IU and Vaccine

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I'm not sure those countries aren't worried?  That feels like you imparting your own feelings unto them.  The leaders of those countries are trying really hard to get more vaccines and to get their populations to take them.

So.. what's the percentage of people that need to get this vaccine to stop the alleged variants?

Maybe the United States needs to stop giving it's vaccines to all of us and send them all to Japan or Canada... or everywhere. We have 40% of the country fully vaccinated. No other country touches that.

[btownqb]

Idk. To each their own. You all have a good one.

[HoosierFaithful]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

So.. what's the percentage of people that need to get this vaccine to stop the alleged variants?

Maybe the United States needs to stop giving it's vaccines to all of us and send them all to Japan or Canada... or everywhere. We have 40% of the country fully vaccinated. No other country touches that.

Many people agree with you here - including me.  Say what you will about our response to COVID, but our vaccine development (credit Trump) and vaccine rollout (credit largely Biden) have been strong.  

I'm not sure on the number to stop variants - I'm not well educated enough to say.  I do know that scientists increasingly think herd immunity is a pipe dream.  I listened to a rather depressing NYT podcast the other day on it.

[HoosierFaithful]

Also, the variants aren't "alleged" - we've already seen lots of them!  We just haven't hit one that is vaccine resistant yet.

This is the same reason that when you get strep throat, the doctors stress to take all of the penicillin.  If you don't, you run the risk of developing a strain of strep that is resistant to penicillin, which is by far our most effective medical response.  This isn't a new concept.  This is widely accepted.

[Reacher]

2 hours ago, btownqb said:

There is not nearly enough information out about this vaccine and you guys know it. Asking a 19 year old female to get a vaccine when she doesn't know the effects it might have later on in regards to child birth is borderline disgusting, to me.

Agreed. I recent Pfizer study of 12-15 year olds that were vaccinated showed almost 80% had side effects. Some severe. 

[tdhoosier]

28 minutes ago, btownqb said:

What are the ages that can get the vaccine now?

I think companies are a different discussion than a public university. I also don't think companies should have to give people weeks off for maternity leave lol but that's a different discussion.

 

12 and older

[Reacher]

From the WSJ-

Half of U.S. Adults Are Fully Vaccinated

(…) Twenty-five states and the District of Columbia have fully vaccinated 50% or more of their adult population, Mr. Slavitt said. In nine states, at least 70% of the adult population has gotten at least one dose, he said. (…)

The current seven-day average of new confirmed infections is 22,877 cases a day, a decrease of about 25% from the prior seven days. In early January, the seven-day average of daily new cases peaked at more than 250,000.

Hospitalizations and deaths have also steadily declined, with the seven-day average of daily deaths at 501 deaths a day.

[rico]

34 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Idk. To each their own. You all have a good one.

Nothing wrong with a man standing up for what he believes in.

[tdhoosier]

6 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Agreed. I recent Pfizer study of 12-15 year olds that were vaccinated showed almost 80% had side effects. Some severe. 

If you can find it, would you mind sharing the study?

I'm curious to know what side effects and what percentage of those side effects were severe. Are we talking fevers within 24 hours of jab or @5fouls 3rd nipple? 

[IUFLA]

I don't know if this is  shocking to this crowd or not, but federal workers, including contractors, are not required to get the vaccine...

I can't even ask my employees if they've gotten it...Although the government gives them 4 hours of admin leave (doesn't come off of their annual leave or sick leave totals) to get the shot...But they don't have to provide me with proof that they did get it...

You can thank public unions for all of this...

Edited May 26, 2021 by IUFLA

[FKIM01]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

I followed every regulation sent my way during the height of this thing. I missed Xmas and a birthday celebration (my own lol on Dec 22nd) because I had Covid.

Your stance makes perfect sense to be based on the above.  I heard an immunologist recently literally ridiculing vaccination requirements for someone who had already had the Wuhan flu...equated it to driving your car through a touchless wash right after having it detailed and waxed.

Makes sense to me.  What little I learned about immunology before changing majors was that the immune response (and subsequent immunity) is much greater when actually having the disease than when getting vaccinated for it.

[FKIM01]

11 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Agreed. I recent Pfizer study of 12-15 year olds that were vaccinated showed almost 80% had side effects. Some severe. 

I can tell you that my 24-year-old daughter spent the day in bed after her second vaccination dose (but was fine after that).  My wife & I (55) had virtually no side effects beyond maybe a slightly sore injection site.  It seems that younger people may be more likely to have a stronger autoimmune reaction to the vaccine.

[Reacher]

As you can see from my link above, cases are declining rapidly as more people get their vaccines and a larger population develops antibodies (if @btownqbhas natural antibodies, why would he need a vaccine until before his antibodies are shown to have declined?)  Combine that with those who have natural immunity and I expect #s to continue to fall. Nothing we do in the US from this point on will affect variants. Mutations will occur in the rest of the world where vaccination rates are lower.  My neighbor has an 11 yr old daughter that just got Covid. Mild symptoms but had a loss of taste that prompted them to get her tested. Does she now need a vaccine? I'd argue she doesn't. Could she still get into IU?

 

[Reacher]

7 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

If you can find it, would you mind sharing the study?

I'm curious to know what side effects and what percentage of those side effects were severe. Are we talking fevers within 24 hours of jab or @5fouls 3rd nipple? 

The new “factsheet” showed that the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccination was tested on 1097 children and adolescents from 12 to 15 years of age. At least 866 out of 1097 children developed some form of unpleasant side effect. In 466 the side effects were described as “mild”, in 393 they were “moderate” and in 7 they were described as “severe”.

The study was set up as a double-blind study, one in which neither the participants nor the experimenters know who is receiving a particular treatment. In addition to the 1127 children and adolescents injected with the first dose and 1097 with the second dose, 1127 and 1078 were injected with a saline solution as a placebo. The differences were remarkable: of the children vaccinated with the real vaccine, over five times as many complained of side effects within the first seven days.

In detail these were:

First vaccination
Fever over 38 degrees C (114)
Fatigue (677)
Headache (623)
Shivering (311)
Vomiting (31)
Diarrhea (90)
Muscle pain (272)
Joint pain (109)

Second vaccination
Fever over 38 degrees C (215)
Fatigue (726)
Headache (708)
Shivering (455)
Vomiting (29)
Diarrhea (65)
Muscle pain (355)
Joint pain (173)

Potentially fatal appendicitis is one of the potentially serious side effects that were seen more frequently in those injected with the product than in the comparison group.

[Reacher]

Vaccine will not be required at GA Universities.

https://gov.georgia.gov/document/2021-executive-order/05252101/download

[mrflynn03]

5 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

I'm not sure I get the point in reference to my reply. 

The first part has nothing to do with the conversation.

And again, Just like the nurses who deal with immunocompromised people, there are employers who have their reasons for requiring vaccination. This is not to say all employers will or should, this was never my point. It's that there will be some and in the eyes of the law it's going to be hard to distinguish which employers have valid reasons and which don't. 

Will there be law suits? Probably. But I'm willing to bet that they side with companies because a) it's going to be hard to argue that COVID is not a community health threat  and b) this would be seen as government over-stepping their role by imposing on company policies. Companies have lost a lot of money and they are behind on production due to outbreaks in their facilities. My industry has been slammed with supply issues and increased lead times that are traced back to an inconsistent work force. Outbreaks have hurt companies' bottom lines and has affected the supply of so many goods in so many industries. Is it a valid reason to argue that a healthy and vaccinated workforce is a needed step for some companies to dig themselves out of a hole? Is the government going to interfere with this? These are valid questions, and for most companies a decision to mandate vaccination will not be a political decision, it will be a financial or health related decision. All that I'm saying is that it is a slippery slope and these lawsuits/drafted letters shared on social media as memes will not have much affect on a judicial decision. 

Just for clarity, the first part was in response to what you said about before covid noone was complaining about loss of liberty and government control ect. which is true and people resistant to vaccines. But hypocrisy by government officials is a part of what led to that. 

As for supply chain issues, that is a valid concern and something that is largely forgotten or ignored.  I notice it my field. Too often the laboratories I work in come close to running out of sterile materials to do testing.  In microbiology sterile, aseptic environments are critical for getting accurate results.  Its largely our supplies that are plastic that run low.  

I called the Cali governor a balloon head because I think he looks like Mr. Mackey from South Park. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by mrflynn03

[5fouls]

The argument here really isn't whether or not a single individual should be vaccinated.  It's about whether a business (or in this case a university) can withhold services from someone who is not vaccinated.  It's a practice that has been employed in educational arenas for over a generation and, other than the occasional parent that takes issue due to religious beliefs, it has never been questioned.  Whether we believe it to be fair or not, from where I sit, IU seems to have the right to enforce.  

[HoosierFaithful]

10 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

The argument here really isn't whether or not a single individual should be vaccinated.  It's about whether a business (or in this case a university) can withhold services from someone who is not vaccinated.  It's a practice that has been employed in educational arenas for over a generation and, other than the occasional parent that takes issue due to religious beliefs, it has never been questioned.  Whether we believe it to be fair or not, from where I sit, IU seems to have the right to enforce.  

right - nobody is forcing anything, but admittance to IU is not a god given right.  

[Reacher]

12 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

right - nobody is forcing anything, but admittance to IU is not a god given right.  

IU is funded by tax $. For them to mandate a vaccine, discriminates against those who choose not to get one for whatever religious, political, or other reason. if 20% of the people in the state choose not to get the vaccine, that group is being unfairly punished. 

[HoosierFaithful]

I see your point, and you are a logical and fair poster, I just don't agree with you.  I fall much more in line with 5fouls' thinking.

[5fouls]

49 minutes ago, Reacher said:

IU is funded by tax $. 

So is every public school in the country.  Should those schools allow children that have not been vaccinated against measles, polio, etc.?

[Reacher]

19 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

So is every public school in the country.  Should those schools allow children that have not been vaccinated against measles, polio, etc.?

Last I checked, that did not make up such a large % of the population. I'm not in favor of disenfranchising 1% but 20-30% is another story. 

[Seeking6]

People can find it themselves and form own opinion but Todd Rokita released his opinion on IU and others i.e. vaccine. Again it's in the words. Here's a cut/paste. Should be a fun summer for these folks and word splicing. 

Attorney General Rokita notes that while HEA 1405 prohibits public universities from requiring proof of the COVID-19 vaccine, it does not prohibit them from requiring the vaccination itself.

[btownqb]

52 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I see your point, and you are a logical and fair poster, I just don't agree with you.  I fall much more in line with 5fouls' thinking.

Well 😛 to you too 🤣🤣

[btownqb]

What's really nice.. 

We all have a fairly close opinion.. that makes up 98% of the US. The other 2% (one on each side) are the ones with the voices. It's unfortunate. 

I think its fairly easy to see what side of the aisle I vote for, but it's simply an economic thing.. (mostly) and I can understand stand why people vote the opposite, and I respect that (or honestly try). That's simply life and perfectly fine by me. Good people here. Go Hoosiers. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by btownqb