Hoosierhoopster

1 hour ago, rico said:

Yes he did....and lots of it.  

And Bird later admitted Magic was better. That was a great two - battle though 

38 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Oh you don’t have to convince me how much of a freak Lebron is.  I bought into the “Lebron isn’t a winner” argument for a while, but that went out the window when he beat that Warriors team after being down 3-1.  Honestly though, what he’s been doing over the course of the playoffs this year might be even more impressive.  To be this dominant at the age of 33, with the amount of minutes he’s played in his career, is absolutely mind boggling.  As for Kobe, I don’t think he comes anywhere close to Lebron.

Kobe was great for sure but I don’t place home top 5. He was knocked out by Nash’s Suns and couldn’t win after Shaq until they brought in a then star level Gasol. His competitiveness and killer instinct is right there with MJ, but I don’t put him at the same level as MJ, LBJ, or Magic. Top 10 or so for me, which has to include Duncan, maybe the best power forward ever. Bird for me is somewhere around top 5.

Kareem and Bill Russell have to be in the mix 

4 minutes ago, ADegenerate said:

@KoB2011 @FW_Hoosier @Hoosierhoopster

I also watched Jordan live a few times and saw both. Lebron is already the goat for me. Is it kind of impossible to debate? Maybe/kinda. For me Lebron is the best. I feel like people aged 30-40 are the ‘best judges’ because they grew up as Jordan kids and have seen the league in both eras. 

People want to talk about 6-0. How about 6-7 in elimination games. ‘Take that for data!’

Haha I was literally just thinking of that Take that for data! press conference 

Wherever you come down, I think at this point LeBron is undoubtedly top 5 and really at least top 3. 

It’s the impossible era debate, just imagine seeing MJ against LeBron, now that would be cool. I’ve seen both live, and Magic, all 3 we’re simply incredible. No one could stop MJ — once he got past the Pistons — but MJ never had to carry a team like the Verajo Cavs to the Finals, MJ never beat a team as good as that GS team in the Finals, back from 3-1 down, but MJ has 6 rings and was unstoppable leading those Bulls’ teams. His killer instinct was second to none,. It’s an impossible debate, and i’m Leaving out a couple of the obvious challengers 

40 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

He started 66 games on a playoff team as a rookie. He wasn't great but let's not act like it wasn't obvious he was going to be a quality NBA player. 

I never said he wasn't going to be a quality player, I said he had a bad season. Maybe "bad" is overstated, but he at most underwhelmed. Yes, he was a rookie, no he did not demonstrate anywhere near the level of play that he brought to the Pacers. That's the point, he did much better than anyone expected him to.

6 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

It's not an indictment of PG. The only way in retrospect that the trade looks good for OKC is if they went deep this year. They traded for a one-year rental, it didn't work out. It's like when an MLB team mortgages their farm system to win now and then doesn't.

That's a completely fair take, I just see it differently -- it ignores that the Thunder lost Roberson.

OKC was playing fantastic ball when Roberson went down, they adjusted afterwards, were decent, but dropped from a top 3 or so defensive team to something like top 15, and PG had to shift back to playing extra D on every possession. 

The P's didn't have those issues. When Vic wasn't on the floor though, they lost - which says a great deal about Vic's contribution, but also reflects that they're no near as good without him.

Just now, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

The Thunder only got one year of PG and a first round exit, so I would say no.

Not a good way to measure it. Same problem Vic had playing next to Westbrook. Westbrook took what, something like 40 shots in that last loss, and of course the Thunder play in the West. It turned out a good trade both ways, a good thing.

2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

So, we can call the trade 'equal'.....well, except for that little Domantis Sabonis thing.  

Definitely the way it worked out, which is great considering how bad Sabonid was the prior season. 🤡

EJ was fantastic.

lol Draymod  way to lose the ball 

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

Absolutely, the situation you get drafted into plays a huge part in a players development. 

There's nothing like the TD Garden in the NBA. Actually a lot of similarities between IU fans and Celtics fans in terms of knowledge, support, etc. JJ Redick recently said Game 5 in Boston is the loudest arena he's ever played in, and this is a guy that played in 8 Duke-UNC games. 

Yeah funny you say that, after years of Rockets games I had forgotten what real basketball fans sound like - refreshing 

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

Definitely exciting times to be a C's fan! On Tatum, I think he'd be great NBA player no matter where he went, but do agree that being in such a stable org with such a great coach and some vets around him has definitely helped his growth and probably raises his ceiling. 

Yes I don't mean to say I don't think he'd be really good, or maybe great, wherever, kid has some crazy skills, but if you put him in Atlanta, or on the Knicks (God forbid), I doubt he'd be anywhere near where he is now. Right environment, system, coach makes a big difference.

And yeah, must be nice to be a C's fan, lol. Btw, I went to the game against Chicago towards the end of the season, as I was in Boston and my high schooler really wanted to see a game. What a crowd. Playing against the lowly Bulls in a meaningless game, the arena was close to full and loud and supportive the full game. 

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

Kinda funny seeing Vic on the 3rd team with PG.

Kind of cuts against the cutdowns of PG, lol.

Kidding aside, those defensive team picks were a joke. Even Gobert -- clearly one of the best defenders in the League, but he played only 50-some games. You should not get an award when you're not on the floor for a big part of the season, just silly. Same clearly goes for Butler (59 games). PG played/started in 79 this season.

4 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Haha, HH, you're actually pretty accurate, I have been nursing a hangover all morning :).

On the Celtics roster situation one thing people quite often forget is that their starting lineup on opening night was Irving, Brown, Tatum, Hayward, Horford. So while nobody knew Tatum would be THIS good so soon, the plan has definitely been to play all three wings together. 

Ha! I knew it!

And you're right, I didn't remember that, that's pretty encouraging for your team. Amazing that they've developed this quickly to this level.

So argumentative!

the timing is the point - these guys are rookies, of course there was hope that they would develop into key pieces down the road, but no one saw this happening immediately and of course they’re going to have to figure this out

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

Disagree, none of the contract situations have changed. They drafted Tatum knowing they had him long-term and still signed Hayward long-term. Maybe they didn't know this would the situation this quickly, but they absolutely planned/hoped on all three of them being studs. Further, there's almost no way Hayward gets moved coming off of that injury. They'd never get close to market value for him. 

One of those three will likely be coming off the bench, but they'll all play 30+ minutes and be on the floor at the end of games. 

Hmm, two guys headlining the C's run to the Finals and then one just goes to the bench. This is a Stevens' team and doubt he'd have trouble making it work, he has all the (well earned) respect of his team, but your thinking is a bit set in stone here, imo. These guys are flat out studs at this point, they are absolutely headliners, moving one to the bench can make that team really, really deep (e.g., Pop's use of Ginobli), but this was not contemplated, no way, not this soon, and doubt you'd find any Celtic front office guy who says it was.

59 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I don't think it's hard at all to imagine the Celts running out this lineup to close games next year;

Kyrie

Brown

Hayward

Tatum

Horford

 

 

Oh I agree, but Tatum and Brown are now clearly starters and where Hayward fits in long term is now minimally less certain. There is a duplication of positions. No one thought Tatum and Brown would be this good this soon, but now, well, they are. Can't just disregard that, and if Boston's front office has done one thing clearly, it's build on players they like for the long-term going forward, like how they moved Thomas, etc. I just think there are some real questions here that Boston / Ainge are going to be wrestling with. Rozier is almost certain to get traded, for starters. Contract rights of course are going to impact all of this and of course Hayward has his, but this uber development of Tatum and Brown, really forced by Hayward's injury, raises real questions.

Gleas must be sleeping off his post-game celebrations....

Was listening to NBA radio driving in today and they commented that Tatum is 41 points away from becoming the leading rookie scorer, all time, in the playoffs. Of course there are more playoff games now and he's not about to be #1 in average scoring in the playoffs, but it's still really impressive.

It's an interesting development in today's NBA, where you have Mitchell in Utah and Tatum and Brown in Boston playing at All Star levels, as rookies, leading their teams into the playoffs and in Tatum and Brown's case possibly (at this point probably) to the Finals.

One question I had, is how much of how good Tatum and Brown look is that they're playing for Stevens in his system? This is not to take away from how good these young players are, but I Thomas was in the MVP discussion in Stevens' system, after being a complimentary piece before Boston and now (certainly at least partly due to injury) is an afterthought. Mitchell's a different cat, imo, he is a flat out dominant player as a rookie. But Tatum is freaking good, and Brown is outstanding, I'm just wondering how good they really are. Are we seeing guys who are both going to be 5+ time All Stars and in the discussion for League MVP, are they going to be the face of Boston like a Paul Pierce? I can't tell, if they were playing for the T-Wolves or Phoenix would they be this good? 

Flip to all this, and this is probably directed to Gleas, where does this put Hayward next year? Might he be traded? 

Gleas is waxing eloquent somewhere 

2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Where is PG? 

Seriously, cheated. Butler? He wasn't even on the floor for multiple weeks. You can look up PG's numbers, but I know you're more interested in tarring him lol

He shoved CP3 and then went over the back. It’s clear on the replay. That said with .5 seconds at the end of a playoff game with the foul being called on the team that took the shot? Riiiight

5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

It doesn't matter, but the game should be over. Terrible call to not end the game. 

It was a great call by the home ref crew, if you’re a GS fan.... 

Hahaha Rockets just shut up GS on  the road came back from 12 down in the 4th.

let’s hear you flap your mouth now Draymond 

50 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I agree. The way he stretches the defenses is unreal. Not just with his range, but his constant motion. He puts all 5 defenders on edge when he is on the floor. 

I liked how he stretched the floor when Hibbert threw him to the floor.

10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Will be interesting to see what Philly does with their max slot. Of course everyone is also hyping them going after LeBron. The decision they need to make is, do they want to go "championship or bust" or do they want to build and add pieces around Simmons and Embiid. To me, if they go after LeBron they're saying they want titles now and are willing to potentially compromise Simmons' development to do it. Both LeBron and Simmons are essentially point forwards and both need the ball. 

George, especially after his time in OKC is probably better suited to play off of Simmons. 

Agree, I don't think they really have a shot at LBJ, and Simmons would be out in that kind of a deal. Especially given LBJ's age and how patient Philly was in building that team, I don't see it happening. PG though would be perfect, an elite two-way player who can score off ball from the wing, and at 28 has multiple years left.

46 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Agreed, a team he can play third or even fourth fiddle if Fultz develops is perfect for him. 

 

haha