent award, but I'm going to judge him on how he performed at the end of last season, which was pretty darn good.   I don't see him stepping up much higher than that level, other than to be more consistent about it.
  • Justin.  How do we categorize Justin?  He definitely has the potential to be most improved, but I don't think he will pull it off.
  • Damezi.  A candidate, for sure.  But, unfortunately, I don't see him getting the opportunity.  

That leaves Race or Rob. 

Rob definitely needs to improve his shooting percentages across the board.  For all the love we give him, a slash line of 36/31/66 is not good enough.  

All that said, I'm going to go with Race.  I've been intrigued about his potential ever since he got to IU, and I'm hoping this is his breakout year.  That said, plying time could be at a premium.  He's either going to need to simply play well enough to take some time away from others on the front court, or have an injury open up an opportunity.  there are minutes available for 4 big guys, and 5 players that will be vying for those minutes.  Conventional wisdom probably says that Race is the one on the outside looking in at this juncture, but by the Big Ten season, I think he's solidified a spot in the rotation. 

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14 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I don't know that there are a lot of players on the team that you can honestly consider for this.

  • Toss out the freshmen.  You can't 'improve' when there is no baseline comparison.  So, not TJD or Armaan.  Hunter falls in this category as well.
  • Throw out Brunk.  Different coach, different system.  While he may improve as a player, can we actually compare what he did at Butler to what he does at IU.  If he is more successful, it could be more related to style of play and opportunity than improvement.
  • I just don't see it from Al or De'Ron.  They are what they are.  Both are key members of the team, but they each have a very defined ceiling, and both are close to that now.
  • Not Devonte.  He can definitely win a more consistent award, but I'm going to judge him on how he performed at the end of last season, which was pretty darn good.   I don't see him stepping up much higher than that level, other than to be more consistent about it.
  • Justin.  How do we categorize Justin?  He definitely has the potential to be most improved, but I don't think he will pull it off.
  • Damezi.  A candidate, for sure.  But, unfortunately, I don't see him getting the opportunity.  

That leaves Race or Rob. 

Rob definitely needs to improve his shooting percentages across the board.  For all the love we give him, a slash line of 36/31/66 is not good enough.  

All that said, I'm going to go with Race.  I've been intrigued about his potential ever since he got to IU, and I'm hoping this is his breakout year.  That said, plying time could be at a premium.  He's either going to need to simply play well enough to take some time away from others on the front court, or have an injury open up an opportunity.  there are minutes available for 4 big guys, and 5 players that will be vying for those minutes.  Conventional wisdom probably says that Race is the one on the outside looking in at this juncture, but by the Big Ten season, I think he's solidified a spot in the rotation. 

I like the way you're breaking down parts of an individual player's game. I think if we look closely, we can see other areas that need addressing. 

Take turnovers...only 3 players averaged over 3 turnovers per 40 minutes last year...Green, Smith, and the departed Jake Forrester (small sample size on him). I know there's no basketball stat on "non-forced turnovers" but I saw more than a few of those from Devonte and Justin last year. 

Turnovers are killers. I know we've improved over the Crean years (339th his last year), but I'd like to see us improve from that 194th rank in D1 last year.

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:
  • I just don't see it from Al or De'Ron.  They are what they are.  Both are key members of the team, but they each have a very defined ceiling, and both are close to that now.

I think Al has the type of work ethic that you can never discount him.  He's no VO but he has the same type of mentality, just unfortunately he isn't in the top .0001% of athleticism.  

Field goals stayed the same while doubling attempts, he could improve with a little j instead of driving into 2 defenders and getting blocked.  He's already up to 34.8% from 3, a big jump from frosh year.  Would love to see him bump a few % while the line moves back a foot.  He's one of the better free throw shooters, which is nice considering his drive game.  Just want to see him make better decisions on that drive.  He already doubled his points production.  He's going to be needed to help open things up down low.  I'd bank that he has been working as hard as anyone.  With an extra year of strength training to go along with his arm length.  He's going to be a stopper too.  

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Not sure we can discount Devonte either.  One clue is his teammates just voted him Captain.  He must be leading in workouts because that was a nod of respect.

In Feb last year he averaged 6 points a game and 1.8 assists.  

In March he avg 15.4 pts, 3.8 assists, 4 boards, and over 2 steals a game.  His season averages were 9.4, 3, 3.4, and 1.4.  

If he's anywhere close to the march averages, not only is he Captain, he'll be most improved and most valuable.  

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While I like the way 5fouls broke down the candidates, I think that DeRon & Al have some significant room for improvement.

If DeRon can stay out of foul trouble, he'll get more time, more points, and more assists. CAM has said on more than one occasion that DeRon is a great post passer. If he's a fit as scuttle-butt says, he might really elevate his game.

Al might be able to become a triple threat: Shoot the 3, drive and dish/score, and run the point some.

If Green holds over his play from March to this season, that will be a HUGE improvement from overall 2018-19 season.

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There are a lot of candidates for this and there are definitely some guys I'd love to see improve, make a leap and become more consistent. For some reason I really like Damezi Anderson and would love to see him become a sniper off the bench. Justin Smith is another guy that if he can find consistency in his game and effort, and improve his skill, could make a real meaningful impact beyond what he's already done. 

As others have mentioned, Al and De'Ron can make a leap, and of course I'm intrigued by Race Thompson as well. 

With all of that said, and just looking at returning players (not counting Hunter either), the most impact "leap" for the program would be Rob Phinisee having a huge year and solidifying himself as one of the top 3-4 point guards in the Big Ten. A tall task with guys like Winston, Simpson, and Cowan, as well as freshmen like DJ Carton, etc., but Phinisee is a tough, talented kid and was on his way before the concussion. 

Phinisee making a leap would have the biggest impact on the program and Archie getting his system and style to translate into wins.  

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7 minutes ago, Bustout said:

Damezi.  Staff gave him every opportunity last year, but his freshman year was a MAJOR adjustment.  

I think we see this year why he was considered a very good recruit. 

My reply to this thread was going to be I didn’t know who it would be, but I wanted it to be Damezi. When Archie talked about him at media day he specifically mentioned his outside shooting. I think he could bring us a boost in area of need if it’s him. 

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I'll say Rob.  I recorded many of the games from last year and having watched the two games against MSU again, I had forgotten just how much Rob disrupted C. Winston. Granted, he didn't shut him down but he certainly kept him from taking over the game and he was able to frustrate him into some bad shots.  If RP can disrupt the game of a player with the skills of CW, he can stick with any guard in the conference.  All this without mention of RP's skills on offense.  Rob certainly seems a worthy candidate for most improved and perhaps even MVP for the Hoosiers.

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52 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

5 stole my logic. First one that came to my mind was Race. Nothing overly negative from what we've seen, but it hasn't been all that much. If he and Jerome both play up to their perceived potential.....things gon' get interesting 'round here.

Would love to see Race reach towards his potential.  

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18 minutes ago, iu2win said:

I'll say Rob.  I recorded many of the games from last year and having watched the two games against MSU again, I had forgotten just how much Rob disrupted C. Winston. Granted, he didn't shut him down but he certainly kept him from taking over the game and he was able to frustrate him into some bad shots.  If RP can disrupt the game of a player with the skills of CW, he can stick with any guard in the conference.  All this without mention of RP's skills on offense.  Rob certainly seems a worthy candidate for most improved and perhaps even MVP for the Hoosiers.

Rob is our most important player for sure.

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3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Need it to be Justin. 

Not really. It would be great if it is, but if Justin isn’t better, we have TJD and Race to play the 4, along with Hunter for stretches in a small ball lineup and Brunk for some stretches in a big lineup. 

Last year there were no options when Smith was struggling, this year that isn’t the case. Again, it would be great if he makes a big leap, but it’s not a requirement for this team to be good. 

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10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Not really. It would be great if it is, but if Justin isn’t better, we have TJD and Race to play the 4, along with Hunter for stretches in a small ball lineup and Brunk for some stretches in a big lineup. 

Last year there were no options when Smith was struggling, this year that isn’t the case. Again, it would be great if he makes a big leap, but it’s not a requirement for this team to be good. 

So you are saying we are good two go because two unknown commodities will have it covered?  Eh no. We need somebody with experience and capability to put it all together. 

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 I’m going with Devonte Green.  I’ve liked his skill set since his freshman year.  Good size, can shoot, has a decent handle and can defend.  He just hasn’t been consistent or stable.  

We have seen it time and again where a player really puts it together his senior year.  The game slows down, you’ve had time to physically mature, you’re playing against younger guys, and you’ve seen it all before.  If this kid becomes an all conference player, we can finally turn the corner as a program. 

I think De’Ron has been underrated by fans. He’s darn near an unstoppable force with the ball down low.  The game may be evolving but tossing it into a powerful guy down low and letting him go to work is still a nice luxury.  If he stays healthy and well conditioned he can be a consistent tough matchup for other teams night in, night out.  

The B1G is so weak this year, there’s opportunity.  Other than Michigan State, it looks like a bunch of pretenders.  The problem for IU is that, until Archie turns the corner, the program is not getting the benefit of the doubt.  Much like Tom Allen, until IU earns it in games, no one is going to tout them.  Until that happens, rightfully no one can complain about perception. 

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6 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

So you are saying we are good two go because two unknown commodities will have it covered?  Eh no. We need somebody with experience and capability to put it all together. 

I’m saying it’s been a long time since IU had this much depth at the 4/5. TJD might literally be the most under the radar McDonald’s AA we’ve ever had coming in. While Race hasn’t had a lot of on court time, he’s a top 100 guy in his 3rd year in the system, Brunk is in his 3rd year as a high major player, and Hunter can steal minutes there. 

When was the last time IU has had this many options at that position? Also, does Smith have the capability to put it all together? That a pretty big question mark too. Phinisee is far more important, at a more important position, with far less options behind him. 

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Phinisee is probably the most important and hardest to replace.  Man it would be nice to see about 6 guys all take a nice step forward where we can see obvious improvement in each of their games.  

We've predicted Rob, Deron,  Smith, Brunk, Demezi, Race, Al, and Devonte to improve and have laid out reasonable argument for each.  Bring Bobby back to the Hall and let the sunshine upon us again.  

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22 hours ago, BGleas said:

There are a lot of candidates for this and there are definitely some guys I'd love to see improve, make a leap and become more consistent. For some reason I really like Damezi Anderson and would love to see him become a sniper off the bench. Justin Smith is another guy that if he can find consistency in his game and effort, and improve his skill, could make a real meaningful impact beyond what he's already done. 

As others have mentioned, Al and De'Ron can make a leap, and of course I'm intrigued by Race Thompson as well. 

With all of that said, and just looking at returning players (not counting Hunter either), the most impact "leap" for the program would be Rob Phinisee having a huge year and solidifying himself as one of the top 3-4 point guards in the Big Ten. A tall task with guys like Winston, Simpson, and Cowan, as well as freshmen like DJ Carton, etc., but Phinisee is a tough, talented kid and was on his way before the concussion. 

Phinisee making a leap would have the biggest impact on the program and Archie getting his system and style to translate into wins.  

Good points BG. 

I like the way Fouls broke things down above, good thought behind that post, but also believe there are several guys who could significantly improve, and think you have to include Green and Damezi and Smith in that conversation. For me, Rob is going to show significant improvement in his shooting, because he's not going to come in under concussion protocol and recovery -- but he was so good otherwise last season that I don't think he's the guy who you can say will be 'most improved.' His shooting will be better, and he'll have a bigger role in the offense while he runs the team, for sure.

I personally am optimistic on Damezi. The guy can shoot, we need shooting, and we have experience and size up front now, with depth, that should open up the outside and the lane. He was a frosh, he wasn't ready defensively for CAM's system (he would've played more under Crean, vbg), and wasn't ready for the speed of the game. But he's now a soph and, without injury, has had a full season and summer to learn. The guy was a very good high school player/scorer, discounting him on his frosh year, imo, is a mistake. CAM has already talked about his shooting, which means he's going to get the opportunity. I think he'll rise to the occasion. That makes him, in my book, the top candidate for most improved.

I'd include Green because he could genuinely be the star of this team (along with, imo, Hunter). The reins are going to be a bit removed, he's a team captain, with the forwards we'll have he'll be free to light it up, and I think he's going to be settled down a bit as a senior, leading to much more consistent play.

Smith is going to be a key player, imo. How much he improves is also about consistency. Would love to see him running back door like Troy used to.

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