MrsStoller Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronkonagurski Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 3 hours ago, NWOHoosier said: I’m in the camp that Woodson should be gone, not because of this years record, but because of the terrible trajectory of the program. The question I have for those of you who are in contact with lots of IU fans on a daily basis (I am not): How does the non-message board crowd generally feel about the situation? My feeling is a change is a no brainer but am I just in a message board echo chamber? The fans I talk to in-person don't believe in Woodson anymore but they also fear firing him too soon will make it impossible to find a proper replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUJoe Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 4 minutes ago, MrsStoller said: I’m from Indy but moved to the NE Indiana/Fort Wayne area several years ago. I saw nothing but a 75-80% empty arena when the Mad Ants would play, and that’s being generous. No offense, but I didn’t get the sense they were valued very much up here. Now if we talk hockey, if the Komets ever left, that would be a major kick in the shin to FW. No G League team draws many fans. It’s not a great product. That being said, it was very well supported by some pretty influential people up here. The local community put a lot more effort into it than the Pacers did. And you don’t build goodwill by taking a community asset away from the second biggest city in the state just because you want to cry about the government not building you a downtown arena that you wouldn’t have to share with the hockey team. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fkfootball Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 2 minutes ago, bronkonagurski said: The fans I talk to in-person don't believe in Woodson anymore but they also fear firing him too soon will make it impossible to find a proper replacement. Josh Schertz makes 250K a year. Would he turn down a 4 million dollar raise? 😆 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 1 minute ago, MrsStoller said: Interesting choice. Wonder if they got turned down by the top candidates or if they actually wanted Diebler. That’s putting a lot of faith in a 8 game resume. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsStoller Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 (edited) 12 minutes ago, IUJoe said: No G League team draws many fans. It’s not a great product. That being said, it was very well supported by some pretty influential people up here. The local community put a lot more effort into it than the Pacers did. And you don’t build goodwill by taking a community asset away from the second biggest city in the state just because you want to cry about the government not building you a downtown arena that you wouldn’t have to share with the hockey team. Good points. Did Noblesville assist in building the new venue the Mad Ants are playing in? I keep up somewhat with Hamilton County news but don’t remember about this. edit to add: found this good article from Indiana Business Insider - https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/articles/noblesville-to-build-36m-arena-to-woo-pacers-mad-ants-from-fort-wayne Edited March 17 by MrsStoller 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 I don't want to come across as a Woodson defender, I'm not - if I were in charge, I would do everything I could to hire Bruce Pearl, but I don't understand why people think they know what offensive system Woody wants to run. He inherited an all-American big man, and no guards worth playing. He went out and got an aggressive, up-tempo pg and a shooter with size. Neither of those guys turned into guys that can win the conference, but that's who he sought out. That was before the age of the transfer, so options were limited. Was he supposed to run an offense that featured guards that were barely playing at a power 5 level or go through his superstar? That doesn't tell me anything about how he wants to play, it just tells me he's smart enough to play to a strength. His biggest recruits have been a big pg who could create shots, and, before he decommitted, a shooter with size. His other big win was a big man who fell in his lap - was he supposed to turn that down? He tried to get scorers from the wing and guard, he just failed. I'm all for criticizing him for that, but I don't get how you can judge his system. His decision this year was to get the ball to his NBA big man rather than what? Have Leal and Galloway rain 10 3's a game? Have X and Gunn create off the dribble? That's not going to work. Again, want to criticize him for not having better options, I think you should, but I don't see how we can think we know what next year's offense will look like. Taking a quick look around the league, I see 9 teams, probably 10 (I don't know Illinois well enough to judge some of their guys) that have a starting pg that is unquestionably better than X. And that's for the half the games X played. For the other half, we had the worst pg in the league. It's hard to win with that. It's even harder to do anything other than throw the ball in the paint. Again, you want to criticize Woody for putting us in that situation? Great, as do I, but, if you want to say based on that, you know what we're going to do on offense next year? I don't see any logic in that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 3 hours ago, MrsStoller said: I will never forget the night they swept the Atlanta Hawks in the playoffs and shrugged off the yoke of never winning a playoff series. People running out from MSA, in pure joy, screaming and yelling on the streets. It was great! There first playoff win was against the Magic, I was at that game 3 and the sweep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 7 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: I don't want to come across as a Woodson defender, I'm not - if I were in charge, I would do everything I could to hire Bruce Pearl, but I don't understand why people think they know what offensive system Woody wants to run. He inherited an all-American big man, and no guards worth playing. He went out and got an aggressive, up-tempo pg and a shooter with size. Neither of those guys turned into guys that can win the conference, but that's who he sought out. That was before the age of the transfer, so options were limited. Was he supposed to run an offense that featured guards that were barely playing at a power 5 level or go through his superstar? That doesn't tell me anything about how he wants to play, it just tells me he's smart enough to play to a strength. His biggest recruits have been a big pg who could create shots, and, before he decommitted, a shooter with size. His other big win was a big man who fell in his lap - was he supposed to turn that down? He tried to get scorers from the wing and guard, he just failed. I'm all for criticizing him for that, but I don't get how you can judge his system. His decision this year was to get the ball to his NBA big man rather than what? Have Leal and Galloway rain 10 3's a game? Have X and Gunn create off the dribble? That's not going to work. Again, want to criticize him for not having better options, I think you should, but I don't see how we can think we know what next year's offense will look like. Taking a quick look around the league, I see 9 teams, probably 10 (I don't know Illinois well enough to judge some of their guys) that have a starting pg that is unquestionably better than X. And that's for the half the games X played. For the other half, we had the worst pg in the league. It's hard to win with that. It's even harder to do anything other than throw the ball in the paint. Again, you want to criticize Woody for putting us in that situation? Great, as do I, but, if you want to say based on that, you know what we're going to do on offense next year? I don't see any logic in that. I feel pretty confident on what Woodson wants to run since he’s run the exact same system for all 3 years, and the fact that Mike Woodson himself said he was happy with the way the offense was run, the team just needed to make more shots. Even with getting Ware last year, he could’ve gone for different transfers to run a different system instead of getting Sparks and Walker. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 24 minutes ago, MrsStoller said: I wonder if their players went to the AD and said they would all leave if they didn't hire him. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 3 minutes ago, Kdug said: I feel pretty confident on what Woodson wants to run since he’s run the exact same system for all 3 years, and the fact that Mike Woodson himself said he was happy with the way the offense was run, the team just needed to make more shots. Even with getting Ware last year, he could’ve gone for different transfers to run a different system instead of getting Sparks and Walker. Again, what system do you run with the guards/wing we have had? Do you not play through the guys who are your best offensive players by a large margin? What is he supposed to say in his press conference? "I don't want to play this way, but my guys suck"? To me, his comments have always indicated that he was going to run that system because with that roster, it's all he sees fit to do. I don't see anything in his comments to suggest he would run that system with Golden State, or even Nebraska, but he will run it with this year's IU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDPU95 Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 (edited) 3 hours ago, HoosierDom said: I don't want to come across as a Woodson defender, I'm not - if I were in charge, I would do everything I could to hire Bruce Pearl, but I don't understand why people think they know what offensive system Woody wants to run. He inherited an all-American big man, and no guards worth playing. He went out and got an aggressive, up-tempo pg and a shooter with size. Neither of those guys turned into guys that can win the conference, but that's who he sought out. That was before the age of the transfer, so options were limited. Was he supposed to run an offense that featured guards that were barely playing at a power 5 level or go through his superstar? That doesn't tell me anything about how he wants to play, it just tells me he's smart enough to play to a strength. His biggest recruits have been a big pg who could create shots, and, before he decommitted, a shooter with size. His other big win was a big man who fell in his lap - was he supposed to turn that down? He tried to get scorers from the wing and guard, he just failed. I'm all for criticizing him for that, but I don't get how you can judge his system. His decision this year was to get the ball to his NBA big man rather than what? Have Leal and Galloway rain 10 3's a game? Have X and Gunn create off the dribble? That's not going to work. Again, want to criticize him for not having better options, I think you should, but I don't see how we can think we know what next year's offense will look like. Taking a quick look around the league, I see 9 teams, probably 10 (I don't know Illinois well enough to judge some of their guys) that have a starting pg that is unquestionably better than X. And that's for the half the games X played. For the other half, we had the worst pg in the league. It's hard to win with that. It's even harder to do anything other than throw the ball in the paint. Again, you want to criticize Woody for putting us in that situation? Great, as do I, but, if you want to say based on that, you know what we're going to do on offense next year? I don't see any logic in that. I know you're not defending him and agree that he tried to run a system with what he had BUT.... If he knew he didn't have what he needed, why was there an open scholarship? Even if you fill it with a guard that wasn't quite big ten ready you at minimum have a red-shirt player with a year of practice in "the system". Instead, that scholarship sat empty and we have 0 incoming recruits. I would love to hear QBuck's take on how that's acceptable and not justification for making a change. I started this season on the "hope he figures it out" side of the fence but that hope went away quickly and it became obvious that he won't/can't and a change is needed. Edited March 17 by HoosierDPU95 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 23 minutes ago, IUJoe said: No G League team draws many fans. It’s not a great product. That being said, it was very well supported by some pretty influential people up here. The local community put a lot more effort into it than the Pacers did. And you don’t build goodwill by taking a community asset away from the second biggest city in the state just because you want to cry about the government not building you a downtown arena that you wouldn’t have to share with the hockey team. They did it so it is easier to bring players up to the Pacers if they are already in the same city. Guys like Walker and Shepard has played for the G league during the afternoon and the Pacers that night 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 Just now, HoosierDPU95 said: I know you're not defending him and agree that he tried to run a system with what he had BUT.... If he knew he didn't have what he needed, why was there an open scholarship? Even if you fill it with a gaurd that wasn't quite big ten ready you at minimum have a red-shirt player with a year of practice in "the system". Instead, that scholarship sat empty and we have 0 incoming recruits. I would love to hear QBuck's take on how that's acceptable and not justification for making a change. I started this season on the "hope he figures it out" side of the fence but that hope went away quickly and it became obvious that he won't/can't and a change is needed. I agree, he should have filled that spot. I don't agree that red shirting a guy makes any sense. If you're not good enough to help this year's team, why would we think you will ever be good enough to play at this level? Red shirting for non-medical reasons never happened often, and it's going to happen even less in the age of transfers. As I remember it, he talked a lot last off-season about looking for a guy that would move the needle (I think that was his phrase) - clearly be an upgrade over the guys already on the roster. He struck out on them. I certainly would have just brought a guy in just in the hope he would out-compete our current guys, and Woodson didn't do that. I don't get it, but it's not like he didn't want to upgrade - he tried and failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 1 minute ago, HoosierDom said: Again, what system do you run with the guards/wing we have had? Do you not play through the guys who are your best offensive players by a large margin? What is he supposed to say in his press conference? "I don't want to play this way, but my guys suck"? To me, his comments have always indicated that he was going to run that system because with that roster, it's all he sees fit to do. I don't see anything in his comments to suggest he would run that system with Golden State, or even Nebraska, but he will run it with this year's IU. More high ball screens, pick and pop with Ware (who shot 42% from 3), or literally anything so teams couldn’t just pack the paint. Last year we were one of the best 3 point shooting teams in the country, but we still were in the bottom 10 in 3 point attempts. So it clearly doesn’t matter who we have on the wings, Woodson doesn’t value 3 pointers and wants to pound it inside at all cost. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 Just now, Kdug said: More high ball screens, pick and pop with Ware (who shot 42% from 3), or literally anything so teams couldn’t just pack the paint. Last year we were one of the best 3 point shooting teams in the country, but we still were in the bottom 10 in 3 point attempts. So it clearly doesn’t matter who we have on the wings, Woodson doesn’t value 3 pointers and wants to pound it inside at all cost. Why do you think we had a good percentage last year? Do you think Galloway and X were among the top shooters in the country? To me it's obvious that we had good numbers because we didn't shoot many. We took the open ones and passed up the rest. Most of the open ones were open because teams had to pack the paint against TJD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 7 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: I agree, he should have filled that spot. I don't agree that red shirting a guy makes any sense. If you're not good enough to help this year's team, why would we think you will ever be good enough to play at this level? Red shirting for non-medical reasons never happened often, and it's going to happen even less in the age of transfers. As I remember it, he talked a lot last off-season about looking for a guy that would move the needle (I think that was his phrase) - clearly be an upgrade over the guys already on the roster. He struck out on them. I certainly would have just brought a guy in just in the hope he would out-compete our current guys, and Woodson didn't do that. I don't get it, but it's not like he didn't want to upgrade - he tried and failed. Purdue has red shirted some players lately and it has worked out. I know it was a long time ago but Brian Evans was red shirted then went on to be the big ten player of the year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 (edited) 7 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: Why do you think we had a good percentage last year? Do you think Galloway and X were among the top shooters in the country? To me it's obvious that we had good numbers because we didn't shoot many. We took the open ones and passed up the rest. Most of the open ones were open because teams had to pack the paint against TJD. We’ll just agree to disagree. When I see a coach run the exact same system 3 years in a row with different personnel, I take that as the style he wants to play. It doesn’t take more time than that to establish a system. There are actions and words for determining what a coach wants to do. Both indicate that Woodson is happy with the style of play. Recruits obviously are seeing and hearing the same thing considering all the wings, including McNeally, that opted to go elsewhere. To add - if you need one of the top shooters in the country to be effective from the perimeter, then that coach clearly doesn’t understand modern basketball. Edited March 17 by Kdug 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUJoe Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 15 minutes ago, IU Scott said: They did it so it is easier to bring players up to the Pacers if they are already in the same city. Guys like Walker and Shepard has played for the G league during the afternoon and the Pacers that night No, they did it because they didn’t get their government subsidized arena in Fort Wayne. Everybody involved with the team in Fort Wayne knows that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatShot Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 44 minutes ago, bronkonagurski said: The fans I talk to in-person don't believe in Woodson anymore but they also fear firing him too soon will make it impossible to find a proper replacement. It amazes me how many of our fans have been conditioned to think this way. I never hear this from any other fanbase. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUJoe Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 22 minutes ago, IU Scott said: They did it so it is easier to bring players up to the Pacers if they are already in the same city. Guys like Walker and Shepard has played for the G league during the afternoon and the Pacers that night I noticed you laughed at my response to this comment. Scott, the Pacers were pushing for a downtown arena in Fort Wayne for several years. The distance between Fort Wayne and Indianapolis clearly wasn’t a problem while they were pushing for an arena here. It only became a problem when FW wouldn’t build them an arena. Surely you can understand that, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 4 minutes ago, IUJoe said: I noticed you laughed at my response to this comment. Scott, the Pacers were pushing for a downtown arena in Fort Wayne for several years. The distance between Fort Wayne and Indianapolis clearly wasn’t a problem while they were pushing for an arena here. It only became a problem when FW wouldn’t build them an arena. Surely you can understand that, right? Most of the G league teams are being moved to the same city as their apparent club, that is what I understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 13 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: I agree, he should have filled that spot. I don't agree that red shirting a guy makes any sense. If you're not good enough to help this year's team, why would we think you will ever be good enough to play at this level? Red shirting for non-medical reasons never happened often, and it's going to happen even less in the age of transfers. As I remember it, he talked a lot last off-season about looking for a guy that would move the needle (I think that was his phrase) - clearly be an upgrade over the guys already on the roster. He struck out on them. I certainly would have just brought a guy in just in the hope he would out-compete our current guys, and Woodson didn't do that. I don't get it, but it's not like he didn't want to upgrade - he tried and failed. Waddel (both) Rowinski RIP Cardinal Eifert Wheeler Sasha Newman TKR Probably easier for CMW to just portal players instead of evaluate & develop marginal talent Purdue, Bucky, Fran, NW, Lions ain’t getting 5stars so it’s get old & stay old or portal lottery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUJoe Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 Just now, IU Scott said: Most of the G league teams are being moved to the same city as their apparent club, that is what I understand. lol. Ok. I’ll note not to confuse you with facts in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 17 Report Share Posted March 17 1 minute ago, IUJoe said: lol. Ok. I’ll note not to confuse you with facts in the future. What did I say that wasn't a fact 1) they moved to he closer to Indy 2) most G league teams are moving to the apparent teams city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.