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hoosiermd

hoosiermd

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said:

This post is fallacious and not consistent with math and statistics.  You pick one outlier situation and try to make a proposition out of it.  That’s a false analysis because you could find a thousand coaches that went the other way to that one example.  If you go down that path, you actually prove the opposite point, which is if you suck for four years, you just suck.  A lot of people who aren’t into science or math misunderstand this.  

If I could have given this post 1000 likes I would have. Archie isn’t the guy. The rest is now just playing out the string.

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IU Scott

IU Scott

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

This post is fallacious and not consistent with math and statistics.  You pick one outlier situation and try to make a proposition out of it.  That’s a false analysis because you could find a thousand coaches that went the other way to that one example.  If you go down that path, you actually prove the opposite point, which is if you suck for four years, you just suck.  A lot of people who aren’t into science or math misunderstand this.  

You can find them both ways like Bennet at UVA and Wright at Villanova  where they struggled for a few years and turn them around.

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IU Scott

IU Scott

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Rev_AK said:

This is why i love this forum. Truthful yet tactful discussion. Twitter (#iubb) is flowing with the darkside right now. We should be able to criticize wihout eating our own. I have a few doubts, but I am IU all the way, every day. Having said that, i have a few questions, which i feel are legit.

when TJD was dominant in the first half, he was pulled while having the hot hand. I used to get really frustrated with Crean for that. I dont want to hear that these kids need “rest”. They are in the best shape they are ever going to be in

Free Throw shooting IS on the coach. Make them shoot them by the hundreds. There are enough volunteers on campus that would chase down rebounds and help.

On the flip side, Archie did recruit shooters... they just didnt commit to IU. I saw Lester Q and DJ Carton are both good shooters, but alas for other teams. How much can a coach work kids on shooting? Don’t know, but they need more work. They are a poor shooting team. 

Jerome injured? Rob unhealthy? All the injuries last year?

is it time to evaluate what these guys ARE doing in practice, wrestling? They are certainly not shooting 3’s and free throws. 

Thank you, posters. Keeping a level head will help these young players, and young coach, and family members reading these boards from thinking we are the worst fanbase this side of Lexington.. criticism warranted, but civility rules!! GO IU

I am sure they practice free throws in practice and remember they were shooting around 74% from the line earlier in the season.

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Moyeneeded

Moyeneeded

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48 minutes ago, hoosier_exotics said:

😂 DBM I  know you ruffle some feathers, and mostly on purpose.  I dont agree with you on some things,  but I'm 100% in agreement on our backcourt recruiting.   If Archie cant bring in a few good guards, it will ultimately cost him his job.

The offense is fine if we can shoot, you know that.

The reality is, basketball is a guards game. And we dont have them! Which falls directly on our staff...

Getting older means jack if two years in a row, our freshman are our best players. Its pretty telling of what we were left

Its pretty telling of what we were left...or how this staff has developed them!

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bobtcat2

bobtcat2

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59 minutes ago, HoagieRoll said:

Another tourney miss, or even sneaking in as a 10 and losing the first game should be enough to get his seat hot. Point to one guy who’s improved in the last 2+ yrs, Crean or Archie recruit, since they’ve gotten to IU. This is just sad

I can't argue with that.  Player development has been a major, major issue.

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IU Scott

IU Scott

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7 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

First of all, social media wasn't around back then so no, as you say, keyboard big people were around. Plus, Duke was not exactly a BBall powerhouse either, so fans were much more patient than the "what have you done for us lately" fans of today.

Yes they were and you would know that if you did some research.  Two years before coach K got there they were in the championship game.  Also on anther forum someone did some research and Duke has spent more time in the top 5 of the polls than any other program from the 50' through the 80;s

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IUskim

IUskim

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Just now, hoosiermd said:

That’s a great question. I don’t know. 🙁

I just kind of get tired of this whole the guy narrative people say he isn’t the guy all the time which is fine maybe he isn’t, but then who is? I think people are naive to think we can get a power 5 coach in here or even Gregg Marshall for that matter so would we not have to go to another up and coming mid major coach and do this all over again?

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IU Scott

IU Scott

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1 minute ago, IUskim said:

I just kind of get tired of this whole the guy narrative people say he isn’t the guy all the time which is fine maybe he isn’t, but then who is? I think people are naive to think we can get a power 5 coach in here or even Gregg Marshall for that matter so would we not have to go to another up and coming mid major coach and do this all over again?

Been saying that for years and think some of our fan base are not realistic or they are naïve to the fact we are not an elite program

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HoosierDom

HoosierDom

Posted
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1 minute ago, IUskim said:

I just kind of get tired of this whole the guy narrative people say he isn’t the guy all the time which is fine maybe he isn’t, but then who is? I think people are naive to think we can get a power 5 coach in here or even Gregg Marshall for that matter so would we not have to go to another up and coming mid major coach and do this all over again?

I think that's very much where we are right now. There are a few guys out there that would be better, but unless we know we can get one of those guys, then we stick with what we have. There is a high price to pay in terms of recruiting and ability to attract coaches, and there aren't many coaches who make that worthwhile. 

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IUskim

IUskim

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2 minutes ago, Moyeneeded said:

Sucks that we have this one away with several highly reguarded recruits sitting behind the bench.

Maybe. Kaufman could have liked what he saw in the first half on how Archie would use him. Assuming he’s still the coach when it comes time for Kaufman to make decision. 

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Moyeneeded

Moyeneeded

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1 minute ago, HoosierDom said:

I think that's very much where we are right now. There are a few guys out there that would be better, but unless we know we can get one of those guys, then we stick with what we have. There is a high price to pay in terms of recruiting and ability to attract coaches, and there aren't many coaches who make that worthwhile. 

I guarantee that there are great coaches out there that wouldn't consider this job because of this fanbase.

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hoosiermd

hoosiermd

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6 minutes ago, IUskim said:

I just kind of get tired of this whole the guy narrative people say he isn’t the guy all the time which is fine maybe he isn’t, but then who is? I think people are naive to think we can get a power 5 coach in here or even Gregg Marshall for that matter so would we not have to go to another up and coming mid major coach and do this all over again?

That's fair. I think the easy out is what IU Scott has done and just says Indiana isn't "elite" anymore and if you believe that then everything else makes sense. If Indiana is just run of the mill and is simply your average program, then expectations should adjust accordingly. It's that simple. If all we are in Kansas State or NC State or Alabama then yeah, give Archie 10 years and if we make a couple of Sweet 16s then everyone will be really really happy and we can all go home.

History simply says otherwise as does our fanbase so operating out of the assumption that we aren't a blueblood or that we don't have a history is just silly and unfortunate because it doesn't really provide any real solutions even though it falls under the guise of "hey I'm the only reasonable one here." so it has the appearance of wisdom yet is just fallacy at its finest trying to feel good about themselves for being a loser and accepting mediocrity. The IU fanbase simply won't accept average and that is where you have to come at the problem. 

I think more than anything Indiana simply is working in the shadow of Bob Knight. It's really that simple and for those of us old enough to know, that SHADOW is enormous. I think most of us who were around for Knight's glory years probably believe deep down Knight could have taken 7-8 solid 3* Indiana HS kids and beat Arkansas by 20. It's just the truth. Like the man or don't like him, he's arguably the greatest basketball mind the world has every produced. 

The other problem is that Indiana has no lineage & you have an administration that has worked against the program. Just look a the plethora of postings on this forum and you'll find enough support for that to be true. But the lineage is important. Just going back 50 years, Louisville went from Denny Crum to Rick Pitino to Chris Mack. Duke went from Bill E. Foster to Mike Krzyzewski and Foster did well while at Duke. UNC pretty much went from Dean Smith to Roy Williams. Matt Doherty only got 3 years at UNC. How many years to Billy Gillespie get at UK? I think it was 2 and didn't he 20 games in his 2nd year? Michigan St. went from Heathcote to Izzo. UCLA has had similar problems going on from John Wooden. 

Who the heir apparent is? I have no idea, but was UNC or UK really hurt by pulling the trigger so fast? Did Indiana really benefit from being patient with Tom Crean? 

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BobSaccamanno

BobSaccamanno

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10 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

You can find them both ways like Bennet at UVA and Wright at Villanova  where they struggled for a few years and turn them around.

Developing coaches like those guys are different.  I remember when they were young and they were HIGHLY regarded.  There’s simply no evidence that Archie is in that category.   Those guys took time to develop which is different from sucking. No one thought they were struggling.  You’re a nice guy but this isn’t sound analysis.  

We were 12-2 last year and the staff was helpless despite having Romeo and Juwan.  Adjustments were lacking.  If anyone read this board, there were plenty of well thought out adjustments that people proposed.  Yet our staff mostly decided to stay with the plan, with catastrophic results.  

Today’s loss should never, ever have happened.  I don’t think even Mike Davis, who was a rank amateur, would have lost this game.  For all his follies, he understood valuing the ball.  

The next AD is an important guy.  We need forward thinking, not somebody thinking in the past.  We also need a dynamic guy with outside thinking who can be persuasive with the higher ups in the administration and Board.

We don’t necessarily need an IU guy.  I have no idea who are assistant ADs at places like Duke and Kansas but I’d take a look at people with know how as to how to  positively run basketball.  I like IU football as much as most, but B-ball will always butter the bread here.  It’s good business for the school to fix it.  


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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