2023 NFL Discussion

[IU Scott]

Both Indy pro teams played the defending champions at home and  both lost.  Pacers loss to the Bucs 118-100 and the Colts lost 38-41 to the Bucs.  Nothing says mediocrity like these two teams, Colts 6-6 and Pacers 9-13

Edited November 29, 2021 by IU Scott

[btownqb]

17 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Both Indy pro teams played the defending champions at home and  both lost.  Pacers loss to the Bucs 118-100 and the Colts lost 38-41 to the Bucs.  Nothing says mediocrity like these two teams, Colts 6-6 and Pacers 9-13

This wasn't a Colts year or last to make any sort of noise. Hard to recover from a top 5 QB flat out quitting on you. 

Ballard and that organization have done an incredible job rebuilding in that small amount of time. 

WR2 and field corner away from being an elite football team. Wentz was obviously the right move.. and it takes some time. 

[rico]

Go Ravens...

[Seeking6]

Tough loss for the Colts fans on here. I'll echo what others have said and what I've said since 12 quit on his mates. They've been chasing for a few years the entire team and honestly they are about 9 plays (and 2-3 calls) from being 10-2. 

NFL is razor thin. All I know is if I'm an AFC contender the Colts are the team I don't want to face in playoffs early.

[Billingsley99]

Frank catching lots of heat by the national guys for his usage or lack thereof of Taylor. Hearing a few people that think the Colts are the best team in the AFC from top to bottom and that if Frank did a better job they wold be the #1 seed.Earlier today Greenie said that if the Colts get in he is picking them to be in the Super Bowl. 

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Frank catching lots of heat by the national guys for his usage or lack thereof of Taylor. Hearing a few people that think the Colts are the best team in the AFC from top to bottom and that if Frank did a better job they wold be the #1 seed.Earlier today Greenie said that if the Colts get in he is picking them to be in the Super Bowl. 

LAUGHABLE

Frank Reich didn't fumble twice or throw a pick or drop a punt. He didn't miss the kicks in Balt or decide to have our entire starting secondary out. I'll give ya the Titans game. We absolutely could have/should have ran the ball more that day. 

Taylor was absolutely stuff yesterday until the Bucs changed defenses late in the game. Quite honestly I think Reich and Eberflus can flat out coach. 

And yes, we absolutely have a team built to win in Jan.. just gotta get there lol 

I think win 4 of your next 5 and you're in. 

[Billingsley99]

6 minutes ago, btownqb said:

LAUGHABLE

Frank Reich didn't fumble twice or throw a pick or drop a punt. He didn't miss the kicks in Balt or decide to have our entire starting secondary out. I'll give ya the Titans game. We absolutely could have/should have ran the ball more that day. 

Taylor was absolutely stuff yesterday until the Bucs changed defenses late in the game. Quite honestly I think Reich and Eberflus can flat out coach. 

And yes, we absolutely have a team built to win in Jan.. just gotta get there lol 

I think win 4 of your next 5 and you're in. 

My only issue with Frank is that even though Taylor was stuffed he went completely away from the run. We had success in the first half just by mixing in a few runs and allowing Wentz to carve up the defense. Once we abandoned the run the Bucs changed Defense in the 3rd and we continued to throw the ball. The defense in the 3rd was the same as it was in the 4th and Taylor had no issues. Like I said in the game thread the Colts beat themselves and are showing just how good they are but need to finish.

 

I called into the Greenie show 2 weeks ago and I told them I believe the Colts would beat the Bills and Bucs and make a deep playoff run. Greenie said he could see that. They have proved they can play with anyone but beating anyone has eluded them for the most part. 

Texans and Jags are wins. You have to win 2 out of NE, Arizona and the Raiders. I see 4 of 5 just like you. 

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

My only issue with Frank is that even though Taylor was stuffed he went completely away from the run. We had success in the first half just by mixing in a few runs and allowing Wentz to carve up the defense. Once we abandoned the run the Bucs changed Defense in the 3rd and we continued to throw the ball. The defense in the 3rd was the same as it was in the 4th and Taylor had no issues. Like I said in the game thread the Colts beat themselves and are showing just how good they are but need to finish.

 

I called into the Greenie show 2 weeks ago and I told them I believe the Colts would beat the Bills and Bucs and make a deep playoff run. Greenie said he could see that. They have proved they can play with anyone but beating anyone has eluded them for the most part. 

Texans and Jags are wins. You have to win 2 out of NE, Arizona and the Raiders. I see 4 of 5 just like you. 

Gotta gotta beat NE & LV...just can't give up any more tie breakers. Sucks to lose that game....just a second half with too many mistakes...especially a muffed punt with free points. We lost to a good team...that happens...the bad start to the season is just a whole lot to overcome. The good teams show their true colors in late November and December. I think we are right there with those teams on a talent basis but we put ourselves in a bad hole.

[btownqb]

5 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

My only issue with Frank is that even though Taylor was stuffed he went completely away from the run. We had success in the first half just by mixing in a few runs and allowing Wentz to carve up the defense. Once we abandoned the run the Bucs changed Defense in the 3rd and we continued to throw the ball. The defense in the 3rd was the same as it was in the 4th and Taylor had no issues. Like I said in the game thread the Colts beat themselves and are showing just how good they are but need to finish.

 

I called into the Greenie show 2 weeks ago and I told them I believe the Colts would beat the Bills and Bucs and make a deep playoff run. Greenie said he could see that. They have proved they can play with anyone but beating anyone has eluded them for the most part. 

Texans and Jags are wins. You have to win 2 out of NE, Arizona and the Raiders. I see 4 of 5 just like you. 

I don't believe offensive play calling played any sort of part in the outcome yesterday. Our very first possession of the game we were stuffed twice and had to kick. 

Also... hard to tell what would have happened without the turnovers. Idk ... I just can't look past the turnovers, it trumps everything else. 

[Billingsley99]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I don't believe offensive play calling played any sort of part in the outcome yesterday. Our very first possession of the game we were stuffed twice and had to kick. 

Also... hard to tell what would have happened without the turnovers. Idk ... I just can't look past the turnovers, it trumps everything else. 

26 straight pass plays, you don't feel that made a difference. 

[Billingsley99]

My last statement about play  calling. Every team in America tries to game plan on defense to take away what the other team does well. If a team plans to take away your best player is the best option to take that player out. Basically that is what Frank did. Taylor was the best player on the field, and you just let him be a non factor. 

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

26 straight pass plays, you don't feel that made a difference. 

No lol 

The box was absolutely stacked. There is ALWAYS things you wish you would have done differently/better..... but Reich, Wentz, the Colts know what they're doing. Turnovers were sooooooo much more of a problem than 26 straight pass plays. 

Output is ultimately what matters, actually it's the only thing that matters.. and we scored 31 pts while giving up 4 possessions, that's crazy. Zero telling what would have happened without those. 

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

My last statement about play  calling. Every team in America tries to game plan on defense to take away what the other team does well. If a team plans to take away your best player is the best option to take that player out. Basically that is what Frank did. Taylor was the best player on the field, and you just let him be a non factor. 

He got 20 touches... 

[Billingsley99]

6 minutes ago, btownqb said:

He got 20 touches... 

25 and you win in my opinion. So if the Cuse zone packs it in around TJD 26 straight 3's are fine with you and you just take TJD out

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

25 and you win in my opinion. So if the Cuse zone packs it in around TJD 26 straight 3's are fine with you and you just take TJD out

No, you don't ever win with 4 turnovers. Period. 

Also... basketball and football are not close to an apples to apples comparison here. 

[btownqb]

What plays should we have ran the ball when we didn't? 

[Billingsley99]

Just now, btownqb said:

No, you don't ever win with 4 turnovers. Period. 

Also... basketball and football are not close to an apples to apples comparison here. 

Ever, I think the Titans beat the Colts this year with a 4 turnover outing. How oh yeah they went with their stud RB. Guess what everyone stacks the box against him. JT would have found holes and I also think you have said so many times how great our line is eventually it would pan out right.

The Colts are one of the worst in the 2nd half of games and that's when you wear your team out. The Colts have blown 3 double digit leads and in each have thrown the ball 40 plus times in each. Since your ok with the play calling it must be fine

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Ever, I think the Titans beat the Colts this year with a 4 turnover outing. How oh yeah they went with their stud RB. Guess what everyone stacks the box against him. JT would have found holes and I also think you have said so many times how great our line is eventually it would pan out right.

The Colts are one of the worst in the 2nd half of games and that's when you wear your team out. The Colts have blown 3 double digit leads and in each have thrown the ball 40 plus times in each. Since your ok with the play calling it must be fine

well.. we scored 31 points and lead the league in points scored since week 4 and are 6-3 in that time frame, so. Yeah, play calling has worked pretty dang well.

Don't turn it over 4 times and you win. We fumbled a punt at our own 15 in the 4th q .... and we want to talk about play calling, absolutely CRAZY. Pittman doesn't compete for a ball.. .which I assume he lost in the lights, Fisher gets whipped on a play/Wentz could have had better pocket awareness and Pascal fumbles in the first at our own 45. 

The OL is great and so is TB DL. Probably have the best run stuffing DT in the league. 

How many of the drives where we turned it over would have ended up with us hammering JT inside the redzone?... PLENTY of them. 

The only time I was upset with play calling all year was against the Titans. Ravens we ran it 26 times vs 35 passes. Carson also had an incredible game that night, so no clue what the problem was then. TItans we weren't even throwing it effectively... yesterday and vs the Ravens we did. 

There are soooooo many other facets to the game than play calling. So much more. 

[Billingsley99]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

well.. we scored 31 points and lead the league in points scored since week 4 and are 6-3 in that time frame, so. Yeah, play calling has worked pretty dang well.

Don't turn it over 4 times and you win. We fumbled a punt at our own 15 in the 4th q .... and we want to talk about play calling, absolutely CRAZY. Pittman doesn't compete for a ball.. .which I assume he lost in the lights, Fisher gets whipped on a play/Wentz could have had better pocket awareness and Pascal fumbles in the first at our own 45. 

The OL is great and so is TB DL. Probably have the best run stuffing DT in the league. 

How many of the drives where we turned it over would have ended up with us hammering JT inside the redzone?... PLENTY of them. 

The only time I was upset with play calling all year was against the Titans. Ravens we ran it 26 times vs 35 passes. Carson also had an incredible game that night, so no clue what the problem was then. TItans we weren't even throwing it effectively... yesterday and vs the Ravens we did. 

There are soooooo many other facets to the game than play calling. So much more. 

Lots of facets of course. I agree we shot ourselves in the foot with turnovers. How many of those drives would end with a JT TD? zero because he wouldn't get the ball. In the 1st half even thought we did not run much it gave opportunity for Wentz to carve the defense up. Once the Colts decided to stop running  TB dropped into coverage more and was not stacking the box like in the first half.

TB DL is very good but it's not elite. When you score 31 you should win for sure. Another thing is to eat up some clock by running the ball. 

Look up the Colts record when they throw it 40 plus times.  Maybe I am just too old score but with a 2 score lead and the best RB in the business you ride that horse to the finish line. 

My biggest issue the past 4 years is that it seems like at halftime adjustments are made by the other defense and too many times I don't see the Colts countering very well

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Lots of facets of course. I agree we shot ourselves in the foot with turnovers. How many of those drives would end with a JT TD? zero because he wouldn't get the ball. In the 1st half even thought we did not run much it gave opportunity for Wentz to carve the defense up. Once the Colts decided to stop running  TB dropped into coverage more and was not stacking the box like in the first half.

TB DL is very good but it's not elite. When you score 31 you should win for sure. Another thing is to eat up some clock by running the ball. 

Look up the Colts record when they throw it 40 plus times.  Maybe I am just too old score but with a 2 score lead and the best RB in the business you ride that horse to the finish line. 

My biggest issue the past 4 years is that it seems like at halftime adjustments are made by the other defense and too many times I don't see the Colts countering very well

adjustments would be a legit gripe,  I could see that for sure. But, the other teams make adjustments to and other teams are very well coached, as well. Looked at the 3 teams we blew leads against and see how well they are coached. SOOO well coached, as are we. 

I'm sorry man.. I can't look past 4 turnovers. Hines should feel like s***. Complete lack of focus. 

I agreed with you on the Titans games play calling. Both drives to start the 3rd q that were turnovers... we had moved the ball very well on those drives. 

[Steubenhoosier]

What we don't know is, how much was play calling, and how much was Wentz checking off at the line of scrimmage? I agree, 26 straight passes, or whatever it was, was too much. At some point, the Bucs' D-line had to just be pinning their ears back and all-out pass rushing, forgoing any thought of having to play gap defense. Regardless of whether they were getting stuffed, there needed to be some running plays sprinkled in to keep the pass rushers honest.

The run/pass imbalance imo, led to one turnover for sure (the strip/fumble recovery). That was the momentum changing play in the game.

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

What we don't know is, how much was play calling, and how much was Wentz checking off at the line of scrimmage? I agree, 26 straight passes, or whatever it was, was too much. At some point, the Bucs' D-line had to just be pinning their ears back and all-out pass rushing, forgoing any thought of having to play gap defense. Regardless of whether they were getting stuffed, there needed to be some running plays sprinkled in to keep the pass rushers honest.

The run/pass imbalance imo, led to one turnover for sure (the strip/fumble recovery). That was the momentum changing play in the game.

They weren't necessarily checked out of... some were RPOs and the pass option was what the defense gave us. 

[Billingsley99]

4 minutes ago, btownqb said:

adjustments would be a legit gripe,  I could see that for sure. But, the other teams make adjustments to and other teams are very well coached, as well. Looked at the 3 teams we blew leads against and see how well they are coached. SOOO well coached, as are we. 

I'm sorry man.. I can't look past 4 turnovers. Hines should feel like s***. Complete lack of focus. 

I agreed with you on the Titans games play calling. Both drives to start the 3rd q that were turnovers... we had moved the ball very well on those drives. 

I agree with almost all of this. I just think JT has to get touches every series. He is special and can take itnto the house at any given time. Both turnovers came in the passing game as well. 

Whether up or down I had not seen the Titans abandon the run with Henry back there. Have to keep them honest. I think Bowles saw that the Colts were dead set on.passing and made them pay. 

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I agree with almost all of this. I just think JT has to get touches every series. He is special and can take itnto the house at any given time. Both turnovers came in the passing game as well. 

Whether up or down I had not seen the Titans abandon the run with Henry back there. Have to keep them honest. I think Bowles saw that the Colts were dead set on.passing and made them pay. 

But we aren't going to survive by simple running JT 35 times a game. It's just not sustainable. You keep bringing up the TItans... well the Titans ran their star RB in the ground so bad that he's out for the season, truthfully, I believe that's a poor example. I also think Tannehill is complete poop. 

We moved the ball passing it. We moved it a lot. You have to execute whatever play you call, and turnovers can happen on any play.... but just constantly listening to "give JT the ball more" is soooo nauseating. It's not realistic and it won't last, if that's what we are going to do. 

Sure.. could a couple of more carries to JT of helped? Yeah, probably so. I'd prefer just not to turn it over and it wouldn't have mattered. 

[Billingsley99]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

But we aren't going to survive by simple running JT 35 times a game. It's just not sustainable. You keep bringing up the TItans... well the Titans ran their star RB in the ground so bad that he's out for the season, truthfully, I believe that's a poor example. I also think Tannehill is complete poop. 

We moved the ball passing it. We moved it a lot. You have to execute whatever play you call, and turnovers can happen on any play.... but just constantly listening to "give JT the ball more" is soooo nauseating. It's not realistic and it won't last, if that's what we are going to do. 

Sure.. could a couple of more carries to JT of helped? Yeah, probably so. I'd prefer just not to turn it over and it wouldn't have mattered. 

That's my whole point if he gets 25 touches I think the Colts win. I am not advocating 35 runs a game but your best player cannot got 4 or 5 series without a touch.