IU Scott Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 Just now, NotIThatLives said: I love how you point that out but skip over the fact they they were both extremely successful before the blue bloods came calling. They built programs and won big. And left for blue bloods. Where did I ever say they weren't successful because my point is that most great coaches start at the mid major level. You was wondering why IU went the mid major route and the reason is that is where most of the teams hire from. yes self left UI for KU and Cal left Memphis for UK but it I s not like they left a blueblood for another blueblood. Also Archie built a pretty good program at Dayton and had success before coming here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said: Pretty sad that you laugh at the fact that IU is considered a blue blood by the nation but then crucify it's fans and expectations. Maybe your lowered expectations are the problem? That is not from me but guys in the national media that state that about our fans. Yes we are still a blueblood but no elite and there is a difference. we have the history but we don't have the present to hang our hat on and I don't see the top coaches knocking down our door for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: Where did I ever say they weren't successful because my point is that most great coaches start at the mid major level. You was wondering why IU went the mid major route and the reason is that is where most of the teams hire from. yes self left UI for KU and Cal left Memphis for UK but it I s not like they left a blueblood for another blueblood. Also Archie built a pretty good program at Dayton and had success before coming here. Historically there are only 6 blue bloods. Only once in 40 years has a coach left o e of these blue bloods for another blue bloods. You keep saying Indiana can't get a Wright or a Bennett or even a beard who coaches in a terrible dust bucked football town. Then blames it on the fans and not an incompetent administration who would never pony up to get a proven winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: Where did I ever say they weren't successful because my point is that most great coaches start at the mid major level. You was wondering why IU went the mid major route and the reason is that is where most of the teams hire from. yes self left UI for KU and Cal left Memphis for UK but it I s not like they left a blueblood for another blueblood. Also Archie built a pretty good program at Dayton and had success before coming here. Add to this, I think we got a coach that's still ascending in his career... I've thought for the longest time every person in any professional environment that has any kind of success has a climb, the period of success, and a descent...I believe CAM's best days are ahead of him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JugRox Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, tdhoosier said: Why would NCAA limit potential earning to $5,000 off of NLI? Capping any amount will ultimately be a non-starter because WE LIVE IN AMERICA. The NBA or NFL doesn't limit how much any of their players can get paid in endorsements. They can cap salaries in their own league, but have no say in how much one can make outside of their league. Somewhere along the lines we forget that this is America and people can make as much off their likeness as companies are willing to pay for it. It should be no different for college athletics because it's simply unfair to legislate this and goes against a person's freedom. Some will argue that it hurts the institution, but i'll never put institutions above individual freedom....ever. This vary argument is why I believe congress got involved in the first place. NCAA does not own student athletes. Sorry, this topic gets me riled up time and time again. Because the Football schools would pick whoever they wanted......and Indiana is not a football school. Who could produce more money in endorsements? Michigan, Ohio State, Texas......or Indiana? lol Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, etc would be the B10 Royals while OSU, Michigan, Wisconsin would be the Yankees. Butler and non-football schools would be AAA. To me its real simple......if an athlete thinks the big, bad NCAA is taking advantage of them and an education is not worth it...... DON'T PLAY. Go pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Historically there are only 6 blue bloods. Only once in 40 years has a coach left o e of these blue bloods for another blue bloods. You keep saying Indiana can't get a Wright or a Bennett or even a beard who coaches in a terrible dust bucked football town. Then blames it on the fans and not an incompetent administration who would never pony up to get a proven winner. Give me a good reason why Wright and Bennett would leave a place where they have already proven that they can win a championship. Wright has already turned down other blue blood program so why would he do that now after winning two national championships. You act like all of the guys grew up loving IU basketball like we did but they didn't so IU is not special to them. Beard is a Texas guy and a UT alumni and he probably looks at UT like we do IU. Not saying IU is not one of the better jobs out there but just don't think the established great coaches will leave to come here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: They built programs and won big. And left for blue bloods. Self may have built Tulsa, and Calipari UMass, but both Illinois and Memphis had solid (if not tainted) programs before either arrived... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: Self may have built Tulsa, and Calipari UMass, but both Illinois and Memphis had solid (if not tainted) programs before either arrived... The point was and what Scott continues to ignore is that they were successful coaches and had built a nice program, had really good things going for them and left when the big dog came calling. We will watch and see what happens when K and Roy finally retire. You think they are going to play arou d and hire the next best mid major guy? Get out of here with that trash. And I like CAM and think he can mature into this. He just has to get some help in the backcourt next year or we will never see year 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JugRox Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: You keep saying Indiana can't get a Wright or a Bennett or even a beard who coaches in a terrible dust bucked football town. Then blames it on the fans and not an incompetent administration who would never pony up to get a proven winner. UCLA, who has better facilities, better location, more recent success, better history, more money thought the same thing last year.......and they got Mick Cronin. Bennett won't touch IU with a 10 foot pole.....why? Look up how IU treated his sister. Beard is making $4.5 million a year, Texas Tech is building a $30 million basketball practice facility that makes Cook Hall look pedestrian at best, nobody is on him when he's sitting there at 13-8 after a free fall out of the rankings, compliance isn't monitoring every time he sneezes, Texas Tech is willing to do what it takes to get grad transfers every year, he's from The Woodlands, Texas, he's a UT grad and has a master's from Abilene Christian, he told UCLA to take a hike last year. Jay Wright? lol Is that serious? You guys are WAY over estimating the candidate pool. Think more Mike White, LaVall Jordan, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JugRox Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: The point was and what Scott continues to ignore is that they were successful coaches and had built a nice program, had really good things going for them and left when the big dog came calling. We will watch and see what happens when K and Roy finally retire. You think they are going to play arou d and hire the next best mid major guy? Get out of here with that trash. And I like CAM and think he can mature into this. He just has to get some help in the backcourt next year or we will never see year 5. Duke? https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/evaluating-mike-krzyzewskis-future-at-duke-and-the-top-5-candidates-to-one-day-replace-coach-k/ UNC? https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/evaluating-roy-williams-future-at-north-carolina-and-the-top-5-candidates-to-one-day-replace-him-in-chapel-hill/ You seem to be living in the wrong decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: The point was and what Scott continues to ignore is that they were successful coaches and had built a nice program, had really good things going for them and left when the big dog came calling. We will watch and see what happens when K and Roy finally retire. You think they are going to play arou d and hire the next best mid major guy? Get out of here with that trash. And I like CAM and think he can mature into this. He just has to get some help in the backcourt next year or we will never see year 5. totally understand what you said and yes they built good mid major programs but that has nothing to do with IU. Self and Cal was looking for bigger and better things but those coaches today seem to be content staying where they are at. Few and Wright has had their chances to move to bigger and better things and have stayed put. Bennett is already coaching in one of the elite conferences and have won a national championship so why would he leave to come here. So if you are looking at coaches who is in a power conference and the big east you will be looking at guys like the Seton hall coach or maybe the Colorado coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: The point was and what Scott continues to ignore is that they were successful coaches and had built a nice program, had really good things going for them and left when the big dog came calling. We will watch and see what happens when K and Roy finally retire. You think they are going to play arou d and hire the next best mid major guy? Get out of here with that trash. And I like CAM and think he can mature into this. He just has to get some help in the backcourt next year or we will never see year 5. Duke will hire one of their former players who are head coaches now. You really think that Wright would leave for those two schools right now LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, JugRox said: Duke? https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/evaluating-mike-krzyzewskis-future-at-duke-and-the-top-5-candidates-to-one-day-replace-coach-k/ UNC? https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/evaluating-roy-williams-future-at-north-carolina-and-the-top-5-candidates-to-one-day-replace-him-in-chapel-hill/ You seem to be living in the wrong decade. Lol. How small minded of this writer to think duke will only select from a duke tree and not get the best available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Duke will hire one of their former players who are head coaches now. You really think that Wright would leave for those two schools right now LOL! Bennett would. Wright, questionable but possibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: The point was and what Scott continues to ignore is that they were successful coaches and had built a nice program, had really good things going for them and left when the big dog came calling. We will watch and see what happens when K and Roy finally retire. You think they are going to play arou d and hire the next best mid major guy? Get out of here with that trash. And I like CAM and think he can mature into this. He just has to get some help in the backcourt next year or we will never see year 5. In the examples you cite (Coach K and Roy W) I'm inclined to believe that both schools have more than enough qualified alums (Duke: Capel, Woj, would be the top 2, but you'd have to figure Amaker, Dawkins, and Hurley would be in the conversation. Possibly Quin Snyder too if he has enoght of the NBA. UNC: Wes Miller, Jerrod Haase, with Stackhouse, King Rice, and McGrath in the conversation) to choose from. Wes Miller in particular has had success at the mid-major level. I seriously doubt either will go outside of the "family." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 54 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Pitino? Haha. Lay out the improprieties next to each other. Gee wiz. Can we stop talking about the mass murderer rapist Pearl since he's such an evil person. Sometimes you guys are way over the top. And to answer your other question. Because most people outside of Hoosier Nation still consider IU and all time blue blood, top 5 or so job. I seriously doubt that. I love my Hoosiers but IU is not a top 5 job destination for a majority of high level coaches. Outside money and resources which at an SEC football school can easily be matched with half the scrutiny and job expectations why would you want to go to Indiana? College basketball every day is showing more and more you can win at an elite level at just about any major program if you get support. IU Basketball is Nebraska football....we aren't pulling the elite of the elite just because of some dusty championships and a historic coach. You need to get a good coach and ride out the turmoil and let them build a culture of success. You go out and play with fire (hiring coaches that are sketchy) and you may have some winning seasons...you may not...but cheaters don't stop cheating. Dirt balls are dirt balls. Eventually they go back to their ways...and then you soil and ruin the reputation so much that no amount of banners will save us. It's painful...but if we believe that Archie is a talented coach and recruiter then you have to let him finish what he started. Sometimes it has to get worse before it can get better. You try skipping steps in the process and trying to rush results you skip very important program building foundational moments. We don't need a quick fix and patch job. We need someone willing to do the hard work and put his sweat and blood into it...because by God when it all starts to work...he is going to feel invested and it's his program and not want to go anywhere else (Pro/Duke/UK) once we get where we want to be. I'd rather have a coach that has taken us through the dark and come out the other side then one that wins over night and is just looking to make the biggest buck he can or make a name for himself to get to the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Duke will hire one of their former players who are head coaches now. You really think that Wright would leave for those two schools right now LOL! Nope...you use them as leverage for a bigger contract.....but you have two NCs...you have a program that can win year in and year out...I assume you love the family and living of where you are....no reason to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 19 minutes ago, JugRox said: Because the Football schools would pick whoever they wanted......and Indiana is not a football school. Who could produce more money in endorsements? Michigan, Ohio State, Texas......or Indiana? lol Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, etc would be the B10 Royals while OSU, Michigan, Wisconsin would be the Yankees. Butler and non-football schools would be AAA. To me its real simple......if an athlete thinks the big, bad NCAA is taking advantage of them and an education is not worth it...... DON'T PLAY. Go pro. So, you support institutional control over individual freedom..... That's fine, but I don't. My belief is that no institution should be able to dictate compensation for NLI whether one has the choice to go there or not, because it goes against our rights. And all those things you site above are already reality. Tell me again, how many top 100 football or basketball players go to Division 2 schools? How many 5 star football players does IU get? The answer is zero or not many to both questions. But let's keep on stripping the athlete's right to be compensated for their NLI for something they have nothing to do with. Seems fair. I know you are seeing this in terms of football and basketball, but this will help many athletes in many sports. Let's not crap on them too though because of a handful of overzealous boosters. Allowing everything to play out above the table will create a market and likely limit the advantages the rule breakers receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JugRox Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 21 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Lol. How small minded of this writer to think duke will only select from a duke tree and not get the best available. Nah...he doesn't know anything. You obviously have a better grasp of the future coaches at Duke and UNC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JugRox Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 19 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: So, you support institutional control over individual freedom..... That's fine, but I don't. My belief is that no institution should be able to dictate compensation for NLI whether one has the choice to go there or not, because it goes against our rights. And all those things you site above are already reality. Tell me again, how many top 100 football or basketball players go to Division 2 schools? How many 5 star football players does IU get? The answer is zero or not many to both questions. But let's keep on stripping the athlete's right to be compensated for their NLI for something they have nothing to do with. Seems fair. I know you are seeing this in terms of football and basketball, but this will help many athletes in many sports. Let's not crap on them too though because of a handful of overzealous boosters. Allowing everything to play out above the table will create a market and likely limit the advantages the rule breakers receive. D1 athletes get in between $2,000-$5,000 a year plus full tuition paid. And apparently that's not enough....was for me back in the day. But here we are.... If you think paying athletes more is going to help non revenue sports, good luck. Not all sports are viewed equal in the athletic department and there isn't enough to go around. Now that athletes can get some endorsement money, everyone thinks the money will just flow to everyone.....its not. Lets take Butler. Their football program brings in little to nothing....its a basketball school. So, if there is an basketball recruit they need help with endorsement money, who is going to get it? And how much of it will flow towards basketball? Do you really think women's lacrosse, men's wrestling, cross country, etc will see any of this money? Or do you see more money being taken away from non revenue sports to help basketball compete in the open market? Money rules, period. In any business at any level, money gives a clear advantage in an open market. This entire thing will be based on overzealous boosters. You think people getting money from cheating will be "Nah, this endorsement money is enough for me! I'm going to stop shopping this kid around. I don't need anymore money!" Stripping an athlete's right??? DON'T PLAY. Simple....DON'T PLAY if its too hard that a hockey player won't get 1/10 as a football player. Its an open market, the 5 star athletes in the revenue sports (football primarily) will get %90 of the endorsement money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 48 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Lol. How small minded of this writer to think duke will only select from a duke tree and not get the best available. If they let Coach k have a say in it they will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 43 minutes ago, RoadToZion said: I'd LOVE to have Mike White. I'm giving Archie a chance, but if it doesn't work, Mike White should be at the top of our list. Besides his one great year that went to the elite 8 his other years have been average Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 32 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: So, you support institutional control over individual freedom..... That's fine, but I don't. My belief is that no institution should be able to dictate compensation for NLI whether one has the choice to go there or not, because it goes against our rights. And all those things you site above are already reality. Tell me again, how many top 100 football or basketball players go to Division 2 schools? How many 5 star football players does IU get? The answer is zero or not many to both questions. But let's keep on stripping the athlete's right to be compensated for their NLI for something they have nothing to do with. Seems fair. I know you are seeing this in terms of football and basketball, but this will help many athletes in many sports. Let's not crap on them too though because of a handful of overzealous boosters. Allowing everything to play out above the table will create a market and likely limit the advantages the rule breakers receive. My thinking is that the individual players don't bring the money in it is the name on the front of the jersey. IU and UK fans or really any fans will go to the games no mater who is on the roster. They buy the merchandise for the name of the university and not the individual player. The players come and go and today faster than usual but the name on the front is the constant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 29 minutes ago, JugRox said: D1 athletes get in between $2,000-$5,000 a year plus full tuition paid. And apparently that's not enough....was for me back in the day. But here we are.... If you think paying athletes more is going to help non revenue sports, good luck. Not all sports are viewed equal in the athletic department and there isn't enough to go around. Now that athletes can get some endorsement money, everyone thinks the money will just flow to everyone.....its not. Lets take Butler. Their football program brings in little to nothing....its a basketball school. So, if there is an basketball recruit they need help with endorsement money, who is going to get it? And how much of it will flow towards basketball? Do you really think women's lacrosse, men's wrestling, cross country, etc will see any of this money? Or do you see more money being taken away from non revenue sports to help basketball compete in the open market? Money rules, period. In any business at any level, the money gives a clear advantage in an open market. This entire thing will be based on overzealous boosters. Stripping and athlete's right??? DON'T PLAY. Simple....DON'T PLAY if its too hard that a hockey player won't get 1/10 as a football player. Its an open market, the 5 star athletes in the revenue sports (football primarily) will get %90 of the endorsement money. It's not about what's enough; it's about capitalizing on their own name....whatever the amount be. Why do you get to dictate what you think should be enough. I think you should only be able to make $25,000 a year....because I say so. How fair is that? And I think you are failing to comprehend what this means for athlete's in non-revenue sports. You can read the countless articles on how it will be a huge positive for women athletes. Here's one article, for example. The money is not flowing through an athletic department. If an athlete makes a name for themselves, then they can capitalize on endorsements, which is a contract between themselves and the endorsee. If they want to host a camp and teach younger kids then they can capitalize off that. You act like their's a pool of endorsement money with a set amount. It doesn't work that way. NLI endorsement money has NOTHING to do with an athletic department's budget or any other athlete in the school for that matter. Regarding Butler, if a recruit says he needs endorsement money then the coach should tell him to play his butt of and make a new for himself. That's how it works in life and that's how it should work in college basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, JugRox said: Nah...he doesn't know anything. You obviously have a better grasp of the future coaches at Duke and UNC. You quoted articles. Why don't you tell me. Better yet. We will all find out in the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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