Interesting article - thoughts?

[IowaHoosierFan]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/watchstadium.com/news/comparing-tenures-of-college-basketball-coaches-who-were-fired-resigned-or-upgraded-05-02-2019/amp/

[IowaHoosierFan]

I think this supports both sides of the argument we have been having on this forum concerning how long do you keep a coach and what indicators do you look for to judge success.

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I think this supports both sides of the argument we have been having on this forum concerning how long do you keep a coach and what indicators do you look for to judge success.

Agree. I don't think this article supports one school of thought or the other. Takeaways from this article will be colored by initial thoughts going into it. 

It would be easy to say that the coaches fired didn't get much of a chance and the programs were pretty impatient based on the short average tenure. On the flip side, it's also easy to conclude that the coaches who "make it" tend be coaches who hit the ground running and make the tournament early/often. All depends on your viewpoint coming into it. 

Either way, thanks for sharing. It was an interesting read. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

I don't know, most of the dialogue I've seen has been on the number of years CAM should get before we really start talking seriously about whether he should be 'fired.' The article reflects the average tenure at power conference schools of 5.3 years before a firing, including the exceptionally short 2-year term of Jones at Cal. The article says years 5 and 6 often mark a decision point among university power brokers. Have people here been saying he gets at least 7 years? Seems like most are saying you have to give him at least 4 before getting into this decision-making discussion.

Probably also worth noting that 20 of the 29 fired coaches won less than half their games.

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't know, most of the dialogue I've seen has been on the number of years CAM should get before we really start talking seriously about whether he should be 'fired.' The article reflects the average tenure at power conference schools of 5.3 years before a firing, including the exceptionally short 2-year term of Jones at Cal. The article says years 5 and 6 often mark a decision point among university power brokers. Have people here been saying he gets at least 7 years? Seems like most are saying you have to give him at least 4 before getting into this decision-making discussion.

Probably also worth noting that 20 of the 29 fired coaches won less than half their games.

And right now I think Archie's winning% is around 59.  I agree that most who are saying be patient are not saying he should get 6 or 7 years but at least 4 before judging a coach.

[IowaHoosierFan]

13 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't know, most of the dialogue I've seen has been on the number of years CAM should get before we really start talking seriously about whether he should be 'fired.' The article reflects the average tenure at power conference schools of 5.3 years before a firing, including the exceptionally short 2-year term of Jones at Cal. The article says years 5 and 6 often mark a decision point among university power brokers. Have people here been saying he gets at least 7 years? Seems like most are saying you have to give him at least 4 before getting into this decision-making discussion.

Probably also worth noting that 20 of the 29 fired coaches won less than half their games.

Agreed but most have been saying year 4 is the hot seat year if he doesn't make the tourney which makes year 5 a possible firing year.

The big take away I got was that almost every one of those let go had missed the tourney every year. 

 

[13th&Jackson]

Some of this is probably influenced by the length of initial contracts. I believe it was Lou Holtz who said, one time he was hired, he told the AD that he had a five year plan. He thought to himself that the reason he had a five year plan was his five year contract. If he had a four year contract, it would have been a four year plan. 

[IU Scott]

Once the frustration of a game is over and people take a few deep breathes I feel that all of us wants the same thing from this program.  We all want to get back to being elite and competing for big ten and national championships.  I just think the difference is how we think we should go about getting there and what is needed to get there.  I just don't want to get to the point where we are firing coaches or AD's every few years if they don't turn it around right away.  When you see programs or organizations that fire coaches like that ( look at the Browns) you find an inept organization.  I think if you can get continuity with the right people then we will get back to where we want to.

[Hoosierhoopster]

6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Once the frustration of a game is over and people take a few deep breathes I feel that all of us wants the same thing from this program.  We all want to get back to being elite and competing for big ten and national championships.  I just think the difference is how we think we should go about getting there and what is needed to get there.  I just don't want to get to the point where we are firing coaches or AD's every few years if they don't turn it around right away.  When you see programs or organizations that fire coaches like that ( look at the Browns) you find an inept organization.  I think if you can get continuity with the right people then we will get back to where we want to.

Yes, though some (this is not directed at the OP) just chime in whenever there's a L and are either just nayayers, debbie downers, or trolls. I'm not into calling people out as trolls and am not going to here, but that's pretty obvious stuff.

I think most of us here want the same thing, to get back to a consistent top flight bball program, but it's usually how quickly we should expect to get there, and the debate is usually about how much impact injuries or having 'Crean' players on the roster and that kind of stuff does or should factor in.

Bottom line for me, we're just starting conf play in year 3, there really isn't a legitimate debate that not having our lead, veteran (and really only) point guard healthy for most of this season, or a contributing veteran Davis, and getting Hunter back to form and anticipated contribution after a missed season, have slowed this ship. Any calls for CAM's head this year are just premature. I would agree that he has to have success at least by next season, that's year 4, or he will be feeling the heat. I personally think he, and IU, are going to be fine.

This season has a lot that remains to be seen in it. We have the hardest, or one of the hardest remaining schedules in D1 ball. I expect to see improvement, regardless. I expect to see the team fight for W's and learn from the second-half collapses, especially the Neb game that we should've won (we were up 11 with something like 8 to go), all of the wailing about that game should not discount the fact that we WERE winning and winning well, but we blew it down that 8-minute stretch. I expect to see continuing recruiting for shooting / wings, and some good recruiting lands. I expect to see continuing improvement and, eventually, either starting this season or next, consistent NCAA appearances. 

[Bedford1432]

1 hour ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Agreed but most have been saying year 4 is the hot seat year if he doesn't make the tourney which makes year 5 a possible firing year.

The big take away I got was that almost every one of those let go had missed the tourney every year. 

 

Boy if you cannot make the ncaa in four years i really dont know how you deserve a 5th. Heck it didnt even take crean 5 years starting with nothing. I done like crean but Archie was left a lot moe than crean was to work with.

 

I guess you can call me inpatient but four years should be plenty of time to make the ncaa when you are paid top ten money. There should be an expectation of it.

 

[BADGERVOL]

15 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yes, though some (this is not directed at the OP) just chime in whenever there's a L and are either just nayayers, debbie downers, or trolls. I'm not into calling people out as trolls and am not going to here, but that's pretty obvious stuff.

I think most of us here want the same thing, to get back to a consistent top flight bball program, but it's usually how quickly we should expect to get there, and the debate is usually about how much impact injuries or having 'Crean' players on the roster and that kind of stuff does or should factor in.

Bottom line for me, we're just starting conf play in year 3, there really isn't a legitimate debate that not having our lead, veteran (and really only) point guard healthy for most of this season, or a contributing veteran Davis, and getting Hunter back to form and anticipated contribution after a missed season, have slowed this ship. Any calls for CAM's head this year are just premature. I would agree that he has to have success at least by next season, that's year 4, or he will be feeling the heat. I personally think he, and IU, are going to be fine.

This season has a lot that remains to be seen in it. We have the hardest, or one of the hardest remaining schedules in D1 ball. I expect to see improvement, regardless. I expect to see the team fight for W's and learn from the second-half collapses, especially the Neb game that we should've won (we were up 11 with something like 8 to go), all of the wailing about that game should not discount the fact that we WERE winning and winning well, but we blew it down that 8-minute stretch. I expect to see continuing recruiting for shooting / wings, and some good recruiting lands. I expect to see continuing improvement and, eventually, either starting this season or next, consistent NCAA appearances. 

And this fanbase (for the most part) is smart enough to see improvement apart from necessarily wins and losses IMO.

[IowaHoosierFan]

59 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

And this fanbase (for the most part) is smart enough to see improvement apart from necessarily wins and losses IMO.

The problem I have is that I haven't seen much improvement and it concerns me.  I am sure there had been some improvement but they are not glaring.

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yes, though some (this is not directed at the OP) just chime in whenever there's a L and are either just nayayers, debbie downers, or trolls. 

I do not just chime in when we lose but I will admit I am a bit a pessimist these days concerning IU basketball.  Mostly I like the discussion.  I know CAM will be here for at least 2 more years.  I still like voicing my concerns and hearing others view points.  Occasionally I even change my mind over things.  What doesn't help is the group of posters who call anyone not being positive stupid and uneducated or idiotic like it's impossible to think differently

[Beowulf50]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Once the frustration of a game is over and people take a few deep breathes I feel that all of us wants the same thing from this program.  We all want to get back to being elite and competing for big ten and national championships.  I just think the difference is how we think we should go about getting there and what is needed to get there.  I just don't want to get to the point where we are firing coaches or AD's every few years if they don't turn it around right away.  When you see programs or organizations that fire coaches like that ( look at the Browns) you find an inept organization.  I think if you can get continuity with the right people then we will get back to where we want to.

The Browns are a dumpster fire! They are a organization that never seems to get it right and where players and coaches go to die!! IU has a history of being great in basketball and we have been waiting far to long for stability and resurgence!! How many years of missing the NCAA tournament until we are completely swept under the rug and considered a dumpster fire program??

[BADGERVOL]

16 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

The problem I have is that I haven't seen much improvement and it concerns me.  I am sure there had been some improvement but they are not glaring.

And although I love CAM I have to agree

[Hoosierhoopster]

46 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I do not just chime in when we lose but I will admit I am a bit a pessimist these days concerning IU basketball.  Mostly I like the discussion.  I know CAM will be here for at least 2 more years.  I still like voicing my concerns and hearing others view points.  Occasionally I even change my mind over things.  What doesn't help is the group of posters who call anyone not being positive stupid and uneducated or idiotic like it's impossible to think differently

You did see where I said not directed at the op, right? 

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

You did see where I said not directed at the op, right? 

Yeah I was just being a bit honest about my posting lately

[rico]

16 hours ago, Bedford1432 said:

Boy if you cannot make the ncaa in four years i really dont know how you deserve a 5th. Heck it didnt even take crean 5 years starting with nothing. I done like crean but Archie was left a lot moe than crean was to work with.

 

I guess you can call me inpatient but four years should be plenty of time to make the ncaa when you are paid top ten money. There should be an expectation of it.

 

I can't disagee with anything you said there especially when it is IU.  That being said a lot of schools pull the trigger too fast on coaches that have success simply because they want more.  Rick Barnes is a perfect example of this.  Steve fell into a perfect trap at UCLA...it will be interesting as to what Mick does in Westwood.  Xavier has been used to winning for so long...so let's keep an eye on Travis Steele.  How many years will those two get?  Time will tell.