Hoosierhoopster Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 As reported by Osterman of the Star, with Rob available against UCONN, that was the first game since Jan 2, 2018 that we have had all scholarship players available. Think about that a minute, how many games is that? Concussions, injuries, medical conditions, illnesses, suspensions, it’s just crazy how long that has lasted. Now — assuming we finally stay healthy — we’ll finally get to see what a full strength IU squad under CAM can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 But....but....but....injuries can't be a legitimate reason as to why a season doesn't turn out as well as expected. That's just an excuse the weak minded make. The only real solution is to fire the entire staff, the athletic department, the president and burn the arena to the ground and start over everywhere. And we better look like the 1992 Dream Team by the third game of next season, or else it just won't be good enough, dammit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said: But....but....but....injuries can't be a legitimate reason as to why a season doesn't turn out as well as expected. That's just an excuse the weak minded make. The only real solution is to fire the entire staff, the athletic department, the president and burn the arena to the ground and start over everywhere. And we better look like the 1992 Dream Team by the third game of next season, or else it just won't be good enough, dammit! Well, considering the guys on the 1992 Dream Team are all about 60 years old these days, I would hope we could put a team out there that could beat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierinbham Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 I think this is an important point that isn't always considered. That stat really puts it into perspective. On the current team, Jerome, Rob, Race, and DeRon have missed significant amounts of time due to severe injuries or medical conditions. This isn't even taking into account the "normal" injuries guys like Devonte and Al have suffered leading to time missed. We have a ton of room for improvement if the guys that have missed serious time can continue to improve. That hasn't always been the case where prior teams peaked early and never really improved. It's similar in some ways to Kentucky teams that are so inconsistent and undefined in terms of roles early in the year. As the season goes on, guys grow into roles and lineups and rotations get more defined. Hopefully this is the case for us this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 Just now, 5fouls said: Well, considering the guys on the 1992 Dream Team are all about 60 years old these days, I would hope we could put a team out there that could beat them. Scott would beg to differ .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Scott would beg to differ .... Well, most of them could probably still shoot FTs better than De'Ron....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 I would be interested to see this stat for other teams in the Big Ten... I bet it would be similar for most teams. And the next time we lose a game, all we’ll hear is that it’s going to take Rob a couple months to recover from his injuries, Hunter will need the whole year to recover from his leg condition, Davis hasn’t recovered from his Achilles injury, Green still hasn’t recovered from his hamstring injury even though he’s been playing for a month, etc., etc. It’s always something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: I would be interested to see this stat for other teams in the Big Ten... I bet it would be similar for most teams. And the next time we lose a game, all we’ll hear is that it’s going to take Rob a couple months to recover from his injuries, Hunter will need the whole year to recover from his leg condition, Davis hasn’t recovered from his Achilles injury, Green still hasn’t recovered from his hamstring injury even though he’s been playing for a month, etc., etc. It’s always something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 51 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Scott would beg to differ .... No, I would hope that a bunch of 18-22 year olds could beat some 60 year old guys LOl! Also is this pick on Scott week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 Big 10 teams and the number of players who played every game last season Purdue 8 Michigan 5 Northwestern 5 MSU 4 Rutgers 6 Wisconsin 6 Minnesota 3 (and 2 others only missed 1 game) Maryland 6 (and 2 others only missed 1 game) OSU 3 PSU 6 Nebraska 3 Illinois 5 (and 2 others only missed 1 game) Iowa 6 Indiana 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: I would be interested to see this stat for other teams in the Big Ten... I bet it would be similar for most teams. And the next time we lose a game, all we’ll hear is that it’s going to take Rob a couple months to recover from his injuries, Hunter will need the whole year to recover from his leg condition, Davis hasn’t recovered from his Achilles injury, Green still hasn’t recovered from his hamstring injury even though he’s been playing for a month, etc., etc. It’s always something. There is a lot of truth in what you say. At the same time, it's no more silly than the end of the world people fretting over 1 loss. And, let's not forget that loss came at the program's own personal house of horrors. There are what, 4/5 teams left that are undefeated? Why do IU fans assume that every other team in the country will get better as the year goes on, but their team won't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierinbham Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 42 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Big 10 teams and the number of players who played every game last season Purdue 8 Michigan 5 Northwestern 5 MSU 4 Rutgers 6 Wisconsin 6 Minnesota 3 (and 2 others only missed 1 game) Maryland 6 (and 2 others only missed 1 game) OSU 3 PSU 6 Nebraska 3 Illinois 5 (and 2 others only missed 1 game) Iowa 6 Indiana 2 Thanks for looking this up. About what I expected. Wonder what total games/minutes lost would look like. Suspect we would be the worst on that by a lot as well. Look last year was almost historically bad for injuries. Archie needs to deliver this year and next year. If someone can't see that we have huge room for improvement as guys get healthy and into established roles, I don't think anyone can convince them otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 51 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Big 10 teams and the number of players who played every game last season Purdue 8 Michigan 5 Northwestern 5 MSU 4 Rutgers 6 Wisconsin 6 Minnesota 3 (and 2 others only missed 1 game) Maryland 6 (and 2 others only missed 1 game) OSU 3 PSU 6 Nebraska 3 Illinois 5 (and 2 others only missed 1 game) Iowa 6 Indiana 2 And Indiana had 7 players who played in at least 30/35 games. You can twist these stats any which way you want to make the point you want to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 51 minutes ago, 5fouls said: There is a lot of truth in what you say. At the same time, it's no more silly than the end of the world people fretting over 1 loss. And, let's not forget that loss came at the program's own personal house of horrors. There are what, 4/5 teams left that are undefeated? Why do IU fans assume that every other team in the country will get better as the year goes on, but their team won't? Definitely agree on your point about not freaking out over one game, although I would say that the way we lost that game was kind of worryingly similar to the way we’ve lost a lot of other games over the past 2+ seasons. In addition to your point, the hand wringing over a neutral court win that will look good on the resume at the end of the season is similarly ridiculous. But as to your last question, I think IU fans make that assumption because we just don’t have an established track record of consistent improvement over the course of a season at this point. Last season’s losing streak needs no further discussion, and both of Archie’s first two years have been punctuated by embarrassing collapses at the end of the season. All that being said, this is definitely the healthiest the team has been since he got here, so hopefully he’ll be able to reverse that trend. The opportunity is there for the taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 We had our 2 best players all season. Stop with the injury nonsense. MSU lost its 2nd best player for the season and still made the FF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: We had our 2 best players all season. Stop with the injury nonsense. MSU lost its 2nd best player for the season and still made the FF. Might had Romeo for the year but he played with a wrist injury most of the year. it is not an excuse but a reason for the bad season. It is just not the games you worry about but injuries keep you from practicing together as a teams so you don't get that chemistry together as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 44 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: And Indiana had 7 players who played in at least 30/35 games. You can twist these stats any which way you want to make the point you want to make. ok I think you're twisting things here. Please identify the other B1G teams that did not have all scholarship players available for I think it's appx 60 games. Please then identify how IU's lack of all scholarship players (and really, starters) since Jan 2018 compares with other teams nationally. I'm interested to see if you can back up your premise. That our situation is "similar" to most other teams. I seriously doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 26 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: We had our 2 best players all season. Stop with the injury nonsense. MSU lost its 2nd best player for the season and still made the FF. Injury nonsense? OK. Back it up. Identify how many games we haven't had our full compliment of scholarship players available for (50? around 60?) and compare it to the rest of the teams. Then identify how many games Rob missed, you know, ie our starting point guard, how many games Green missed, and how many games our other starters missed, and compare that to the other B1G teams. Hunter's loss of an entire season. Don't cherry pick. It's not "nonsense" it's just basic reality, we ended up short-handed. You can take the position that we still should've won, that it was more about chemistry issues, etc., that's all good, but come on, our situation was not usual, and saying that just makes you look like an excuse maker in the other direction, the flip side of what you're calling people who note the inability of the team to front a full squad, for basically a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Injury nonsense? OK. Back it up. Identify how many games we haven't had our full compliment of scholarship players available for (50? around 60?) and compare it to the rest of the teams. Then identify how many games Rob missed, you know, ie our starting point guard, how many games Green missed, and how many games our other starters missed, and compare that to the other B1G teams. Don't cherry pick. It's not "nonsense" it's just basic reality, we ended up short-handed. You can take the position that we still should've won, that it was more about chemistry issues, etc., that's all good, but come on, our situation was not usual, and saying that just makes you look like an excuse maker in the other direction, the flip side of what you're calling people who note the inability of the team to front a full squad, for basically a season. I think him and some other people are only happy when they are miserable and have to have things to complain about. I use to tell them over at rivals when they were calling for Crean's head be careful what you wish for. They all said if we make a change it will turn it the program around. Now less than 3 years later they are calling for another coaches head over there. I just come to the conclusion is that no matter what he coach is and how well they do these people will find something to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 Call me what you want. Call me an Archie apologist, say I'm making excuses, whatever. Injuries derailed last season. Were there other things too? Sure. Could we still have found a way to make the tournament even with the injuries? Sure. Realistically, we were probably a Rob Phinisee missed free throw (at Iowa just before Bohannon hit the buzzer beating 3 to send it to OT) away from making the tournament. But, injuries absolutely derailed the season. If you give IU a completely healthy Phinisee, Hunter and Race, which for the most part were more your freakish type of things (so I'm saying keep the Langford and Davis injuries, and the nagging ones Green had as well as his suspension), then IU would have been a tournament lock last season. Hunter and an consistently healthy Phinisee would added offensive punch, and both Hunter and Race would have given Archie options when Smith was dogging it and with Race when Davis was injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, BGleas said: Call me what you want. Call me an Archie apologist, say I'm making excuses, whatever. Injuries derailed last season. Were there other things too? Sure. Could we still have found a way to make the tournament even with the injuries? Sure. Realistically, we were probably a Rob Phinisee missed free throw (at Iowa just before Bohannon hit the buzzer beating 3 to send it to OT) away from making the tournament. But, injuries absolutely derailed the season. If you give IU a completely healthy Phinisee, Hunter and Race, which for the most part were more your freakish type of things (so I'm saying keep the Langford and Davis injuries, and the nagging ones Green had as well as his suspension), then IU would have been a tournament lock last season. Hunter and an consistently healthy Phinisee would added offensive punch, and both Hunter and Race would have given Archie options when Smith was dogging it and with Race when Davis was injured. I'll just call you reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev_AK Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 I may not be completely accurate, but take away the 1-12 stretch, punctuated by Rob’s injury, which seeemed to be the straw that broke the camel’s back, and I think the team was 12-2, then 6-2, which was 18-4, including a win vs MSU. I’m not a Pollyanna and I have my doubts, but last year was exceptionally bad for injuries. The colts were not the same team with Curtis Painter at the helm, ( something I am obviously still bitter about) so to act like injuries don’t matter is a bit of a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68Hoosier Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 It will be nice to see what they can do at full strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 57 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: ok I think you're twisting things here. Please identify the other B1G teams that did not have all scholarship players available for I think it's appx 60 games. Please then identify how IU's lack of all scholarship players (and really, starters) since Jan 2018 compares with other teams nationally. I'm interested to see if you can back up your premise. That our situation is "similar" to most other teams. I seriously doubt it. It’s an almost impossible stat to look up for other teams, for the simple fact that it’s a classic cherry-picked stat to try and make a point. The “streak” can be pretty much entirely attributed to the injuries to three players: Davis, Hunter, and Thompson. 7 out of the 10 players in our rotation in 2017 didn’t miss a game. In 2018, Green missed 4 games, Phinisee missed 3 games, and Durham missed 1 game. Almost every team in college basketball has those kinds of minor injuries crop up throughout the season. But as an example, take MSU last year. They’ve been without Josh Langford for an entire calendar year. They went 4-1 down the stretch of the regular season while Nick Ward sat out a month after getting hand surgery, and they made the Final Four with Kyle Ahrens missing the entire tournament. Those injuries were just as serious as anything we’ve dealt with over the last two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 Lots of teams have injuries every year and most of them are on scholarship. Yes we had a pretty bad year last year with injuries but its not like we're the only ones each year that have an injured player. Here is the currently list of all Div1 school and their injury list. The team names are there but in white for some reason, if you search for a team you can see the name or just highlight the area above the list to see https://newsday.sportsdirectinc.com/basketball/ncaab-injuries.aspx?page=/data/ncaab/injury/injuries.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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