La Tech Postgame

[FW_Hoosier]

5 hours ago, Moyeneeded said:

Still trying to figure Hunter out. Can't tout the leg condition deal very much longer. He seems (besides DD) the slowest guy out there and his shooting up to this point is lackluster. May be a confidence deal idk, but the way CAM talked at the start of the season I expected a little more. Not throwing in the towel, look at Justin. Hope he gets it going. It would add alot more to this team. 

It did occur to me that going into the season, I did not expect Anderson to be getting off the bench before Hunter like he did last night.  Anderson’s honestly had more of an impact on the wing thus far.

[Hoosierhoopster]

25 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

Well it takes time to adjust to the playing speed of high major D1 basketball. Especially after taking a year off because of injury. He will be inconsistent throughout the year. It's to be expected. He has never been overly fast he is skilled and long. Not to mention it's not like he is playing every minute of every game so he will take even longer to get up to speed with his limited minutes. 

Dead on - and to be honest this is an area where I disagree with CAM’s approach. 

Hunter has tremendous talent but it’s going to take him time — not a few early games with limited minutes, but time, including specifically playing time, to get up to the speed of the game and his confidence and timing going.

CAM’s approach, which goes with the get old mantra, is you’re either ready now or you don’t play. TJD is ready now - flat out outstanding. That works, but it limits what Hunter can add to this team this year, if you don’t see the potential in his game you’re not watching him, you’re just looking for mistakes.

I’m more a development focused guy, with more game time Hunter would contribute a lot sooner, and we still need that shooting to spread the floor, and wing play to spread the floor, for B1G play.. The play big strategy won’t work in conf play. We will get exploited. But instead of developing Hunter - and playing Anderson more, CAM is already shortening the bench and time, in the ready now or limit time approach. These are weak teams, this is the time to get guys ready. I like a number of things about CSM, this is not one of them. Of course we can beat these teams,

i’d Rather see us in unnecessarily close games against weaker teams developing the guys we will need later than playing them in limited minutes now, which, frankly, is itself unnecessary. The Brunk Smith TJD lineup isn’t going to carry the day in conf play 

btw while I don’t like izzo much as a person this is one area he excels in — why do his teams often struggle early? Because he’s developing the players and lineups for when it matters 

[DC2345]

Just now, FW_Hoosier said:

It did occur to me that going into the season, I did not expect Anderson to be getting off the bench before Hunter like he did last night.  Anderson’s honestly had more of an impact on the wing thus far.

Anderson worked his tail off in the off season and it has paid off for him so far. 

[FW_Hoosier]

6 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Now KenPom 89.  This is not a cupcake no matter how much you want to believe that.  They also forced 18 IU turnovers and out-shot IU at IU.

Teams lower rated than this solid cupcake:

5-0 SMU, 5-2 St. John's, 3-2 Northwestern, 4-1 UCLA, 4-2 Boston College, 5-1 St. Louis, 5-1 Vanderbilt, 3-2 Nebraska, 5-2 UMass & Kentucky killer U of Evansville

This was not a cupcake, solid or otherwise.  You can credit a lot of the fouls and turnovers on what the other team was doing.  Both teams improved their KenPom ratings as a result of this game. 

If you saw a good team out there, we obviously just saw different things. 

[DC2345]

Just now, FW_Hoosier said:

If you saw a good team out there, we obviously just saw different things. 

I didn't see a good team but I saw an athletic team that played hard. They win a lot of games year in and year out. They could beat plenty of power conference schools. I know Creighton isn't great but they are a middle of the pack Big East team and they only beat Louisiana Tech by 10 and that game was a lot closer throughout. I watched it and Louisiana Tech played the same way in that game. 

[IU Scott]

19 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

If you saw a good team out there, we obviously just saw different things. 

I thought LA Tech was a good team, not great but a competitive team.  Take away the first 12 minutes where I don't think IU could play any better I thought LA Tech showed great grit to stay in the game and they will compete in their conference.

[Billingsley99]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

So, what was the final line on the game?  Did Al's unnecessary basket with .3 left flip the book?

I believe  11.5

[Zlinedavid]

7 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Now KenPom 89.  This is not a cupcake no matter how much you want to believe that.  They also forced 18 IU turnovers and out-shot IU at IU.

Teams lower rated than this solid cupcake:

5-0 SMU, 5-2 St. John's, 3-2 Northwestern, 4-1 UCLA, 4-2 Boston College, 5-1 St. Louis, 5-1 Vanderbilt, 3-2 Nebraska, 5-2 UMass & Kentucky killer U of Evansville

This was not a cupcake, solid or otherwise.  You can credit a lot of the fouls and turnovers on what the other team was doing.  Both teams improved their KenPom ratings as a result of this game. 

 

28 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

If you saw a good team out there, we obviously just saw different things. 

I think you guys are saying the same thing, just from different sides of the window: "They're not a bad team".  "Yes, but they're not a good team either."

Was LATech better than Western Illinois? Absolutely.  Are they going to be a top 25 team at any point? Absolutely not.  Are they a true test of how we'll perform in B10 play? Probably not.  Are they a better indicator of where we're at when compared to other teams we've played?  Probably. 

One additional grain of salt: I've been a KenPom subscriber for the past 5 years, so I see some value in his metrics.  That said, Ken Pomeroy himself has said that his ratings in the early portion of the season aren't going to be as accurate as those late in the season.  There isn't as much of a body of work for each team yet, so some of the previous year's data has to be worked in. 

[IUwins0708]

Hunter is struggling right now big time.  He’s a shell of what he was before the injury.  Some of its a confidence thing, some of it is adjusting to the game, and I’m sure some of its anxiety from the injury.  He will be fine but obviously he’s not the player myself or many others were expecting.  I’ve never had that sort of injury to recover but I’m sure it’s tough to deal with.  He will still be vital portion of this team moving forward.

[JugRox]

1 hour ago, FW_Hoosier said:

If you saw a good team out there, we obviously just saw different things. 

LA Tech would finish above Northwestern, Nebraska, and maybe Rutgers in the B10.....

[JugRox]

30 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

 

I think you guys are saying the same thing, just from different sides of the window: "They're not a bad team".  "Yes, but they're not a good team either."

Was LATech better than Western Illinois? Absolutely.  Are they going to be a top 25 team at any point? Absolutely not.  Are they a true test of how we'll perform in B10 play? Probably not.  Are they a better indicator of where we're at when compared to other teams we've played?  Probably. 

One additional grain of salt: I've been a KenPom subscriber for the past 5 years, so I see some value in his metrics.  That said, Ken Pomeroy himself has said that his ratings in the early portion of the season aren't going to be as accurate as those late in the season.  There isn't as much of a body of work for each team yet, so some of the previous year's data has to be worked in. 

Previous year's stats will be used up to the end of December. So, some teams will drop or rise after New Years.

For a team like Indiana, who really didn't have the greatest of seasons the last 15 games or so, to be 25th in KenPom right now is impressive IMO.

[13th&Jackson]

Much has been made of the soft November schedule, and yes it's 348 according to KenPom. However, here is the SoS for some AP top 25 teams:

TN 308

LVille 315

AZ 322

VCU 326

MD 330

Utah ST 332

Gonzaga 341

TX Tech 351

A lot of teams playing soft early schedules. Much will be learned in December & January

 

 

[IU Scott]

10 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said:

Hunter is struggling right now big time.  He’s a shell of what he was before the injury.  Some of its a confidence thing, some of it is adjusting to the game, and I’m sure some of its anxiety from the injury.  He will be fine but obviously he’s not the player myself or many others were expecting.  I’ve never had that sort of injury to recover but I’m sure it’s tough to deal with.  He will still be vital portion of this team moving forward.

I would assume some of  it is just not being able to play the game or doing much activity for a whole year.   I know it is not the same but when I take a week off from work it takes me awhile to get back into the swing of things.  I work on a computer all day and if I go a week or so without working I just don't feel comfortable the first day or so.  Try doing that for a whole year and see how hard it is to get back and get in the swing of things.

[Zlinedavid]

6 minutes ago, JugRox said:

Previous year's stats will be used up to the end of December. So, some teams will drop or rise after New Years.

For a team like Indiana, who really didn't have the greatest of seasons the last 15 games or so, to be 25th in KenPom right now is impressive IMO.

Depends on how the individual stats in each game looked.  No, our W-L record was awful, but if he weighs one statistic over another, and we happened to perform better than our record in that area, we really wouldn't be overcoming anything. 

[milehiiu]

41 minutes ago, JugRox said:

Previous year's stats will be used up to the end of December. So, some teams will drop or rise after New Years.

For a team like Indiana, who really didn't have the greatest of seasons the last 15 games or so, to be 25th in KenPom right now is impressive IMO.

Just an FYI.  Ken Pom had IU at 52 at the start of this season.

[Hoosier98]

What I would like to know is how is Michigan State still number 1 in kenpom and they have two losses?  Kenpom is a very curious ranking tool.  I know it gets useful as time goes by, but I still do not see Sparty is at the top. 

Also, they have the #1 AdjO and #5 AdjD but have lost two games? How does that work?  Someone please explain...

[JugRox]

13 minutes ago, Hoosier98 said:

What I would like to know is how is Michigan State still number 1 in kenpom and they have two losses?  Kenpom is a very curious ranking tool.  I know it gets useful as time goes by, but I still do not see Sparty is at the top. 

Also, they have the #1 AdjO and #5 AdjD but have lost two games? How does that work?  Someone please explain...

First rule, KenPom shouldn't be taken seriously until after New Year's eve. Why? Because up until then KenPom uses data from the previous season for calculations.

So, until January, many games from last year are currently being used to calculate this years KenPom rating. That's why MSU, Purude, Villanova, etc are top 20 teams right now even though they have multiple losses. They had great years last year that are boosting their ranking right now.

[btownmd]

As Jug said, KenPom uses stats from returning players from the prior year, with some projections for incoming freshman.  Their returning player stats are just that good, that the adjusted efficiency numbers still have them rated #1.  As December ends, the rankings from the prior year and the projections for the freshman have been completely phased out.  It's why you see IU climbing in the rankings from 52 to 25, as our current play is much better than expected when you look at the pieces we had coming back.

 

As far as the game, that first half was a thing of beauty with both the offense and defense.  Put 2 halves together like that and we can beat a whole lot of teams. 

[FKIM01]

3 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

If you saw a good team out there, we obviously just saw different things. 

...and we obviously have two very different definitions of a solid cupcake. This team could compete in the Big Ten. Good team is a little strong but I think they'd be competitive and beat a few power 5 teams. They were a great team to schedule at this stage of the season. Not a March Madness team but not a cupcake either.

I think they'd push IU real hard if that game is played at their place.

[zerawkid]

3 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

If you saw a good team out there, we obviously just saw different things. 

I mean, define “good”?

I thought LaTech played us about as well as they could. We weathered, adjusted, and came out of it with a W...and having been incrementally challenged in a beneficial way. That was a pretty well coached team that was upperclassmen heavy. 
 

Last night was a good next step.

[zerawkid]

2 hours ago, IUwins0708 said:

Hunter is struggling right now big time.  He’s a shell of what he was before the injury.  Some of its a confidence thing, some of it is adjusting to the game, and I’m sure some of its anxiety from the injury.  He will be fine but obviously he’s not the player myself or many others were expecting.  I’ve never had that sort of injury to recover but I’m sure it’s tough to deal with.  He will still be vital portion of this team moving forward.

Agree. Try stepping away from literally anything you might physically do regularly in life and there’s BOUND to be a readjustment period. I hope a lot of folks weren’t thinking he’d be completely back up to speed in just a handful of games. 
 

Let’s see how he looks in late January.

[FW_Hoosier]

3 minutes ago, zerawkid said:

I mean, define “good”?

I thought LaTech played us about as well as they could. We weathered, adjusted, and came out of it with a W...and having been incrementally challenged in a beneficial way. That was a pretty well coached team that was upperclassmen heavy. 
 

Last night was a good next step.

The funny thing about this whole argument is, I don’t really disagree with you.  Here’s what I initially posted that started all this:

“Honestly, for as pathetically bad as our November schedule has been, the difficulty level ramps up kind of nicely.  First 5 opponents were pathetically awful, but Princeton was a step up in competition compared to the first 4 games.  Then LA Tech and SDSU are actually solid cupcakes before we enter the power conference schedule.”

I didn’t think this was a particularly controversial post, but people got really upset that I disrespected the powerhouse that is Louisiana Tech after they finished 8th in C-USA last year and attained the #90 KenPom ranking in November.  I can’t wait to see the “Beat Louisiana Tech 88-75 — November 25, 2019” banner hanging in AH next season... Lol

[zerawkid]

4 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

The funny thing about this whole argument is, I don’t really disagree with you.  Here’s what I initially posted that started all this:

“Honestly, for as pathetically bad as our November schedule has been, the difficulty level ramps up kind of nicely.  First 5 opponents were pathetically awful, but Princeton was a step up in competition compared to the first 4 games.  Then LA Tech and SDSU are actually solid cupcakes before we enter the power conference schedule.”

I didn’t think this was a particularly controversial post, but people got really upset that I disrespected the powerhouse that is Louisiana Tech after they finished 8th in C-USA last year and attained the #90 KenPom ranking in November.  I can’t wait to see the “Beat Louisiana Tech 88-75 — November 25, 2019” banner hanging in AH next season... Lol

The funny thing about context: it matters.

Yep, pretty much same thinking, just not on the same boat with labeling semantics. 😜

[Inequality]

•LaTech has some experienced players this year & this is about as good as it gets with them. They aren’t nor ever will be a team capable of competing in the B1G. Sure they gave IU a run after the 12-14 minute mark in the first half but IU also lost its own way after being up 23. Cupcake city no doubt. Otherwise, IU takes the L with that effort.

•A win is a win, kinda, but tighten up boys. The schedule is uphill from here.

•Appreciative of TJD.

[NotIThatLives]

21 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

...and we obviously have two very different definitions of a solid cupcake. This team could compete in the Big Ten. Good team is a little strong but I think they'd be competitive and beat a few power 5 teams. They were a great team to schedule at this stage of the season. Not a March Madness team but not a cupcake either.

I think they'd push IU real hard if that game is played at their place.

I don't know the conference USA landscape that well.  Is Memphis still there or are they aac?  All those juniors and seniors and athleticism, not sure if anyone should be shocked if they are a 10-12 seed while winning their conference.