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btownqb posted Jon Rothstein's tweet that 17 of the 20 starters on the final 4 teams had played with their them the previous year.

It is likely that this will be so for at least 4 of IU's 5 starters.  

Furthermore, IU will be a very experienced team next year.  X, Race, and Kopp all have four years of college ball under their belt already.  TJD has 3 years and Leal, Galloway, and Geronimo have 2.

I haven't done any checking but this has to be one of the most experienced teams IU has had in a long time.  IMO this is a very favorable factor for IU next year, and a major reason for us to feel good about our chances of winning B1G and doing well in the NCAAT.

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24 minutes ago, RoadToZion said:

Call me crazy but I think we may win it all. Find a way to knock down some 3’s and we will be hard to beat. No injuries please (looking at you Clif). 

"It's so nice to be insane because no one expects you to explain."

But Andy Katz apparently agrees with you as he has IU at #7 for next season.

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Obviously very excited to what we are bringing in and back. I'm trying to temper my expectations on the national scale. One thing by and large that has always been accurate is if a team is competing for the Big 10 championship they have a great chance to compete for F4. That's all I've ever wanted. Knock down that conference door enough times and the national stuff will come.....see Wisconsin. 

If we could just bottle up whatever hit this team in the final 12 vs Michigan and Illinois games in BTT we'll be just fine all season long. 

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I think we are going to be very good.  Tough and physical with a very strong D.  As everyone knows, the question is shooting, both in terms of jump shooting and free throws.  A guy like JHS may help set up shooters like Kopp and Bates to get them shots in better flow and position.  Guys like Galloway can hopefully bring their jump shot percentages up substantially.  (I think TG can be a huge factor for us on both ends and as a facilitator. If he can be respectable with a jump shot, watch out.  His injury last year was a factor in some losses.)

We have some guys who have gotten some experience and can understand shooting at the speed of the game.  Geronimo is another.  X may come off the ball some with JHS and he can square up and hit open shots.   Bottom line, there is potential and hopefully it all comes together.  

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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33 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

If we could just bottle up whatever hit this team in the final 12 vs Michigan and Illinois games in BTT

And there lies the key as far as I'm concerned. As I said in another thread, the TJD we saw in the 2nd half of the Michigan game, and the whole Illinois game, where Trayce basically carried us on his back, particularly in the 2nd half when he played Cockburn to a standoff. We need that Trayce all season long.

And I think Coach Woody plays the leadership part exactly right. Here are my expectations. If you don't meet or exceed them, I'll be a little more forceful in explaining them next time. I'll hold you accountable. If I think something, like Coach Woodson thought Trayce was afraid of Cockburn, I'm gonna be honest and say it. It certainly had the desired effect. Leadership 101. 

Experience is a nice thing to have. But it also has to be accompanied by a mental toughness. There is really no explainable reason Wisconsin finished at the top of the Big 10 last year. They had only 1.6 years average experience (middle of the pack). They were 14th in 3 point % and 10th in overall fg %. Statistically, they weren't as good on defense as we were. But they were mentally tough, and as bad as I hate to say this, Brad Davison (that dirty SOB!) was a big reason why. Having a tough-minded  go to guy like Johnny Davis helped too. That rubs off on the other players. That's why Wisconsin has been near the top of the Big 10 for 20 years. It's a culture. 

Edited by IUFLA
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I know this is the experience thread, and I'm all on-board with that and agree that it is huge that we have so much coming back! No disagreement there at all. 

With that said, I think a lot of us are sleeping on JHS and Reneau. If these were Indiana kids people would be so hyped. Going by rankings, this is like having Yogi and TJD in the same class. 

I realize because of the experience returning that minimizes some of the hype, and I think there is an element that they don't get hype because they're not Indiana kids so we don't know as much about them. 

But, I'd expect both to have a big (big is relative) impact. 

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20 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I know this is the experience thread, and I'm all on-board with that and agree that it is huge that we have so much coming back! No disagreement there at all. 

With that said, I think a lot of us are sleeping on JHS and Reneau. If these were Indiana kids people would be so hyped. Going by rankings, this is like having Yogi and TJD in the same class. 

I realize because of the experience returning that minimizes some of the hype, and I think there is an element that they don't get hype because they're not Indiana kids so we don't know as much about them. 

But, I'd expect both to have a big (big is relative) impact. 

I agree if the youngsters are earning big minutes and even starting, that only makes IU better.  They will have to earn it and that is a good thing IMO

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4 minutes ago, BDB said:

I agree if the youngsters are earning big minutes and even starting, that only makes IU better.  They will have to earn it and that is a good thing IMO

I think JHS starts, the opening is there. I don't think Reneau will start, there just isn't a spot in the starting group for him, but I still think he'll have a big impact. 

He should be better than both JG and Durr were last season off the bench. 

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25 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I know this is the experience thread, and I'm all on-board with that and agree that it is huge that we have so much coming back! No disagreement there at all. 

With that said, I think a lot of us are sleeping on JHS and Reneau. If these were Indiana kids people would be so hyped. Going by rankings, this is like having Yogi and TJD in the same class. 

I realize because of the experience returning that minimizes some of the hype, and I think there is an element that they don't get hype because they're not Indiana kids so we don't know as much about them. 

But, I'd expect both to have a big (big is relative) impact. 

I think JHS and X will be one of the toughest defensive guard tandems IU has had since Wilkerson and Buckner. 

Your post does get into the issue of depth.  We have always talked about depth, but it never panned out.  This coming year we will be really deep.  So one would wonder how CMW will use that and how much of an impact it will have.

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37 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I know this is the experience thread, and I'm all on-board with that and agree that it is huge that we have so much coming back! No disagreement there at all. 

With that said, I think a lot of us are sleeping on JHS and Reneau. If these were Indiana kids people would be so hyped. Going by rankings, this is like having Yogi and TJD in the same class. 

I realize because of the experience returning that minimizes some of the hype, and I think there is an element that they don't get hype because they're not Indiana kids so we don't know as much about them. 

But, I'd expect both to have a big (big is relative) impact. 

I think this year JHS will have a bigger impact because of the minutes to be had at our guard positions. I also believe his impact will be more of the intangible variety rather than sheer numbers.

Reneau is in a tougher spot because he has 2 of our 3 most important players occupying the 2 positions he can play (4 and 5) and another in Geronimo that has the experience factor over him. 

But he's very skilled on the inside. I think if anyone watches a whole game or two of this kid, you come away impressed. His inside moves, footwork, fakes, and the way he uses his body to gain position and space lets him play bigger than he is. He's sneaky good on defense too. 

Both he and JHS were standouts on what was basically a high school all star team that won the high school national championship. They're winners, plain and simple. 

And that's good for us now, and in the future... 

Edited by IUFLA
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15 minutes ago, slojoe said:

I think JHS and X will be one of the toughest defensive guard tandems IU has had since Wilkerson and Buckner. 

Your post does get into the issue of depth.  We have always talked about depth, but it never panned out.  This coming year we will be really deep.  So one would wonder how CMW will use that and how much of an impact it will have.

 

8 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I think this year JHS will have a bigger impact because of the minutes to be had at our guard positions. I also believe his impact will be more of the intangible variety rather than sheer numbers.

Reneau is in a tougher spot because he has 2 of our 3 most important players occupying the 2 positions he can play (4 and 5) and another in Geronimo that has the experience factor over him. 

But he's very skilled on the inside. I think if anyone watches a whole game or two of this kid, you come away impressed. His inside moves, footwork, fakes, and the way he uses his body to gain position and space lets him play bigger than he is. He's sneaky good on defense too. 

Both he and JHS were standouts on what was basically a high school all star team that won the high school national championship. They're winners, plain and simple. 

And that's good for us now, and in the future... 

Agree with both of you, in that it's harder to conceptualize a ton of minutes for Reneau at this point, but I think Woodson also wants to play Race and TJD less minutes this year. Especially Race as he wore down towards the end of last season. 

 

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36 minutes ago, BGleas said:

 

Agree with both of you, in that it's harder to conceptualize a ton of minutes for Reneau at this point, but I think Woodson also wants to play Race and TJD less minutes this year. Especially Race as he wore down towards the end of last season. 

 

One advantage of depth that I think often gets overlooked on this board is that it allows the players to go balls to the wall when they're in the game. This can enable them to get similar production in less time. In other words, bring able to go all out all the time when in the game can improve individual efficiency which would improve team efficiency. 

I'm going this lesson they seemed to learn late in the season carries over into next season. I think it will 

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3 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

One advantage of depth that I think often gets overlooked on this board is that it allows the players to go balls to the wall when they're in the game. This can enable them to get similar production in less time. In other words, bring able to go all out all the time when in the game can improve individual efficiency which would improve team efficiency. 

I'm going this lesson they seemed to learn late in the season carries over into next season. I think it will 

Agree, and like I said earlier my guess is that Reneau is an upgrade over last years version of JG and a huge upgrade over Durr, which means there won't be as much of a drop-off with an improved JG and Reneau backing up TJD and Race. 

Also, the difference with Reneau compared to Durr, is that now TJD, Race, JG and Reneau can all play together. You can mix and match those guys any way you like, where last season TJD and Durr couldn't really play together. 

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56 minutes ago, BGleas said:

 

Agree with both of you, in that it's harder to conceptualize a ton of minutes for Reneau at this point, but I think Woodson also wants to play Race and TJD less minutes this year. Especially Race as he wore down towards the end of last season. 

 

Your last sentence is spot on. Race was an absolute beast, but was shot by the end of the year. He had very little lift, and seemed a step slower. His legs were gone from the B1G rugby season.  Reneau and a more seasoned JG should help immensely with that this season.

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51 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

One advantage of depth that I think often gets overlooked on this board is that it allows the players to go balls to the wall when they're in the game. This can enable them to get similar production in less time. In other words, bring able to go all out all the time when in the game can improve individual efficiency which would improve team efficiency. 

I'm going this lesson they seemed to learn late in the season carries over into next season. I think it will 

Will TJD and Race embrace that concept?  For example, let's assume the 80 minutes at the 4/5 spots are split as follows:

TJD - 25

Race - 20

Renault - 20

JG - 15

Do those guys embrace that type of minute distribution for the long term good of the team?  Or, are 3 or 4 of them expecting more?

That said, I can't fathom TJD only getting 25, but splitting those 80 minutes is definitely going to be a challenge for Woodson, especially if Geronimo does not get any minutes at the 3.

 

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3 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Will TJD and Race embrace that concept?  For example, let's assume the 80 minutes at the 4/5 spots are split as follows:

TJD - 25

Race - 20

Renault - 20

JG - 15

Do those guys embrace that type of minute distribution for the long term good of the team?  Or, are 3 or 4 of them expect more?

That said, I can't fathom TJD only getting 25, but splitting those 80 minutes is definitely going to be a challenge for Woodson, especially if Geronimo does not get any minutes at the 3.

 

Like you said, TJD is certainly going to get more than 25 on average a night. I don’t think Reneau gets that many minutes, at least at this point in his career. Just too much talent ahead of him at this point. Also, another remedy to this is if JG can get some spot minutes at the 3. It feels like wishful thinking to me to bank on him progressing enough to earn the majority of his minutes at the 3. However, I still think he’ll get a handful of minutes out there each game. Say maybe 5 a game at the 3? I think it may be more along the lines of: 

 

TJD- 30

Race- 25

Reneau- 15

JG- 10 (additional minutes at the 3 not included)

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30 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Will TJD and Race embrace that concept?  For example, let's assume the 80 minutes at the 4/5 spots are split as follows:

TJD - 25

Race - 20

Renault - 20

JG - 15

Do those guys embrace that type of minute distribution for the long term good of the team?  Or, are 3 or 4 of them expecting more?

That said, I can't fathom TJD only getting 25, but splitting those 80 minutes is definitely going to be a challenge for Woodson, especially if Geronimo does not get any minutes at the 3.

 

In many of the preseason games you can use the 25/20/20/15 split and tighten it up for the big preseason games and conference games.

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5 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Will TJD and Race embrace that concept?  For example, let's assume the 80 minutes at the 4/5 spots are split as follows:

TJD - 25

Race - 20

Renault - 20

JG - 15

Do those guys embrace that type of minute distribution for the long term good of the team?  Or, are 3 or 4 of them expecting more?

That said, I can't fathom TJD only getting 25, but splitting those 80 minutes is definitely going to be a challenge for Woodson, especially if Geronimo does not get any minutes at the 3.

 

TJD said he was all about one thing this year...winning, right? He's willing to kick anybody off the team for any transgressions, right?

Then he should be fine with 5 less minutes per game during the regular season if it means it's good for the team long term and that he can go 32+ with fresher legs in the tournaments. 

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8 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Will TJD and Race embrace that concept?  For example, let's assume the 80 minutes at the 4/5 spots are split as follows:

TJD - 25

Race - 20

Renault - 20

JG - 15

Do those guys embrace that type of minute distribution for the long term good of the team?  Or, are 3 or 4 of them expecting more?

That said, I can't fathom TJD only getting 25, but splitting those 80 minutes is definitely going to be a challenge for Woodson, especially if Geronimo does not get any minutes at the 3.

 

TJD better play more than 25 minutes 

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14 hours ago, RoadToZion said:

Call me crazy but I think we may win it all. Find a way to knock down some 3’s and we will be hard to beat. No injuries please (looking at you Clif). 

Knocking down 3’s is what I’m concerned with. I know some think there will be enough internal improvement, but we didn’t really address that over the off-season and I can’t help to think “what’s new”? Hopefully we’re good enough in every other area that it doesn’t hurt us as much. We’ll see. I hope this team’s goal and belief is that they can win it all. Don’t think it’s crazy at all. 

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9 hours ago, 02Hoosier said:

Like you said, TJD is certainly going to get more than 25 on average a night. I don’t think Reneau gets that many minutes, at least at this point in his career. Just too much talent ahead of him at this point. Also, another remedy to this is if JG can get some spot minutes at the 3. It feels like wishful thinking to me to bank on him progressing enough to earn the majority of his minutes at the 3. However, I still think he’ll get a handful of minutes out there each game. Say maybe 5 a game at the 3? I think it may be more along the lines of: 

 

TJD- 30

Race- 25

Reneau- 15

JG- 10 (additional minutes at the 3 not included)

If Reneau is as good as a freshman as TJD was as a freshman then I think he gets more than 15 mpg. As good as Thompson had turned out to be, freshman TJD was better than current Thompson so he would bit in to Thompson's minutes. And freshman TJD was time better than current Geronimo.

You're probably current on TJD's minutes. The last 2 seasons he's been easily over 30 mpg and his Freshman year he was just under 30.

I think Thompson and Reneau each get around 20 mpg.

Your guess for Geronimo looks about right. 

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