Brass Cannon Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 23 hours ago, IUFLA said: Saying Tom Crean is responsible for Romeo going to IU is akin to saying Al Gore invented the internet... But you probably believe that too... Well I didn’t say either. So don’t let reading get in the way of your childish insults or anything. Keep on trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 35 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: At this point I am so confused on who to give credit to or who to blame. Seems like there is a narrative available to support any and all positions . Last year at 12-1 we praised CAM but when things fell apart and the rough patches this year is because we still have CTC players. Many bash CTC for not winning yet at UGA with someone's else's players. Grant has Dayton top 10 but is it with CAMS or his players. I dont buy any of the crap. Each coach gets paid to coach the team in front of them. They deserve the credit and the blame cant keep playing the back and forth to fit the narrative. This is CAM team win or lose. NO EXCUSES NO EXPLANATION. I understand the angst... And I know I sound like a broken record, but... Archie is trying to change the culture. It's tough to do from a leadership standpoint, but it'll benefit the program in the long run. Of the 4 I'm almost certain CAM would have never recruited Smith or Green, Durham is iffy, and to me only De'Ron is a given (even though his career doesn't match the expectations of a top 50 out of high school player...but I do love the guy)... I've said in many threads, I'm willing to be patient through the time his 1st recruiting class are seniors... And then see where we're at as far as progress goes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 Guys take it down a notch -- people can feel strongly about our team and their own opinions but no need to get personal, no need to call posters names etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 On 2/1/2020 at 10:33 PM, Brass Cannon said: Still doesn’t change the fact Crean started it by offering the scholarship. Yet Archie gets credit because he sealed the deal. Just like Dayton’s coach gets credit for sealing the deal with recruits originally offered by Archie You inferred Crean should get some sort of credit in this post... Look, I get the schtick...you're on here to provoke...good for you... I come on here to have serious basketball discussion with more than a few posters on this board that I think have great insight into IU basketball and sports in general...you aren't one of them... And if you don't care for my comments, there's an ignore feature... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, IUFLA said: You inferred Crean should get some sort of credit in this post... Look, I get the schtick...you're on here to provoke...good for you... I come on here to have serious basketball discussion with more than a few posters on this board that I think have great insight into IU basketball and sports in general...you aren't one of them... And if you don't care for my comments, there's an ignore feature... Lol I literally posted this to claim that Crean should get no credit. Because somebody was giving Archie credit for a player at Dayton that never played for him and committed after he left. And the I ended the post saying the person who sealed the deal gets the credit. Lol how did you misinterpret that as Crean gets credit. So you literally get nothing about me apparently. You really need to read posts and put a bare minimum of thought into understanding them before insulting people. Because insulting people for things they didn’t say is a special kind of bad posting. See you might be think you are having great conversations just post random stuff without bothering to read but the other people probably don’t think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogermci Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 This thread has gone from non productive to counter productive, from somewhat positive to totally negative. Recruits read these boards, why do we continue this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 14 minutes ago, Rogermci said: This thread has gone from non productive to counter productive, from somewhat positive to totally negative. Recruits read these boards, why do we continue this? Because some fans bury their heads in the sand and don't realize that our fan base is a small part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 23 minutes ago, Rogermci said: This thread has gone from non productive to counter productive, from somewhat positive to totally negative. Recruits read these boards, why do we continue this? These recruits don’t need us to tell them that our offense is broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Because some fans bury their heads in the sand and don't realize that our fan base is a small part of the problem. C'mon, man, seriously? You seriously think that IU fans are unique in that we're the ONLY fanbase with this sort of behavior, that get frustrated when we lose? There's no way Kentucky, or Kansas, or Duke, or Purdue, or any other fanbase doesn't do this as well? Get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 1 minute ago, AxnJxn said: C'mon, man, seriously? You seriously think that IU fans are unique in that we're the ONLY fanbase with this sort of behavior, that get frustrated when we lose? There's no way Kentucky, or Kansas, or Duke, or Purdue, or any other fanbase doesn't do this as well? Get real. Well I am serious because it has been proven that parents and players read what is said on social media. Did not say we are the only reason but I think some players and even coaches won't look at IU because of the lack of patience from our fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 I will also say besides UK I don't believe other fan bases rip their current players like we do after every bad game or even when we win. I am guilty as anyone but after a loss we should not come here a rip players personally because it is a bad look and bad for the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Well I am serious because it has been proven that parents and players read what is said on social media. Did not say we are the only reason but I think some players and even coaches won't look at IU because of the lack of patience from our fans. Sorry, but this is complete nonsense. I'm sure OSU fans are having the same issues with Holtmann, Purdue fans have certainly shown frustration with Painter, etc. Every fan base has people that are positive and negative - Kentucky ran both Tubby and Gillespie out of town, so the idea that we're somehow unique in this aspect is pretty ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: Sorry, but this is complete nonsense. I'm sure OSU fans are having the same issues with Holtmann, Purdue fans have certainly shown frustration with Painter, etc. Every fan base has people that are positive and negative - Kentucky ran both Tubby and Gillespie out of town, so the idea that we're somehow unique in this aspect is pretty ridiculous. To me it is a sad state of affairs when we as fans base that we live our lives through these kids and that our happiness is based on what a 18-22 kid does on a basketball court. I don't care if any other fan base does it because it does not make it right and we should be above ripping kids on a message board or social media just because they did not meet some old guys expectations. As for UK I would bet their fans had something to do with why Donovan kept turning them down every time they had an opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said: Lol I literally posted this to claim that Crean should get no credit. Because somebody was giving Archie credit for a player at Dayton that never played for him and committed after he left. And the I ended the post saying the person who sealed the deal gets the credit. Lol how did you misinterpret that as Crean gets credit. So you literally get nothing about me apparently. You really need to read posts and put a bare minimum of thought into understanding them before insulting people. Because insulting people for things they didn’t say is a special kind of bad posting. See you might be think you are having great conversations just post random stuff without bothering to read but the other people probably don’t think so. Oh, I get you...as I said, you're here to simply provoke...you tried to poke 3 or 4 people in this thread when Archie and his affect on the current Dayton culture came up...you tried to sarcastically imply that Archie had no bearing on Dayton's current success... Then you tried to infer that offering a scholarship and having a recruit (Romeo) for a campus visit was akin to being "in" on a recruit and that Scott made up the fact that while Tom Crean was coach, Romeo had no interest in IU...When I linked an article that said just that, you dropped it... So, yeah, I get you...my personal feeling on it is that people who don't have much to offer in the way of substantive dialogue try to disrupt... As I said, good for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radio Zero Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Billingsley99 said: At this point I am so confused on who to give credit to or who to blame. Seems like there is a narrative available to support any and all positions . Last year at 12-1 we praised CAM but when things fell apart and the rough patches this year is because we still have CTC players. Many bash CTC for not winning yet at UGA with someone's else's players. Grant has Dayton top 10 but is it with CAMS or his players. I dont buy any of the crap. Each coach gets paid to coach the team in front of them. They deserve the credit and the blame cant keep playing the back and forth to fit the narrative. This is CAM team win or lose. NO EXCUSES NO EXPLANATION. Agree with this completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Radio Zero said: Agree with this completely. Just a question for both you and billingsley... Do either of you think that Mike Davis, as a head coach, would have recruited Tom Coverdale, Dane Fife, or Kyle Hornsby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 23 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Just a question for both you and billingsley... Do either of you think that Mike Davis, as a head coach, would have recruited Tom Coverdale, Dane Fife, or Kyle Hornsby? Probably not but they were on the team that he got paid to Coach. For whatever reason those guys have had lots of positive things to say about Davis. It's the coaches job to use what they have and mold it into a team. A very successful wise coach once told me its easier to adjust your system to your players than to change your players to fit your system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: Probably not but they were on the team that he got paid to Coach. For whatever reason those guys have had lots of positive things to say about Davis. It's the coaches job to use what they have and mold it into a team. A very successful wise coach once told me its easier to adjust your system to your players than to change your players to fit your system. I understand what you're saying...I think at the end of last year CAM tried to adjust some by letting Devonte go a little bit...last year, seems like he tried to let our players play through mistakes...not this year... I guess my point is, the culture pendulum swings both ways...if you walk into a situation where the culture has been good, and players have been recruited to fit a certain style of play, it can yield benefits...I know Fife, Coverdale et al have good things to say about MD, but look how it turned out when he got players with the mindset and game he thought he wanted... CAM is recruiting players he wants...mindset, game skills...and as I've said numerous times, if he's not getting it done when his first real class (Phinisee, Hunter, Anderson) are seniors, then we start looking elsewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 41 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Oh, I get you...as I said, you're here to simply provoke...you tried to poke 3 or 4 people in this thread when Archie and his affect on the current Dayton culture came up...you tried to sarcastically imply that Archie had no bearing on Dayton's current success... Then you tried to infer that offering a scholarship and having a recruit (Romeo) for a campus visit was akin to being "in" on a recruit and that Scott made up the fact that while Tom Crean was coach, Romeo had no interest in IU...When I linked an article that said just that, you dropped it... So, yeah, I get you...my personal feeling on it is that people who don't have much to offer in the way of substantive dialogue try to disrupt... As I said, good for you... Once again never said that Crean should get credit. In fact said the exact opposite But hey don’t let facts get in the way off your opinions and insults. There’s a term for that and it ain’t good conversationalist. You say I’m here to provoke yet your here insulting people for things they didn’t say. Very trollish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 33 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I understand what you're saying...I think at the end of last year CAM tried to adjust some by letting Devonte go a little bit...last year, seems like he tried to let our players play through mistakes...not this year... I guess my point is, the culture pendulum swings both ways...if you walk into a situation where the culture has been good, and players have been recruited to fit a certain style of play, it can yield benefits...I know Fife, Coverdale et al have good things to say about MD, but look how it turned out when he got players with the mindset and game he thought he wanted... CAM is recruiting players he wants...mindset, game skills...and as I've said numerous times, if he's not getting it done when his first real class (Phinisee, Hunter, Anderson) are seniors, then we start looking elsewhere... I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I have been a believer that you play the way you practice. I have had teams with no talent but they played hard because it was demanded and as they got better and some talent came through we were pretty good and played hard. With this program I have not seen the hard nosed blue collar team I expected from an Archie Miller team. That is why I have concern and have a hard time watching the product. Another old saying from a coach, you cant make chicken salad from chicken poop. I dont feel this team is chicken poop I just dont think its being properly prepared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I have been a believer that you play the way you practice. I have had teams with no talent but they played hard because it was demanded and as they got better and some talent came through we were pretty good and played hard. With this program I have not seen the hard nosed blue collar team I expected from an Archie Miller team. That is why I have concern and have a hard time watching the product. Another old saying from a coach, you cant make chicken salad from chicken poop. I dont feel this team is chicken poop I just dont think its being properly prepared But you've played, and more importantly, coached sports...you know from both perspectives what player leadership means to a team...good player leadership can can raise a team, and bad player leadership can sink it... I think we're in the middle somewhere...I think the 2 team captains, Al and Devonte want to give Archie what he wants, they're just fighting a lifetime of conditioning to get there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 24 minutes ago, IUFLA said: But you've played, and more importantly, coached sports...you know from both perspectives what player leadership means to a team...good player leadership can can raise a team, and bad player leadership can sink it... I think we're in the middle somewhere...I think the 2 team captains, Al and Devonte want to give Archie what he wants, they're just fighting a lifetime of conditioning to get there... Once again I agree with that. Lack of leadership has been the biggest issue since Yogi left, well that and shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: Once again I agree with that. Lack of leadership has been the biggest issue since Yogi left, well that and shooting. To me you have to recruit leadership because I don't think you can make a leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 Just now, IU Scott said: To me you have to recruit leadership because I don't think you can make a leader. I agree. I have always believed leaders are born. I dont believe it's a teachable quality. It's an inherent trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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