It’s time... Fire Archie Miller

[BADGERVOL]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

My question to the whole fan base including myself

If IU hires a new coach and you don't like it what will you do?  Will you stop watching games or will you still back the team.  I have certain guys I would like to see here but whoever they would hire I will back them like I have every other coach.  I think there would be only a couple where it would make me think about being an IU fan of IU(Calapari, Pitino)

 

I’ll be honest I was crushed when we hired Crean. I was 100% convinced he’d become EXACTLY what he became here. Living in WI it was as obvious as anything he wasn’t the long term answer. But I took a few days and swallowed hard and said “I gotta back him.” Went out and bought my “Crimson and Crean” shirt and just closed my eyes and believed against reason. I backed him.

When we got Archie I was bummed cuz I thought we’d get a big dog. But we didn’t. But I believed in Archie’s resume IF we had to go mid major. And LOVED his personality. So I’ve had no problem backing him.

I owned one of those blue t shirts with the red ties that Sampson wore. Lol! Wore it on game day.  Still have it somewhere.

And I believed in Davis as much as possible. That was easy early on when we got to the championship.

I’ll back our coach like or not and give them a fair shake.

[BADGERVOL]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I actually thought Archie was a good fit for IU.  To me at places like IU that any coach coming in has to know how to deal with the fan base.  A coach who use to play here might know what it takes to get on the fans good side.  They will know they have to do all of these alumni circuit things and kiss our butts.  I also want to see whoever the next coach at IU do more local interviews and TV appearances.  On 1070 in Indy I hear Painter on shows all the time and even Fife is on there but no IU coach.

Excellent points. 👍🏻

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Excellent points. 👍🏻

I was not real happy with the Archie hire because I have wanted Gregg Marshall as the next coach.  Archie wasn't even in my top 5 but once I heard what RMK said about him I turned my view on him.  I have backed him the last 3.5 years but have seen enough to think it is not going to work.

[go_iu_bb]

12 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

My question to the whole fan base including myself

If IU hires a new coach and you don't like it what will you do?  Will you stop watching games or will you still back the team.  I have certain guys I would like to see here but whoever they would hire I will back them like I have every other coach.  I think there would be only a couple where it would make me think about being an IU fan of IU(Calapari, Pitino)

I'd still be a fan and support the team. I didn't like the Davis, Sampson, or Crean hires. I thought the Miller how was decent but certainly wasn't blown away by it. Yet I'm still here. That'll likely be true of the next coach.

At this point, I fully expect to not be ecstatic about the IU coach next year whether it's Miller or another ho-hum hire after a halfassed search. Maybe Dolson will surprise me but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[NotIThatLives]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

JMV got the Manning injury right before it was released he was going to miss the year with a neck surgery.  I think he has been pretty accurate through the years are reporting things.

On this I would suspect he is either guessing or as I heard him say yesterday, "I believe they need to go that route.". His opinion was bringing someone in from the past to bring back what it means.  

[IU878176]

6 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Yep, even though I said I was done with this place, I clearly am as addicted as the rest of you. Go ahead with all the LOLs, and whatever disparaging remarks you wanna make, but I can't let this thread go on without responding.

Couple of things before I get to my main point....Yes, I was very vocally anti-Crean on this board. Didn't happen after year 4 though. Nine years is clearly a fairer time frame to evaluate a coach than four.

Been mentioned multiple times that CAM's recruiting is one of the main issues, especially the lack of bigs. IIRC, until Brunk's surgery, we had 3 kids to play inside. The loss of Joey, right before the season and too late to add another kid, is vastly underestimated by this fanbase. Not that he was a step-back shooter, but he was an inside presence that would have taken enormous pressure off of TJD and Race. They would not have had to guard a Cockburn or Garza or Dickinson or Williams or Johnson, on their own. And btw, they were outsized by each of the players I just mentioned, both in height and bulk. If nothing else, Joey was 5 more fouls to give, minutes to spare the other two, chances to keep them out of foul trouble.

My main point...Archie vowed to get old and stay old. He does not yet have one of his recruits who has attained his senior season yet. So many on here have talked about how important experience is in the college game...let's compare.

My very unscientific study looked at every B1G roster and the 5 kids on each team that played the most average minutes per game. Not the end all/ be all for evaluations, but does show what kind of experience was on the court most for each team.

IU's top 5 includes 1 Senior, 2 Juniors ( one of which is Race who sat out a season) and two Sophomores. The lone SR. was wildly erratic, but did improve during his time in Bloomington, and became a decent shooter. The JR. point guard was heralded by this board when he arrived, but has been a disappointment.

In comparison--

Illinois-2 Seniors and a Junior in top 5

Iowa--2 Seniors and 2 Juniors

Maryland--exactly like us, 1 Senior, 2 Juniors and 2 Sophomores

Michigan--3 Seniors in top 5

Michigan St.--1 Senior and 3 Juniors

Minnesota--1 Senior and 4 Juniors

Nebraska--1 Senior and 3 Juniors

Northwestern--Same as us.

Ohio State--2 Seniors and 2 Juniors

Penn St.--2 Seniors and 3 Juniors

Purdue--3 Juniors and 2 Freshmen... only team without a Senior

Rutgers--2 Seniors and 2 Juniors

Wisconsin--3 Seniors

I guess this doesn't surprise me. In this world of instant gratification, and what have you done for me today, this kind of mentality fits perfectly.

 

Looking at playing time, rather than other posts  that have just listed how many upper classmen are on a roster regardless of their playing time, is relevant. 
That being said, Michigan has three seniors on your list but 2 of the 3 are transfer guards that were just brought in this year because they needed guards. Is that a “get old stay old” philosophy or a coach that addressed a need rather than leave roster spots open.  I would argue the later.  I also disagree with those that imply (not saying you) that our roster is dominated by non-upper classmen, “young” kids that are disadvantaged because they are still learning/growing. Al, Rob, Jerome, Race, TJD and Franklin have all had a ton of practice and game time (far more minutes than many in their class) and I think it is hard to sell them as being “young” at this point.

Lastly....When I see the “instant gratification” posts I have to ask....when is that chip cashed? It’s year 4 and Archie has not had a better than .500 conference season. That is historically bad at IU.  I  submit that we are past the instant gratification stage. As has been mentioned a million times....frikin Crean had us in the sweet 16 in year 4 but now fans are accused of having  “instant gratification” mindsets because they are disappointed in 10th place in year 4??????
6th, 9th, 10th, 10th in the conference is not exactly a dream trajectory.

[Parakeet Jones]

28 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

My question to the whole fan base including myself

If IU hires a new coach and you don't like it what will you do?  Will you stop watching games or will you still back the team.  I have certain guys I would like to see here but whoever they would hire I will back them like I have every other coach.  I think there would be only a couple where it would make me think about being an IU fan of IU(Calapari, Pitino)

I will be continue to back the Hoosiers. As much as I want to see a change, if Archie is back, I’ll be cheering as hard as ever hoping he figures it out. 

[hoosier_exotics]

33 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

I don’t want him because I don’t think he’s good and because I know plenty of stories that personally just don’t like the guy. Don’t mind if others do. That’s fine. I don’t. Don’t want him as our coach just based on resume alone.

He's a d$ck.  I  don't care if he played for IU or not,  it is what it is.  I know many folks that knew him at Manchester, and they're of the same opinion.

I would take Elmer Fudd over Alford 

[cybergates]

I dont care who the coach is if he wins. Archie, Drew, Fife, Alford. Whoever. Just get us going in the right direction and keep it that way. 

[IUFLA]

3 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

Michigan has three seniors on their roster but 2 of the 3 are transfer guards that were just brought in this year because they needed guards.

Michigan has 5 seniors on their roster...Livers, Brooks, and Davis all started and finished at Michigan, and Mike Smith and Chaundee Brown are grad transfers...

[BADGERVOL]

2 minutes ago, hoosier_exotics said:

He's a d$ck.  I  don't care if he played for IU or not,  it is what it is.  I know many folks that knew him at Manchester, and they're of the same opinion.

I would take Elmer Fudd over Alford 

Well my goodness...that’s where most of my contacts were also. My dad worked high up at that university and was there just before he left. My dad has worked with enormous egos in his life in international companies. He’d never seen anything like what Alford had. He was a big Alford fan as a player. There wasn’t a person at Manchester that didn’t think as you said “he was a complete D$&%.” I was told “there’s egos and then there’s people so arrogant you seriously question if something is wrong with them. Like they’re so narcissistic they can’t be even talked to...”

[IU878176]

39 minutes ago, hoosier_exotics said:

He's a d$ck.  I  don't care if he played for IU or not,  it is what it is.  I know many folks that knew him at Manchester, and they're of the same opinion.

I would take Elmer Fudd over Alford 

I know people that were associated with him at Iowa and they would have given him a 1,000 mile piggy back ride through the Mojave desert to get him out of Iowa. I don’t know anyone associated with UCLA but everything you read says they also could not wait to get him out. 0/2 in power 5 jobs so far.

PS....one of my favorite players ever at IU. Just not excited about him as our coach.

[IUFLA]

46 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

So you think it’s impossible because the fan bases whining is dictating Archie’s recruiting strategy?

A lot of things dictate recruiting strategy. Fan perception is a part of it, yeah. 

Indiana high schools  produce a lot quality kids. If Archie doesn't go after and get kids like Romeo Langford and TJD the fanbase is going to wonder why. We saw that with Kaufman just this year. Archie forsakes kids like those for Wisconsin's strategy and it won't be popular...

Part of the reason Crean got canned was his lack of getting good recruits from in state...

[IU878176]

16 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Michigan has 5 seniors on their roster...Livers, Brooks, and Davis all started and finished at Michigan, and Mike Smith and Chaundee Brown are grad transfers...

I was referring to his post that had a list of players with the most playing time on the roster. There were three Michigan seniors on that list.
4 of their 6 leading scorers have only been with the program 1 or 2 years albeit 2 of them are older as they are grad transfers.

 

[BADGERVOL]

4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

A lot of things dictate recruiting strategy. Fan perception is a part of it, yeah. 

Indiana high schools  produce a lot quality kids. If Archie doesn't go after and get kids like Romeo Langford and TJD the fanbase is going to wonder why. We saw that with Kaufman just this year. Archie forsakes kids like those for Wisconsin's strategy and it won't be popular...

Part of the reason Crean got canned was his lack of getting good recruits from in state...

WI tried to lock down the state on just about any and every high level recruit they can. They don’t avoid talent in WI, MN, Or anywhere else they can. They just don’t land them as often because they go elsewhere. But if you look at their history they have a steady diet of 4 star guys and an occasional 5 star. 
 

But if it has two legs and 5 stars in state they try to land it. 

[DC2345]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

JMV got the Manning injury right before it was released he was going to miss the year with a neck surgery.  I think he has been pretty accurate through the years are reporting things.

He doesn’t know anything about IU. He’s just guessing. Plus he is buddies with Fife so I’m sure he’d be pulling for him. 

[IU Scott]

This is what I know and that is no matter who the next coach is this is what I want to see.

1) An offense that is free flowing and don't have you best players standing in the corner

2) I want ball and player movement over just dribbling

3) I want plenty of shooters on the team and that doesn't just mean from 3 but our big's that can step out and shoot outside the lane.

4) a coach that can teach better free throw shooting

5) I want a coach who will switch defenses including playing some zone and even some pressing.

6) On man to man defense I want in your face defense and play the passing lanes.  i just want to see us get some easy baskets off of our defense.

[IU878176]

4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

A lot of things dictate recruiting strategy. Fan perception is a part of it, yeah. 

Indiana high schools  produce a lot quality kids. If Archie doesn't go after and get kids like Romeo Langford and TJD the fanbase is going to wonder why. We saw that with Kaufman just this year. Archie forsakes kids like those for Wisconsin's strategy and it won't be popular...

Part of the reason Crean got canned was his lack of getting good recruits from in state...

I don’t think Archie going after TJD and Romeo had anything to do with meeting fans expectations. When you are the coach of THE state school of course you go after the in-state Romeos of the world. Since there are very few Romeo’s taking up roster spots that does not preclude a coach, if that coach is so inclined, from having a Wisconsin get old stay old philosophy.

[BADGERVOL]

Seems every time we go searching there’s a pocket of IU people saying “probably going to be Alford” and from what I’ve read the guy’s never even been given a feeler for any of these so far. Not even a call. To the point it’s gotten out Alford is pissed he hasn’t gotten any gauge for interest. 

[BADGERVOL]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

This is what I know and that is no matter who the next coach is this is what I want to see.

1) An offense that is free flowing and don't have you best players standing in the corner

2) I want ball and player movement over just dribbling

3) I want plenty of shooters on the team and that doesn't just mean from 3 but our big's that can step out and shoot outside the lane.

4) a coach that can teach better free throw shooting

5) I want a coach who will switch defenses including playing some zone and even some pressing.

6) On man to man defense I want in your face defense and play the passing lanes.  i just want to see us get some easy baskets off of our defense.

YES DEAR GOD PLEASE

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

WI tried to lock down the state on just about any and every high level recruit they can. They don’t avoid talent in WI, MN, Or anywhere else they can. They just don’t land them as often because they go elsewhere. But if you look at their history they have a steady diet of 4 star guys and an occasional 5 star. 
 

But if it has two legs and 5 stars in state they try to land it. 

Lately the state of Minnesota has had a lot of 5 star recruits and Minnesota can't get them to stay.  If they could they would have been a great team

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, BADGERVOL said:

Seems every time we go searching there’s a pocket of IU people saying “probably going to be Alford” and from what I’ve read the guy’s never even been given a feeler for any of these so far. Not even a call. To the point it’s gotten out Alford is pissed he hasn’t gotten any gauge for interest. 

I saw Alford on the aJ podcast and he said he has never been contacted once for the job.

[DC2345]

1 hour ago, Shapopojoe said:

And Lewis doesn’t?? Nebraska....UCLA assistant even after Alford left.....sorry but he hasn’t shown how terrible of a head coach he is by crapping over a ...well....community college team ..see IUFW under fife

Getting a head coaching job of a D1 program at 25 years old and struggling doesn’t mean you’re a bad coach. He just wasn’t ready at that time. His teams did progress every single year under him. He also took over in the 5th year of the IPFW program’s existence and they’d never won more than 10 games prior to Fife taking over. So in that context I don’t think that show’s he’s a terrible coach. Most people would never sniff being a head coach of a high school at 25 let alone a D1 program. 

[IU Scott]

Also in recruiting I want to recruit guys who wins titles in high school.  I think it is good to get guys who know how to win big before getting here.

[BADGERVOL]

8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I saw Alford on the aJ podcast and he said he has never been contacted once for the job.

That’s says all you need to know...