Wow. Just WOW !

[milehiiu]

 Has Archie Miller improved Indiana basketball? Nope.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Stupid article.  We were so good last season that a mediocre Michigan team blasted us by 30 and we lost to a bad GT team in the first round of the NIT.  And that was with 2 burger boys on the roster.  They are both gone.

[Montana Hoosier]

I hate to say it Mile, but what the guy wrote is how I feel completely. The criticism is spot on in my opinion, I’m really at a loss for words with this team.

[FW_Hoosier]

May not be able to lay the blame on Archie, but it is an undeniable fact that this team has not improved at all since last season.

[Proud2BAHoosier]

Impressed that the writer actually posted many points of the game in his article, instead of just spouting stuff. But as many of us already have said in other threads, let's get TCs guys outta here and see what CAM does with HIS players.

[milehiiu]

I was a Crean supporter.  And wish him no ill will.  However, even for me, I felt it was time for him to move on.  What's that saying ? :  Keep doing the same thing and expect different results.... or something to that effect.  LOL

Crean inherited a hot mess.  Yet at least most IU fans understood, and gave him a honey moon.

Miller did not inherit the hot mess that Crean did.  Yet.... half way through his first season, with players he did not recruit..... we get articles like this ?   Honestly think some media people do this, just to bring attention to themselves..... which I did.  I sat on this for a day.  However, I just could not contain my anger any longer. 

______________________________

Give Archie a break.  And some of his OWN players, before we say he has not improved this program !!

[milehiiu]

6 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

Impressed that the writer actually posted many points of the game in his article, instead of just spouting stuff. But as many of us already have said in other threads, let's get TCs guys outta here and see what CAM does with HIS players.

You posted this, as I was typing my reply.  As you can see.... I could not agree more.

[hessm70]

Our local high school has a coach that caters to his teams strengths regardless of their talent whether they be height, speed, strength or whatever. He tends to have his team in the top ten every year out of a little school.  My point is he inherits players.

This year I didn’t expect miracles. I did expect less turnovers and better defense.  I watched the ISU game (worst game I have ever witnessed in Assembly Hall- 15yr season ticket holder) and was dismayed at the lack of effort from the team and the fact that the coach did nothing to change the outcome. 

After all that being said,  chalk this year up and hope that when Archie gets “his” players it improves.

 

[jefftheref]

I think the writer needs to get a life. You can't fix stupid and unfortunately we have some not so smart players. Miller should not have to do a thing with 4 and 5 year players. They should already know what they need to know. This team would be winless if Crean was the coach. 

[milehiiu]

1 minute ago, hessm70 said:

Our local high school has a coach that caters to his teams strengths regardless of their talent whether they be height, speed, strength or whatever. He tends to have his team in the top ten every year out of a little school.

This year I didn’t expect miracles. I did expect less turnovers and better defense.  I watched the ISU game (worst game I have ever witnessed in Assembly Hall- 15yr season ticket holder) and was dismayed at the lack of effort from the team and the fact that the coach did nothing to change the outcome. 

After all that being said,  chalk this year up and hope that when Archie gets “his” players it improves.

 

Hey.  You are the second member who joined in September.  And made their first post to HSN 3.0, today.  Welcome.  And as I said to the other member.... keep on posting !

[jefftheref]

9 minutes ago, hessm70 said:

Our local high school has a coach that caters to his teams strengths regardless of their talent whether they be height, speed, strength or whatever. He tends to have his team in the top ten every year out of a little school.  My point is he inherits players.

This year I didn’t expect miracles. I did expect less turnovers and better defense.  I watched the ISU game (worst game I have ever witnessed in Assembly Hall- 15yr season ticket holder) and was dismayed at the lack of effort from the team and the fact that the coach did nothing to change the outcome. 

After all that being said,  chalk this year up and hope that when Archie gets “his” players it improves.

 

One of the problems MIller has is what are this teams strengths? Shooting, defense, hustle, mental toughness, communication, enthusiasm or taking care of the ball. , 

[BobSaccamanno]

Sorry, but Tom Davis is a small town hack of a writer.  The grammar is ok but his writing is so uninspired.  I can’t take mediocre writers seriously.  

[FW_Hoosier]

18 minutes ago, jefftheref said:

I think the writer needs to get a life. You can't fix stupid and unfortunately we have some not so smart players. Miller should not have to do a thing with 4 and 5 year players. They should already know what they need to know. This team would be winless if Crean was the coach. 

I’ve been sitting on this hot take for a little while, so here goes: if Crean was still the coach, this team would have exactly the same record it does now, and maybe a game or two better.  Not to say that Crean is a better coach than Archie (he’s not), but this team is just not adapting to Archie’s style, and Archie seems to be refusing to adapt his style to fit this team.  I think we’d be seeing better play from our guards if the old staff was still here.  I’m still taking Archie over Crean every day of the week and twice on Sundays, but that’s how I see it currently.

[INDenizen]

I think what makes our situation feel worse is that you have Butler nearby with a new coach and they seem to be thriving plus OSU in the B1G is doing well with their new coach. No honeymoon time was needed. Yet here we sit stuck in the mud for some reason. I hope beyond anything else that it is just the combination of player-personnel we have. No ill-will towards any of them, we just do not have the leadership nor difference makers to, well, make a difference.

(Disclaimer: I have not followed Butler or OSU this year at all. I'm just going off of early perception)

(Disclaimer #2: I've been solid on the Archie train. I do wish that his tough-edged personality would've been able to rub off a little more by now. Losing that game to Wisky the other night like we did was pretty devastating to me. I expected more from players and coaches)

[Mac]

"In fact, you could make the argument that the Hoosiers have regressed since Tom Crean was fired."

You could also make the argument that the Moon landings were fake.

CAM is bringing a different style to the program. I like the style. It's gonna take time. We'll see.

 

 

[BobSaccamanno]

From the article, just as a quick example:

“However, the bigger picture is that the Indiana players, whom Miller was publicly critical of recently, and with good reason, don’t play particularly hard, well or smart, and this, after having been worked with by this new coaching staff for nine months.”

If an associate brought me a crap sentence like that, I’d get the red pen out and be all over his or her ass.  It’s ineffective and amateurish writing.  There are probably three different ideas he’s trying to grapple with in one sentence.  It flows poorly and he loses advocacy points, since he’s trying to argue a position.  He puts the terms “hard,” “well,” and “smart” on the same plane when “hard” and “smart” are subsets of “well.”  There’s a contraction that should be a no-no here.  You throw in the passive clause. You should only write passively if there is reason or advantage to so.  Here, it is just shoddy.  

That’s one sentence.  It’s painful to read his work.  This isn’t exactly Ben Bradlee advising Bob Woodward.  

He is not writing on a message board.  He’s supposed to be the editor of a small town newspaper.  When an outlet purports to be legitimate and you see crap like this, you can then throw out any ideas he’s trying to convey.  His credibility is diminished.  And if he’s in charge, you have to question the quality of the underlings who would have to scramble to overcome the lack of proper mentorship in the organization.   

[milehiiu]

We've most likely given this hack the most clicks he has ever gotten..  All thanks to me.  I beg your pardon.

[5fouls]

Here's what I'm having trouble getting my arms around.  Archie is sticking to his guns regarding the style of play, but the players getting the majority of minutes are not even going to be around once Archie gets his players.  It's almost like he's forcing the issue for the benefit of Al Durham and no one else.  Smith and Moore don't get minutes.  Davis and Green do not seem willing to adapt, and it would not surprise me to see them both leave.  We get one more year out of Morgan and McRoberts, so there is some benefit there, but it's not long term.  And, Newkirk, Johnson, Hartman, and McSwain are seniors.  

Given the structure of the roster, it makes some sense to me to allow Newkirk and Johnson a little more flexibility to play the way they are more comfortable if it helps us win.  You can focus on fully implementing your system next season when you have 5-6 guys you recruited at your disposal.   If your'e going to stick to your guns this season, then at least give Smith, Moore, and even Durham more time so it benefits the team in the future.  Giving the seniors the majority of minutes does not accomplish that.  

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Here's what I'm having trouble getting my arms around.  Archie is sticking to his guns regarding the style of play, but the players getting the majority of minutes are not even going to be around once Archie gets his players.  It's almost like he's forcing the issue for the benefit of Al Durham and no one else.  Smith and Moore don't get minutes.  Davis and Green do not seem willing to adapt, and it would not surprise me to see them both leave.  We get one more year out of Morgan and McRoberts, so there is some benefit there, but it's not long term.  And, Newkirk, Johnson, Hartman, and McSwain are seniors.  

Given the structure of the roster, it makes some sense to me to allow Newkirk and Johnson a little more flexibility to play the way they are more comfortable if it helps us win.  You can focus on fully implementing your system next season when you have 5-6 guys you recruited at your disposal.   If your'e going to stick to your guns this season, then at least give Smith, Moore, and even Durham more time so it benefits the team in the future.  Giving the seniors the majority of minutes does not accomplish that.  

What makes you think Newkirk and Johnson bring more wins in another style? What other style? They were terrible in Crean’s system last year when they actually had more talent around them. 

 

[BGleas]

^^^^I do agree though that he’s got to find a way to implement his system, but free the guys up to just play ball instead of overthinking everything. The team does look uptight and like they’re not having fun, and that’s a problem that needs to be fixed. 

[5fouls]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

What makes you think Newkirk and Johnson bring more wins in another style? What other style? They were terrible in Crean’s system last year when they actually had more talent around them. 

 

Because it sure isn't working the way we're doing it.  But, I go back to the concept that, if we're going to play this way come hell or high water, why are we playing the guys we're playing?  Is Indiana gaining anything by playing Freddie McSwain more than Justin Smith?  Is Indiana gaining anything by playing Josh Newkirk more than Al Durham?  Regardless of the reason, If De'ron Davis is only going to play 10 minutes, why isn't Clifton Moore getting some of those minutes De'Ron is on the bench?  I can't reconcile the concept of sticking to your guns on style, while playing guys that aren't going to carry forward that experience beyond the first round exit in the BTT.

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

Because it sure isn't working the way we're doing it.  But, I go back to the concept that, if we're going to play this way come hell or high water, why are we playing the guys we're playing?  Is Indiana gaining anything by playing Freddie McSwain more than Justin Smith?  Is Indiana gaining anything by playing Josh Newkirk more than Al Durham?  Regardless of the reason, If De'ron Davis is only going to play 10 minutes, why isn't Clifton Moore getting some of those minutes De'Ron is on the bench?  I can't reconcile the concept of sticking to your guns on style, while playing guys that aren't going to carry forward that experience beyond the first round exit in the BTT.

Because it’s way too early to just give up on the season, and benching Newkirk for Durham (though Durham started about 7 or so games and didn’t do much with the opp) and giving Moore big minutes would do that. As frustrating as guys like Newkirk and RoJo are, they still give the best chance to win at this point. I’m with you on Smith though, that’s a kid that should be playing more. With his length and athleticism, he could be helping this team, he just needs confidence. I thought he played well the last couple games in the first half, and then Archie just never came back to him. A little puzzling. 

[5fouls]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Because it’s way too early to just give up on the season, and benching Newkirk for Durham (though Durham started about 7 or so games and didn’t do much with the opp) and giving Moore big minutes would do that. As frustrating as guys like Newkirk and RoJo are, they still give the best chance to win at this point. I’m with you on Smith though, that’s a kid that should be playing more. With his length and athleticism, he could be helping this team, he just needs confidence. I thought he played well the last couple games in the first half, and then Archie just never came back to him. A little puzzling. 

I guess we differ on whether there is still hope for the season.  We can't win road games, and regardless of whether we somehow finish top 5 in conference, those 2 bad losses will haunt us when at-large bids are given out.  And, we're certainly not capable of winning the BTT with Michigan State and Purdue being as good as they are. 

[BGleas]

Just now, 5fouls said:

I guess we differ on whether there is still hope for the season.  We can't win road games, and regardless of whether we somehow finish top 5 in conference, those 2 bad losses will haunt us when at-large bids are given out.  And, we're certainly not capable of winning the BTT with Michigan State and Purdue being as good as they are. 

We don’t differ on that, I think this team is bad. I’m saying Archie can’t give up the season 15 games, and 3 Big Ten games, into his career. That’s just a bad look, and what does that say to a guy like Morgan who could be a really key piece on an improved team next year. 

[5fouls]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

We don’t differ on that, I think this team is bad. I’m saying Archie can’t give up the season 15 games, and 3 Big Ten games, into his career. That’s just a bad look, and what does that say to a guy like Morgan who could be a really key piece on an improved team next year. 

I think Archie could have a frank one on one conversation with Juwan and explain to him that Clifton, Justin, and Al are getting extended PT in preparation for next year.  Juwan is smart enough, and cares enough about winning, to understand how that benefits him.