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Reacher

Coronavirus

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2 hours ago, Reacher said:

I thought this piece did a great job connecting some dots-

 

"There are four ways to categorize any given reality. It can be scary but not dangerous, scary and dangerous, dangerous but not scary, or not dangerous and not scary.

Clearly, COVID-19 ranks high on the scary scale. A Google news search on the virus brings up over 1.5 billion news results. To date, the virus has tragically killed nearly 100,000 people in the United States, and more lives will be lost. But on a scale of harmless to extremely dangerous, it would still fall into the category of slightly to mildly dangerous for most people, excluding the elderly and those with preexisting medical conditions.

In comparison, many have no idea that heart disease is the leading cause of death in the United States, killing around 650,000 people every year, 54,000 per month, or approximately 200,000 people between February and mid-May of this year. This qualifies as extremely dangerous. But most people are not very frightened of it. A Google news search for heart disease brings up around 100 million results, under one-fifteenth the results of the COVID-19 search.

It's critical to be able to distinguish between fear and danger. Fear is an emotion, it's the risk that we perceive. As an emotion, it is often blind to the facts. For example, the chances of dying from a shark attack are minuscule, but the thought still crosses most people's minds when they play in the ocean. Danger is measurable, and in the case of sharks, the danger is low, even if fear is sometimes high.

According to CDC data, 81% of deaths from COVID-19 in the United States are people over 65 years old, most with preexisting conditions. If you add in 55-64-year-olds that number jumps to 93%. For those below age 55, preexisting conditions play a significant role, but the death rate is currently around 0.0022%, or one death per 45,000 people in this age range. Below 25 years old the fatality rate of COVID-19 is 0.00008%, or roughly one in 1.25 million, and yet we have shut down all schools and day-care centers, some never to open again! This makes it harder for mothers and fathers to remain employed.

All life is precious. No death should be ignored, but we have allowed our fear to move resources away from areas that are more dangerous, but less scary, to areas that are scary, but less dangerous. And herein lies the biggest problem.

Hospitals and doctors' offices have had to be much more selective in the people they are seeing, leaving beds open for COVID-19 patients and cutting out elective surgeries. According to Komodo, in the weeks following the first shelter-in-place orders, cervical cancer screenings were down 68%, cholesterol panels were down 67%, and the blood sugar tests to detect diabetes were off 65% nationally.

It doesn't stop there. The U.N. estimates that infant mortality rates could rise by hundreds of thousands in 2020 because of the global recession and diverted health care resources. Add in opioid addiction, alcoholism, domestic violence and other detrimental reactions from job loss and despair. It's tragic.

The benefits gained through this fear-based shutdown (if there really are any) have massively increased dangers in the both the short term and the long term. Every day that businesses are shuttered, and people remain unemployed or underemployed, the economic wounds grow more deadly. The loss of wealth is immense, and this will undermine the ability of nations around the world to deal with true dangers for decades to come, maybe forever."

This is all very good to put into perspective. I think there are a couple of factors to why react differently to something like heart disease. Not arguing either way...just diving into the human psyche. 

1. Hospitals are set-up to operate at capacity and capacity does not differ that much from year to year. If changes are needed, slow moving trends will help them prepare to meet the treatment demand. We know a certain percentage is needed for heart disease, some for cancer, some for accidents, etc. But when an unexpected pandemic hits like Corona, and there's a spike in hospitalizations that flirts with capacity numbers, people naturally fear if they get sick they won't be able to get treatment. We're fortunate that didn't happen here like it did in Italy. 

2. I think another thing that makes people uncomfortable is the lack of control. Heart disease is a slow moving threat. Many times, people are in control of their own fate by lifestyle choices they make and decrease or increase their chances of a longer life-span. It's much harder to control coronavirus and this makes us uneasy. Somebody can not 'give you' heart disease, but they can give you Coronavirus. 

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I mentioned this earlier in this thread.  Mrs. mile was misdiagnosed with having lupus many decades ago.  And the doctor put her on  hydroxchloroquine.  Despite the wrong diagnosis, the doctor  has kept Mrs. mile  on it for years. Never taking her off of it.  Been relatively inexpensive, all these years.   Today.... she went for a renewal.  And the price has more than doubled. 

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2 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

This is all very good to put into perspective. I think there are a couple of factors to why react differently to something like heart disease. Not arguing either way...just diving into the human psyche. 

1. Hospitals are set-up to operate at capacity and capacity does not differ that much from year to year. If changes are needed, slow moving trends will help them prepare to meet the treatment demand. We know a certain percentage is needed for heart disease, some for cancer, some for accidents, etc. But when an unexpected pandemic hits like Corona, and there's a spike in hospitalizations that flirts with capacity numbers, people naturally fear if they get sick they won't be able to get treatment. We're fortunate that didn't happen here like it did in Italy. 

2. I think another thing that makes people uncomfortable is the lack of control. Heart disease is a slow moving threat. Many times, people are in control of their own fate by lifestyle choices they make and decrease or increase their chances of a longer life-span. It's much harder to control coronavirus and this makes us uneasy. Somebody can not 'give you' heart disease, but they can give you Coronavirus. 

Going to build on your excellent post! First hospital capacity.

Hospital’s typically lose money in ER. Too many uninsured use the ER as their sole medical resource with no intention of ever paying a bill! Case in point, I put up a semi friend in my house for several years, otherwise he would have been homeless! He would go to ER whenever the spirit came upon him or money for booze ran out so he didn’t have to go through the DT’s without drugs! Shortly before he left he did a mail forwarding to some fictitious PO Box in North Carolina I believe. He owed 10’s of thousands over the years! Elective surgery is where the money is at and with CV that’s not happening! My daughter was talking with her doctor while I was there about moving her up because her shoulder pain from torn cartilage  was getting worse! The doctor said maybe 2 months instead of 6 months?

On your second point all I can say is that maybe just maybe, people will start to revaluate their life choices because of CV! One can only hope!

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4 hours ago, milehiiu said:

If I were Target. Auto Zone. And the other businesses in that part of Minnesota.  That got looted or burned to the ground.  I would never open up again.  Those people that rioted last night don't deserve businesses like that.

Having said that.  Protest. Peacefully.  And ask.... why is not that police officer not arrested for murder ? 

Yeah. I know. Not Caronavirus related.   However, during this time.  Just had to get this off my chest.

I think murder would be hard to prove in court but something like involuntary manslaughter maybe?  There is a 9 minute long video of the incident.  Those turd cops have likely put honest cops lives in danger. 

Have never understood the mentality behind looting and rioting. 

Edited by mrflynn03
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31 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I think murder would be hard to prove in court but something like involuntary manslaughter maybe?  There is a 9 minute long video of the incident.  Those turd cops have likely put honest cops lives in danger. 

Have never understood the mentality behind looting and rioting. 

I am not an attorney. So I may not have used the proper term.  Having said that.... I still have a problem that the cop with his knee on the victim's neck, which resulted in death. Is still not behind bars. And the cops standing there, watching it happen are subject as well, IMHO.   If Minnesota is not going to do something about this. Then the federal government needs to step in. 

Again. Not coronovirus related.  However, the more I think of this, and the fact that no one has been charged is bothersome to me.

Oh by the way. Local tv is showing a protest over the death, beginning at the State Capitol in Denver.  I am ok the the protest.  Just hope it does not turn into a riot.

Edited by milehiiu
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13 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

I don't doubt that there are studies that cast doubt on the effectiveness of masks, but not that they will "make matters worse" in regards to COVID19. To make things more confusing, a lot of studies focus on using a mask for self-protection, not transmission prevention; and were completed before COVID19 was even a thing. I don't' believe there are any completed studies that actually test masks with COVID19. I was listening to a podcast that summarized many of these studies and there were a whole bunch of factors they are concentrating on: different types of masks, how well they filter a virus, etc., but none disputed the fact that masks decrease the projectile of airborne droplets, which is this virus's preferred method of transmission. 

But if you are concerned about contamination via touch, I think I'd rather have an asymptomatic person touch their face mask and then test the ripeness of an avocado that I ultimately pick out, rather than coughing directly on the avocado. (a completely unscientific assumption on my part 😀

Right.  That seems to make sense.  

The point I'm trying to make.  I'm assuming many of these masks, being homemade and decorated, are being reused and sometimes worn all day.  Honestly, brutally honest, I've had the same mask for about 4 weeks.  It hasn't been cleaned.  It should be thrown in the trash, technically, after each and every use.  And here's the point.  Every time a dirty hand touches a mask, it now becomes contaminated and should be trashed.  But I guarantee I'm not the only one not 'properly' disinfecting my mask and reusing it.  Much less the nervous twitch touching and readjusting.  University of Minnesota released something.  Don't know how covid 19 specific it was, I'll have to double check.  

We go on known covid, HIV, and hepatitis patients,  sometimes daily, weekly, whatever.  When one of them tells us they have xyz, I don't reuse the gloves I touched them with.  I question if the mask, especially since the CDC couldn't make up their mind until the last 10 days about their effectiveness, is nothing more than, as Fauci said in March, "the illusion of safety," when in all actuality we are walking around wearing a 'contaminated' mask.  

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data

Edited by NotIThatLives
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@NotIThatLives

I've been rotating masks, surgical, homemade,  N95(pretty much worn those out) but they just arent available.  Guess who has a monopoly on industrial mask production, China. 

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Homemade masks.  After two uses... Mr's mile puts ours in the washing machine on high heat.  Then. In the dryer.  And finally irons them.

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6 hours ago, milehiiu said:

I am not an attorney. So I may not have used the proper term.  Having said that.... I still have a problem that the cop with his knee on the victim's neck, which resulted in death. Is still not behind bars. And the cops standing there, watching it happen are subject as well, IMHO.   If Minnesota is not going to do something about this. Then the federal government needs to step in. 

Again. Not coronovirus related.  However, the more I think of this, and the fact that no one has been charged is bothersome to me.

Oh by the way. Local tv is showing a protest over the death, beginning at the State Capitol in Denver.  I am ok the the protest.  Just hope it does not turn into a riot.

Totally agree with you.  And the cops standing aside, surely one could have stepped in. They are all complicit.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/fbi-investigating-black-mans-death-after-video-shows-minneapolis-officer-kneeling-on-neck

The Feds are investigating so hopefully justice will be served.

Not trying to denigrate cops, because most are probably good people, but I know half my local city cops and sheriff deputies, and they aren't sending their best. 

 

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17 hours ago, milehiiu said:

If I were Target. Auto Zone. And the other businesses in that part of Minnesota.  That got looted or burned to the ground.  I would never open up again.  Those people that rioted last night don't deserve businesses like that.

Having said that.  Protest. Peacefully.  And ask.... why is not that police officer not arrested for murder ? 

Yeah. I know. Not Caronavirus related.   However, during this time.  Just had to get this off my chest.

I might be wrong but from what I saw the riots turned violent after police attacked peaceful protests with Rubber bullets and tear gas. 

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1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

I might be wrong but from what I saw the riots turned violent after police attacked peaceful protests with Rubber bullets and tear gas. 

That's my understanding as well. The cops seemed to have escalated this.

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18 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Can we move this ^^^ conversation to the appropriate thread? Thanks.

It's a long standing tradition at HSN. It's called TDS. Thread Derailment Syndrome. 😄

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<sarcasm>Boy, FL is having a really rough flu season.</sarcasm>

For the last five years they were hovering between 3,722 (low) and 3,938 (high) flu deaths. This year for the same period, they ALREADY have 5063 flu deaths.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

<sarcasm>Boy, FL is having a really rough flu season.</sarcasm>

For the last five years they were hovering between 3,722 (low) and 3,938 (high) flu deaths. This year for the same period, they ALREADY have 5063 flu deaths.

 

 

Thoughts? 

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2 hours ago, RoadToZion said:

Thoughts? 

That guy's numbers are the numbers I quoted. They were from last night. Looks like they are trying to update/clarify now. I'll admit that the data is noisy, the numbers can be confusing, and finally that I am not an epidemiologist or a biostatistician - just a lowly administrator.

With everything going on in FL around their numbers and data person leaving, it's really difficult to know who to trust.

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To put things in perspective, just got done crying on the phone with my daughter! She called to give me her support with the announcement that we would be on furlough another week, with an expected decision on when we go back coming Monday.
Then she told me that her best friend for the last 30 had her father finally  lose his fight with cancer! We both lost it for awhile and I still have wetness in my eyes as I type!

There are still far greater illnesses out there than CV and we need to remember that!

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26 minutes ago, Drroogh said:

To put things in perspective, just got done crying on the phone with my daughter! She called to give me her support with the announcement that we would be on furlough another week, with an expected decision on when we go back coming Monday.
Then she told me that her best friend for the last 30 had her father finally  lose his fight with cancer! We both lost it for awhile and I still have wetness in my eyes as I type!

There are still far greater illnesses out there than CV and we need to remember that!

Lifting you and those close to u up in prayer.  We someTimes forget what others are going through because we focus so much on the mountain in front of us and dont see all the great things we have. I too often forget that many people are facing far worse situations that I am. Prayers my friend. 

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1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

Lifting you and those close to u up in prayer.  We someTimes forget what others are going through because we focus so much on the mountain in front of us and dont see all the great things we have. I too often forget that many people are facing far worse situations that I am. Prayers my friend. 

 

1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

Lifting you and those close to u up in prayer.  We someTimes forget what others are going through because we focus so much on the mountain in front of us and dont see all the great things we have. I too often forget that many people are facing far worse situations that I am. Prayers my friend. 

Knew of all people you would understand. My prayers continue for you and Ayden !

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1 hour ago, Drroogh said:

 

Knew of all people you would understand. My prayers continue for you and Ayden !

Lots of people here do. That's why this is family. 

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Just wondering where the outrage is over the huge crowds. 

A week ago people were saying states are risking thousands of lives by opening, now streets are full by the tens of thousands in numerous states. But everyone is okay with it.

And no, everyone isnt wearing a face mask. 

 

Edited by RoadToZion
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1 hour ago, RoadToZion said:

Just wondering where the outrage is over the huge crowds. 

A week ago people were saying states are risking thousands of lives by opening, now streets are full by the tens of thousands in numerous states. But everyone is okay with it.

And no, everyone isnt wearing a face mask. 

 

"Stupid is. As stupid does. " ......Forrest Gump

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2 hours ago, RoadToZion said:

Just wondering where the outrage is over the huge crowds. 

A week ago people were saying states are risking thousands of lives by opening, now streets are full by the tens of thousands in numerous states. But everyone is okay with it.

And no, everyone isnt wearing a face mask. 

 

Thoughts @Lostin76?

Are people going to be dying like crazy now after these riots? Who's to blame if that happens? 

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