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IU Scott

Great article about why injuries are way up

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24 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27125793/these-kids-ticking-bombs-threat-youth-basketball

Talks about how training year around and sports specialization at a young age is causing more and more injuries to young athletes. Very long article

I believe it my 14 year old niece is wearing a knee brace but had no catastrophic injury it’s overuse which can’t be good long term

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I am going to say what I have been saying for years.  And getting slammed for saying it each time I say it.  But here goes again. As I believe it is a contributing factor. Especially for young people who suffer from bone injuries.  And there have been studies over the past ten years to confirm. That, young American's consumption of milk is way down. And I post this on 7/11.  Wondering how many young Americans got a free slurpee from 7-11 today.  And had no milk to drink, instead. 

Thanks for the article Scott. During the off season, we at times need to go outside of the box for discussion material.  Much appreciated.

Edited by milehiiu
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13 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

I am going to say what I have been saying for years.  And getting slammed for saying it each time I say it.  But here goes again. As I believe it is a contributing factor. Especially for young people who suffer from bone injuries.  And there have been studies over the past ten years to confirm. That, young American's consumption of milk is way down. And I post this on 7/11.  Wondering how many young Americans got a free slurpee from 7-11 today.  And had no milk to drink, instead. 

Thanks for the article Scott. During the off season, we at times need to go outside of the box for discussion material.  Much appreciated.

I have thought for years that these athletes don't take enough time off after the season to let their body recover.  I was not a pro athlete but remember we played whatever sport was in season so we all played multiple sports and did it just for fun as well.  Just playing pickup ball no matter what spirt I feel is good for kids to do and not have all the pressure of playing travel ball all year long.

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32 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

I am going to say what I have been saying for years.  And getting slammed for saying it each time I say it.  But here goes again. As I believe it is a contributing factor. Especially for young people who suffer from bone injuries.  And there have been studies over the past ten years to confirm. That, young American's consumption of milk is way down. And I post this on 7/11.  Wondering how many young Americans got a free slurpee from 7-11 today.  And had no milk to drink, instead. 

Thanks for the article Scott. During the off season, we at times need to go outside of the box for discussion material.  Much appreciated.

There is a lot of debate about this topic. I just think these kids are too young to be "professionals".  Travel leagues etc. are not good for these kids. Their bodies are still developing. It's definitely an issue in many sports: football (concussions), baseball (elbow injuries), basketball (knee problems) etc. not to mention I would think the grind of playing that many games takes all the fun out of it most kids. 

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4 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

There is a lot of debate about this topic. I just think these kids are too young to be "professionals".  Travel leagues etc. are not good for these kids. Their bodies are still developing. It's definitely an issue in many sports: football (concussions), baseball (elbow injuries), basketball (knee problems) etc. not to mention I would think the grind of playing that many games takes all the fun out of it most kids. 

Thanks for the link. Informative. Was a few years back when coffee was touted as being bad for you.  These days, not considered so.  I will stand on my own, unscientific premise.  Milk builds strong bones ( and teeth).

 How to build strong bones 

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Remember reading an article where Pete Carroll discussed recruiting multisport athletes because of them learning different skillsets in different sports and types of positions.  

I also think multiple sports would also lower injury risk since different sports operate in different planes of motion and have different stressors and breaks between seasons. 

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3 hours ago, mrflynn03 said:

Remember reading an article where Pete Carroll discussed recruiting multisport athletes because of them learning different skillsets in different sports and types of positions.  

I also think multiple sports would also lower injury risk since different sports operate in different planes of motion and have different stressors and breaks between seasons. 

When I worked at Honda in Greensburg they had you do two different jobs with each going for 2 hours.  They did this because if you did the same thing every day you would get more injuries because you would overuse the same muscles over and over.

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3 hours ago, OGIUAndy said:

There is a lot of debate about this topic. I just think these kids are too young to be "professionals".  Travel leagues etc. are not good for these kids. Their bodies are still developing. It's definitely an issue in many sports: football (concussions), baseball (elbow injuries), basketball (knee problems) etc. not to mention I would think the grind of playing that many games takes all the fun out of it most kids. 

I agree. I think sports science will catch up as it has with concussions. When you’re young and through your teens your body, and mind, are continuing to develop. Lack of rest, endless training and pressure pit in your muscles, tendons, ligaments and bones, takes a toll. It’s too much

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Well I coached for 16 years and i’ll Throw out exactly what I have so many times for discussion purposes...

1.) I haven’t seen ONE study that links single sport to increased injuries. Granted to isolate the variables at that age group would be nearly impossible.

2.) Everyone who attempts to draw increase of injuries in youth to single sport specialization fail to recognize SO many other things that have changed. Rest (SLEEP), nutrition and body fat have changed A TON, as has the total number of people who do sports! The population is higher, more kids are doing sports. Percent is down in most but sheer number is up. With numbers up, injury totals go up. But is the PERCENT of injuries per athlete going up? Haven’t seen that cited.

3.) I have found that kids that do sports without proper strength training and nutrition and rest get injured WAY more. Those that take care of those three things tend to never get injured (overuse injuries that is). Just my observation.

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10 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Well I coached for 16 years and i’ll Throw out exactly what I have so many times for discussion purposes...

1.) I haven’t seen ONE study that links single sport to increased injuries. Granted to isolate the variables at that age group would be nearly impossible.

2.) Everyone who attempts to draw increase of injuries in youth to single sport specialization fail to recognize SO many other things that have changed. Rest (SLEEP), nutrition and body fat have changed A TON, as has the total number of people who do sports! The population is higher, more kids are doing sports. Percent is down in most but sheer number is up. With numbers up, injury totals go up. But is the PERCENT of injuries per athlete going up? Haven’t seen that cited.

3.) I have found that kids that do sports without proper strength training and nutrition and rest get injured WAY more. Those that take care of those three things tend to never get injured (overuse injuries that is). Just my observation.

As far as #1, there are reports out there discussing baseball pitchers.

https://coordinatedhealth.com/news/the-dangers-of-throwing-year-round/

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13 hours ago, milehiiu said:

I am going to say what I have been saying for years.  And getting slammed for saying it each time I say it.  But here goes again. As I believe it is a contributing factor. Especially for young people who suffer from bone injuries.  And there have been studies over the past ten years to confirm. That, young American's consumption of milk is way down. And I post this on 7/11.  Wondering how many young Americans got a free slurpee from 7-11 today.  And had no milk to drink, instead. 

Thanks for the article Scott. During the off season, we at times need to go outside of the box for discussion material.  Much appreciated.

An unscientific, but true story. 

I was a voracious milk drinker as a kid. I'd go through a gallon every 2 days. Slowed down a little as an adult, but still drink a lot...

About 7 years ago, I fell and broke my wrist (note: never run to beat a countdown stoplight in Washington DC, especially if it's been raining and there's a metal grate on the curb). The doctor who took care of it said, "Your bone density is off the charts. The most dense I've ever seen." 

All I could think of was, " Milk: lt does a body good."

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18 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

An unscientific, but true story. 

I was a voracious milk drinker as a kid. I'd go through a gallon every 2 days. Slowed down a little as an adult, but still drink a lot...

About 7 years ago, I fell and broke my wrist (note: never run to beat a countdown stoplight in Washington DC, especially if it's been raining and there's a metal grate on the curb). The doctor who took care of it said, "Your bone density is off the charts. The most dense I've ever seen." 

All I could think of was, " Milk: lt does a body good."

Well.... there ya go !  

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I think playing year round like allot of these kids do just ups the opportunity to get hurt.  The more you do something the more likely a poor result will eventually happen.  Eventually you will land wrong, put pressure on the wrong ligament the wrong way, or step on someones foot.  With that, i think we start too young with these kids for year round sports.  It used to only be high school kids who played year round, now you you have 7 yo travel teams for basketball, soccer, etc..   As mentioned before, they need rest, nutrition  and strength training regiments to develop correctly.  That's tough when you have year round sports, school and every other activity kids do these days. 

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In particular, these studies suggest that high calcium intake doesn’t actually appear to lower a person’s risk for osteoporosis. For example, in the large Harvard studies of male health professionals and female nurses, individuals who drank one glass of milk (or less) per week were at no greater risk of breaking a hip or forearm than were those who drank two or more glasses per week. (2, 3) When researchers combined the data from the Harvard studies with other large prospective studies, they still found no association between calcium intake and fracture risk. (4) Also, the combined results of randomized trials that compared calcium supplements with a placebo showed that calcium supplements did not protect against fractures of the hip or other bones. Moreover, there was some suggestion that calcium supplements taken without vitamin D might even increase the risk of hip fractures. A 2014 study also showed that higher milk consumption during teenage years was not associated with a lower risk of hip fracture in older adults. (27)

Additional evidence further supports the idea that American adults may not need as much calcium as is currently recommended. For example, in countries such as India, Japan, and Peru where average daily calcium intake is as low as 300 milligrams per day (less than a third of the U.S. recommendation for adults, ages 19 to 50), the incidence of bone fractures is quite low. Of course, these countries differ in other important bone-health factors as well—such as level of physical activity and amount of sunlight—which could account for their low fracture rates.

 

Lots of evidence suggests that milk may not be the key to strong bones.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/calcium-and-milk/calcium-full-story/

Edited by Kodos

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Thanks for sharing this link - as with everything it's all about moderation and balance. (You can even balance out the calcium in milk with vegetables, which are more healthy - haha)

When I think of over-training as a kid the sport I think of is gymnastics. And every serious club gymnast I knew has serious problems today: backs, knees, necks, shoulders, etc. So while, bone density is also gained with exercise and strength training - there's a line you don't cross - and I know many sports are trying to figure out that line (moderation). And then recovery, stretching and flexibility should be the balance. 

The sport I can speak of with the most education in Is swimming and there's a debate going about how much distance kids should be doing. Swimming is a sport where kids under 12 are swimming 9-10 months a year and practice 10-12 hours a week. And I know of programs that have 9 year olds training 6-7,000 yards a day (that's around 4 miles) when the majority of races they do are only 50-100 yards. This is the equivalent of sprinters in track and field running a half marathon for practice - which just seems absurd, but this is how it's always been done in swimming. Not only does this create a huge risk for shoulder injuries, but also burnout - kids quit the sport (it's not fun looking at the bottom of a pool for 2 hours a day). Anyway, the tide seems to be turning. Michael Andrew who is possibly the best age-group swimmer to come up through the ranks and has some world championships under his belt follows a strict USRPT (Ultra Short Race Pace Training) training method - he only trains short distances at max speed (race pace) with a lot of recovery.  This is highly controversial amongst coaches, Andrew is swimming only 2500-3000 yards per day, which is half of what some 9 year olds are doing. And he's one of the fastest swimmers in the world! While many old school coaches write this off as an anomaly many of the successful coaches in the college ranks (and now age-group levels) are incorporating more race pace training into their workouts and decreasing training distances.

I do find the evolution of science and exercise/sport extremely interesting, and just my opinion, but i think in the future there will be a much bigger emphasis in all sports on recovery and focus based training, which will lead to less injuries and increased performance.  *And a side note, I think through further studies of the brain we'll eventually learn how to reach an optimal performance mindset. Think about surges of adrenaline in an emergencies when people miraculously lift up cars or the reports of near death experiences when everything around them slows down. Athletes (particular extreme athletes) are already obsessed with finding these 'FLOW states'. A good book to read on this is 'The Rise of Superman: Decoding the Science of Ultimate Human Performance'.

....Sorry I digressed a little and rambled on about Swimming, but as i said,  I find this stuff really interesting. 

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15 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Thanks for the link. Informative. Was a few years back when coffee was touted as being bad for you.  These days, not considered so.  I will stand on my own, unscientific premise.  Milk builds strong bones ( and teeth).

 How to build strong bones 

Love you Mile, but no one will ever convince me that drinking cow's milk produced for calves is the right answer for humans.  To me that just defies all logic, but that it is just my own unscientific premise.

I didn't read the article, but I wonder if it mentions having too much muscle mass?  I've often wondered if adding so much weight puts an undue stress on muscles, joints, tendons and bones leading to much higher injury risk?

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28 minutes ago, The Daily Hoosier said:

Love you Mile, but no one will ever convince me that drinking cow's milk produced for calves is the right answer for humans.  To me that just defies all logic, but that it is just my own unscientific premise.

I didn't read the article, but I wonder if it mentions having too much muscle mass?  I've often wondered if adding so much weight puts an undue stress on muscles, joints, tendons and bones leading to much higher injury risk?

6 Health Benefits Of Drinking MilkPlains Dairy

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3 hours ago, milehiiu said:

I would hope that a Dairy would have studies saying that milk is an important part of growing and all the benefits.  Otherwise they aren't going to continue to sell more milk to people :P 

I would probably trust an indendent Harvard study over an actual Dairy company, but just my 2 cents

Edited by IowaHoosierFan
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5 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I would hope that a Dairy would have studies saying that milk is an important part of growing and all the benefits.  Otherwise they aren't going to continue to sell more milk to people :P 

I would probably trust and indendent Harvard study over an actual Dairy company, but just my 2 cents

Per site - Some studies have shown that women who drink low-fat milk can lose more weight than women that remove the drink completely from their daily diet.

haha - 'some studies'

It's one step below saying: "They say milk can help you lose weight"
.....'Who's they???' " 
...."you know - them!"

I feel like this has been covered on Seinfeld. 

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6 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I would hope that a Dairy would have studies saying that milk is an important part of growing and all the benefits.  Otherwise they aren't going to continue to sell more milk to people :P 

I would probably trust and indendent Harvard study over an actual Dairy company, but just my 2 cents

I thought the same thing. So I went on a search.  Found many other independent articles that supported the health benefits of milk, supplied by that milk company.

Here is just one :

5 Proven Health Benefits of Milk

Then... per your post about Harvard. I found this :

The dish on dairy - Harvard Health

As I stated earlier.  It is just my opinion.  I don't recall the bone injuries in sports we are seeing today, when I was growing up in the 50's and 60's.  Just my opinion.  As an aside. We get milk delivered to our home once every week.  In fact the milk delivery is more reliable than the the US Mail.  Milk man never misses a scheduled day, rain snow or sleet. Can't say the same for the US Mail. 

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53 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

As I stated earlier.  It is just my opinion.  I don't recall the bone injuries in sports we are seeing today, when I was growing up in the 50's and 60's.  Just my opinion.  

I think the invention of the internet, more televised sports, and the 24/7 playing coverage of sports has increased what is reported concerning sports related injuries.  

I also think the increased hormones in milk have adverse affect on young woman during development.  The saying they didn't make them like that when i was kid has some meaning behind it.

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1 hour ago, milehiiu said:

I thought the same thing. So I went on a search.  Found many other independent articles that supported the health benefits of milk, supplied by that milk company.

Here is just one :

5 Proven Health Benefits of Milk

Then... per your post about Harvard. I found this :

The dish on dairy - Harvard Health

As I stated earlier.  It is just my opinion.  I don't recall the bone injuries in sports we are seeing today, when I was growing up in the 50's and 60's.  Just my opinion.  As an aside. We get milk delivered to our home once every week.  In fact the milk delivery is more reliable than the the US Mail.  Milk man never misses a scheduled day, rain snow or sleet. Can't say the same for the US Mail. 

The Harvard story had me at "not essential to optimal health"

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Well, I said it earlier.  Any time I bring up what I believe to be the health benefits of drinking milk as a young American. I attract a lot of flack.  Good to see not much has changed. I am not angry or mad.  I just stand on my personal belief.

Thanks to all for their inputs.  Hope you all are having a GREAT summer !

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