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How dirty programs celebrate their history

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dgambill

dgambill

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Maybe my memory is going bad but wasn't it vacated for lack of institutional control around stripper-gate etc. It wasn't until after that they got caught trying to buy recruits. I haven't seen NC or Kansas give up any of their banners so I say more power to them. No matter what happened the kid played hard and earned his honors so I say let him have his day.

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FKIM01

FKIM01

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53 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Maybe my memory is going bad but wasn't it vacated for lack of institutional control around stripper-gate etc. It wasn't until after that they got caught trying to buy recruits. I haven't seen NC or Kansas give up any of their banners so I say more power to them. No matter what happened the kid played hard and earned his honors so I say let him have his day.

If Kansas or NC had titles vacated, I don't think those banners should be displayed either.  Louisville ought to be ashamed displaying banners where such blatant cheating was used to amass talent.  Of course, I really don't expect them to show any shame, but no...I don't agree with displaying vacated title banners.

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dgambill

dgambill

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16 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

If Kansas or NC had titles vacated, I don't think those banners should be displayed either.  Louisville ought to be ashamed displaying banners where such blatant cheating was used to amass talent.  Of course, I really don't expect them to show any shame, but no...I don't agree with displaying vacated title banners.

I agree...sorta...the fact is the NCAA arbitrarily decides whose violations matter and whose does not. UL had their NC stripped because a donor hired strippers to mess around with the ball players. The kids themselves didn't get paid for play etc. We've seen much worse imo program control in North Carolina with the student cheating scandals and at KU where they have evidence they have been paying players. Anyways, it's disgusting...but I hardly think UL deserved to have their NC taken away. The kids played the game out on the court...and won....beat all comers....the Smith and Siva kid had an incredible season leading them to that championship. I think they deserve to be honored for their play. Strippers or not.

Edited by dgambill
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kyhoosier29

kyhoosier29

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1 hour ago, dgambill said:

I agree...sorta...the fact is the NCAA arbitrarily decides whose violations matter and whose does not. UL had their NC stripped because a donor hired strippers to mess around with the ball players. The kids themselves didn't get paid for play etc. We've seen much worse imo program control in North Carolina with the student cheating scandals and at KU where they have evidence they have been paying players. Anyways, it's disgusting...but I hardly think UL deserved to have their NC taken away. The kids played the game out on the court...and won....beat all comers....the Smith and Siva kid had an incredible season leading them to that championship. I think they deserve to be honored for their play. Strippers or not.

I think the vacating was a result of the NCAA ruling that providing strippers for players was a recruiting advantage. How long did it go on? Did they get recruits after that started/ as a result? If it happened one season for current players only I could see your point. But I could also argue, these players should have known they were committing violations. I sat in many of compliance meetings and the do’s and dont’s are pretty clear. I mean you don’t have to sit in a compliance meeting anyway to realize that’s probably not a good idea. With that said, the NCAA is a joke, and yes way worse things have happened without punishment. But not sure I agree or not on Louisville without more info. And that info may be out there. I just haven’t seen it. 

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FKIM01

FKIM01

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If for no other reason than these kids knew they were playing for a dirty program and that tactics well outside of the rules were used to assemble the team,  I'd say they have no right to be honored for their participation in such a disgusting program. 

... and it was way worse than a donor buying strippers. It was an assistant coach paying for prostitutes. Who's to say those players weren't paid? Brian Bowen sure was.

Not saying other programs shouldn't be punished, but I can't see that justifying honoring a crooked program like Louisville. 

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dgambill

dgambill

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44 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

If for no other reason than these kids knew they were playing for a dirty program and that tactics well outside of the rules were used to assemble the team,  I'd say they have no right to be honored for their participation in such a disgusting program. 

... and it was way worse than a donor buying strippers. It was an assistant coach paying for prostitutes. Who's to say those players weren't paid? Brian Bowen sure was.

Not saying other programs shouldn't be punished, but I can't see that justifying honoring a crooked program like Louisville. 

I'm not sure how aware 18 year old kids are what benefits are allowed or not when it comes to that kind of stuff on a college campus lol. I'm sure they knew it was wrong...pretty sure most kids that age don't really care. All I know is you go south of the mason dixon line and ALL  COLLEGE RECRUITING takes on a WHOLE DIFFERENT VIBE. I know UL isn't SEC but they sure act like it...and SEC land plays by a WHOLE different set of rules than the NCAA and B1G nation.

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kyhoosier29

kyhoosier29

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6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I'm not sure how aware 18 year old kids are what benefits are allowed or not when it comes to that kind of stuff on a college campus lol. I'm sure they knew it was wrong...pretty sure most kids that age don't really care. All I know is you go south of the mason dixon line and ALL  COLLEGE RECRUITING takes on a WHOLE DIFFERENT VIBE. I know UL isn't SEC but they sure act like it...and SEC land plays by a WHOLE different set of rules than the NCAA and B1G nation.

Trust me, they knew better from the compliance meetings I spoke of. At that time, if you were receiving a benefit that the normal person has to pay for, it’s a violation. 

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dgambill

dgambill

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10 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Trust me, they knew better from the compliance meetings I spoke of. At that time, if you were receiving a benefit that the normal person has to pay for, it’s a violation. 

These kids get benefits 99% of college kids do not. Nothing about them is "normal"....and if the meetings are anything like any compliance meetings I've ever been in....I'm sure they were on their phone texting while it was happening much like my co-workers I have to remind/fix all the time when they do stuff out of compliance. Not making an excuse...I just don't think in the dirty world of NCAA basketball...UL was quite so different than most...they just got caught...and they weren't Duke/NC/UK/KU.

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5fouls

5fouls

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From a 'collegiate' standpoint, academic fraud is infinitely worse than strippers/prostitutes.  Take the sleaze factor out of it and I can't see how anyone would think that stripper-gate provides a greater advantage to an athletic program than the widespread academic fraud that went on at UNC.  UL getting their title stripped while UNC didn't even go on probation is hypocrisy at its worst by the NCAA.   

Add in the fact that Pitino is still allowed to coach in the NCAA and the NCAA vacating the championship is even more ridiculous.  if you're going to pinish, punish, but make it consistent.   

Edited by 5fouls
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rico

rico

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20 hours ago, 5fouls said:

From a 'collegiate' standpoint, academic fraud is infinitely worse than strippers/prostitutes.  Take the sleaze factor out of it and I can't see how anyone would think that stripper-gate provides a greater advantage to an athletic program than the widespread academic fraud that went on at UNC.  UL getting their title stripped while UNC didn't even go on probation is hypocrisy at its worst by the NCAA.   

Add in the fact that Pitino is still allowed to coach in the NCAA and the NCAA vacating the championship is even more ridiculous.  if you're going to pinish, punish, but make it consistent.   

You left out Duke's athlete "housing" funding.

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IU878176

IU878176

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23 hours ago, 5fouls said:

From a 'collegiate' standpoint, academic fraud is infinitely worse than strippers/prostitutes.  Take the sleaze factor out of it and I can't see how anyone would think that stripper-gate provides a greater advantage to an athletic program than the widespread academic fraud that went on at UNC.  UL getting their title stripped while UNC didn't even go on probation is hypocrisy at its worst by the NCAA.   

Add in the fact that Pitino is still allowed to coach in the NCAA and the NCAA vacating the championship is even more ridiculous.  if you're going to pinish, punish, but make it consistent.   

UNC should have received the death penalty. Instead they went to the final game of the tourney. NCAA “enforcement” is an inconsistent joke.

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