Racial tensions

[KoB2011]

4 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Journalist blinded in one eye during George Floyd protests 

One of many instances during this of journalists falling victim to cops, targeted or otherwise. Not sure what else to expect when they're constantly attacked from on high....

[bluegrassIU]

21 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

It definitely has been. I just think that was uncalled for. 

Why? It is honesty. It is how I would respond. And likely end up in prison for it.

Why is the honesty uncalled for?

[D-BONE]

8 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Journalist blinded in one eye during George Floyd protests 

And a person in Fort Wayne was also  lost an  eye. After being hit with a tear gas canister on Saturday.  It's in the link above

All the more reason to fast track more serious discussion of the deeper issues out in the open ASAP. The social unrest has lots of collateral damage - law enforcement, journalists, protesters, business owners, private citizens, etc. 

[milehiiu]

1 minute ago, D-BONE said:

I would commend all the posters in this thread and throughout this forum. It would be so easy for a post on this topic to devolve into a virtual shouting, name-calling match. I see civil dialogue and debate here. I find it refreshing compared to some of the lack of respect and one sidedness in so many other sites.

Could not agree more.  As I mentioned earlier.  A very difficult topic. During a very difficult time in America.  Differing opinions. Yet members expressing themselves in a civil manner. 

Thread has been a hot topic of interest for me.  And I appreciate all that have shared in it.

Once again... a huge shout out to the mods for not locking or taking this thread down.  I feel it is important. At this time for all of us to share their thoughts and opinions. Again, in an adult and civil manner.

[HoosierFaithful]

7 minutes ago, D-BONE said:

I would commend all the posters in this thread and throughout this forum. It would be so easy for a post on this topic to devolve into a virtual shouting, name-calling match. I see civil dialogue and debate here. I find it refreshing compared to some of the lack of respect and one sidedness in so many other sites.

I agree - this is part of what makes this site wonderful.

On the merits of if a business owner is allowed to use deadly force when a looter breaks into their business - I think the question has been asked, answered, and folks have been able to offer their opinions.  It is a small part of a very large discussion happening in this thread and across America.  In the interest of not monopolizing the conversation on this one issue, let's move on.

It is clear not everyone agrees and the conversation has been remarkably civil.  We've got a very long list of important issues to discuss as a country - let's pick another and make progress.

[Brass Cannon]

The cops are to quick to deploy rubber bullets and tear gas. One person starts something you arrest them. You don’t fire into the crowd.  

[tdhoosier]

23 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

Why? It is honesty. It is how I would respond. And likely end up in prison for it.

Why is the honesty uncalled for?

Really? And you’d justify that reaction given every single circumstance that has played out in the last 2 weeks? 

I know you read the last 4 pages because you’ve responded to a civil discussion that addressed this very issue, and in my opinion, completely undermined it. If it wasn’t your intention then I will apologize, but when I first read that post it it seemed to me that it was made to deliberately get under some people’s skin. 

I know you’ve said your peace and that’s fine. In the future I will enjoy making fun of UK with you and chatting about basketball. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

 

I've had a handful of friends (that i know about) go out and protest in different areas of the country. All 5 of them were involved in protests that were peaceful. 2 of them were showered with tear gas. Both of those protests remained non-violent but the tensions were definitely accelerated. The questions both of my buddies were asking was: what were the police hoping to achieve by using tear gas? Nothing was out of hand, but the preemptive strike put things more at risk to escalate. 

It's a small sample size but I've been reading this happened in many places, all the way back to the first one in Minnesota.

I will agree to the notion that there are idiots on both sides, but the police STILL need to be held to a higher degree of responsibility especially when the protest is a reaction to their systemic problems. There are always going to be people and groups who take advantage of a crisis, but the Police are supposedly trained for this. They are supposed to de-escalate situations, not escalate them. A protest that causes non-violent disruption should not call for tear gas or rubber bullets. 

*Side note I didn't like getting tear gassed when we lost the Championship game vs. Maryland and I still don't like it now. It seems a bit overzealous to me.* 

This does NOT mean all police are bad....far from it, but many bad decisions were made this weekend. In Flint, we saw how these situations can be handled correctly - hearing listening and understanding goes a long way. They might not agree on everything but empathy is being shown. Maybe this can be tried first next time, if it doesn't work then reevaluate options.  

I feel like I can say all this and still support the police, still support the protestors, but not excuse the looters, property damage and groups looking to take advantage of situations for the sole purpose of causing chaos. 

Have to say I am impressed at how Houston has handled the protests here, so far. 

The chief of police and mayor reached out, as I understand before the protests happened here as they were planned in advance, opened up a dialogue, and confirmed they would NOT use rubber bullets or tear gas etc. unless clearly necessary. Then, the chief of police here marched with the protestors. There was virtually no violence, the protests here have been peaceful (so far). 

And George Floyd was raised here. His family is here.https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/houston-protesters-meet-on-downtown-street/285-d23977d5-0af6-4ea9-a652-690469a0de69

Clearly some other cities / police chiefs and departments have handled this situation poorly, including spamming people sitting on their porches with tear gas or rubber bullets. Houston is handling this well. People should be able to protest and the police and city governments should be acting responsibly to allow the protests, assist with their safety, and the safety of the public, without taking police - state like tactics against the public. 

[bluegrassIU]

8 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Really? And you’d justify that reaction given every single circumstance that has played out in the last 2 weeks? 

I know you read the last 4 pages because you’ve responded to a civil discussion that addressed this very issue, and in my opinion, completely undermined it. If it wasn’t your intention then I will apologize, but when I first read that post it it seemed to me that it was made to deliberately get under some people’s skin. 

I know you’ve said your peace and that’s fine. In the future I will enjoy making fun of UK with you and chatting about basketball. 

I never justifird a dang thing! I said it would be my irrational and illegal response. How in Sam's hell is that justifying.

This is why there caan not be a rational discussion sometimes.

I speak honestly. Admit it would be fear based and irrational. Yet you claim I am justifying it and trying to get under peoples skin.

If you take the time to read my posts and clarification, maybe that would help. But please stop misrepresenting what I said.

I explained. I never justified.

[milehiiu]

SIAP

Indianapolis protests: Ex-IU football's Chris Beaty, teen killed amid violence

[IU Scott]

[Brass Cannon]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Nobody is disputing this. 

[Brass Cannon]

A friend from Btown posted a vid of somebody being detained for yelling protests.  Not sure if it was in Bloomington. Haven’t heard back from her.  But one of the building looked familiar. 

[KoB2011]

44 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

And they still beat the hell out of those protesters and killed the leader, protesting for the same thing we are now 50+ years later.... 

[BGleas]

I respect everyone in this community. What we as posters, and especially the mods and forum creators, have worked to build over the years with HSN is why/how we can have this discussion respectfully. This kind of dialogue is possible because of the 10+ years we've all worked to build this great online community. 

WIth that said, this thread is what the powers that be want. This thread is what politicians want. This thread is what the media wants. This thread is what the people resistant to change want. This thread is what the people who don't think there is a problem want. This thread is a distraction from the real issues. Instead of discussing systemic racism, excessive force against people of color, police brutality, racial profiling, etc., and the real issues, we've got 20+ pages on the whether a store owner can shoot and kill a robber. 20+ pages on whether looting is wrong (nobody has said it isn't wrong). 20+ pages on stuff that is distracting from the core root of the issue.

[KoB2011]

People peacefully singing gospel music in Indy were tear gased. There were children and elders and/or handicap people present. 

 

 

[HoosierFaithful]

6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I respect everyone in this community. What we as posters, and especially the mods and forum creators, have worked to build over the years with HSN is why/how we can have this discussion respectfully. This kind of dialogue is possible because of the 10+ years we've all worked to build this great online community. 

WIth that said, this thread is what the powers that be want. This thread is what politicians want. This thread is what the media wants. This thread is what the people resistant to change want. This thread is what the people who don't think there is a problem want. This thread is a distraction from the real issues. Instead of discussing systemic racism, excessive force against people of color, police brutality, racial profiling, etc., and the real issues, we've got 20+ pages on the whether a store owner can shoot and kill a robber. 20+ pages on whether looting is wrong (nobody has said it isn't wrong). 20+ pages on stuff that is distracting from the core root of the issue.

I want to politely push back - I work for a politician, an incumbent Member of Congress.  He doesn't want this.  Very few do.  They are mostly really good people, despite very differing political views.

Otherwise great points.

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I want to politely push back - I work for a politician, an incumbent Member of Congress.  He doesn't want this.  Very few do.  They are mostly really good people, despite very differing political views.

Otherwise great points.

I appreciate the reply/pushback, it absolutely helps further the discussion and helps us learn and share knowledge. Feel free to delete this, as I don't want to jeopardize this thread with politics, but I more meant the political leadership of the country (both parties), not necessarily the rank and file (though I don't know who you work for, they could be leadership). 

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I want to politely push back - I work for a politician, an incumbent Member of Congress.  He doesn't want this.  Very few do.  They are mostly really good people, despite very differing political views.

Otherwise great points.

I’m sure politicians don’t want this.  But they need to step the heck up and start fixing the things that led to this.  I see everyone talking about how to end the protest. Nobody seems interested in ending what has led to the protests. 

[IU Scott]

11 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I respect everyone in this community. What we as posters, and especially the mods and forum creators, have worked to build over the years with HSN is why/how we can have this discussion respectfully. This kind of dialogue is possible because of the 10+ years we've all worked to build this great online community. 

WIth that said, this thread is what the powers that be want. This thread is what politicians want. This thread is what the media wants. This thread is what the people resistant to change want. This thread is what the people who don't think there is a problem want. This thread is a distraction from the real issues. Instead of discussing systemic racism, excessive force against people of color, police brutality, racial profiling, etc., and the real issues, we've got 20+ pages on the whether a store owner can shoot and kill a robber. 20+ pages on whether looting is wrong (nobody has said it isn't wrong). 20+ pages on stuff that is distracting from the core root of the issue.

I don't think anyone on here had said that there is not a major problem and that there does not need to be major changes.  I would also think that the majority of people in charge seed the same thing.

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I don't think anyone on here had said that there is not a major problem and that there does not need to be major changes.  I would also think that the majority of people in charge seed the same thing.

Then why are we talking about whether "Joe Store Owner" can shoot a looter as opposed to the real problems? Part of the problem is the real issue constantly gets put aside while some distraction becomes the main story. 

[bluegrassIU]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Then why are we talking about whether "Joe Store Owner" can shoot a looter as opposed to the real problems? Part of the problem is the real issue constantly gets put aside while some distraction becomes the main story. 

Wag the dog, oldest move in the playbook. 

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Then why are we talking about whether "Joe Store Owner" can shoot a looter as opposed to the real problems? Part of the problem is the real issue constantly gets put aside while some distraction becomes the main story. 

Because it started when some thought it was alright to riot and looting because it would lead to changes.  I know my response was that this kind of thing would not lead to change and there were better ways of getting changes.

[HoosierFaithful]

13 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I appreciate the reply/pushback, it absolutely helps further the discussion and helps us learn and share knowledge. Feel free to delete this, as I don't want to jeopardize this thread with politics, but I more meant the political leadership of the country (both parties), not necessarily the rank and file (though I don't know who you work for, they could be leadership). 

That's a not unfair POV.  

[BGleas]

Just now, IU Scott said:

Because it started when some thought it was alright to riot and looting because it would lead to changes.  I know my response was that this kind of thing would not lead to change and there were better ways of getting changes.

What's your point? We have 20+ pages of discussing looting.