Wisconsin Post Game

[KoB2011]

Just now, tdhoosier said:

XJ, Kopp, Stewart and Durr > Franklin, Hunter, Al and Brunk (who didn't even play last year).

.....I don't even think it's close.  

 

Oh I think it's pretty close. Al and Hunter are both key players on really good teams. Franklin starts for Virginia..... Brunk and Durr..... who cares? 

[rico]

13 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

There's a big difference in coming in late and settling for guys you can get and hope will help vs recruiting/landing guys (over years) that fit the system you want in place.

And for the record, I'm a Reds fan so there is never any hope 😄

The Reds and IU basketball go hand in hand.  

[Hoosier51]

Just now, tdhoosier said:

XJ, Kopp, Stewart and Durr > Franklin, Hunter, Al and Brunk (who didn't even play last year).

.....I don't even think it's close.  

 

Also Trayce, Race, Jordan and Trey have all improved so yeah the talent is definitely better on the team this season.

[IUFLA]

2 hours ago, IUJoe said:

Would we have won less games with Miller this year?  Well, TJD wouldn’t be here, so I’d say yes.  Much, much less.

How do you know that with any degree of certainty? 

According to this article, he was "wait and see"  after the firing, but no clue as to what he would have done if CAM had been retained 

[Steubenhoosier]

Perspective seems to get lost in the heat of the moment. Passions run high. Things get said that sometimes are regretted.

Any talk about CMW not being the right guy for the job is way premature, Imo. As is all the discussion that IU will always be stuck in mediocrity. Any illusions that this was going to be a breakout season, especially after the last 4 years, was pie in the sky thinking.

For some perspective, here are the first season records of some of the coaches who are frequently mentioned on this site:

Brad Underwood at Illinois—14-18

Bruce Pearl at Auburn—15-20 and even worse his second season 

Defending National Champion Scott Drew at Baylor—8-21

Chris Beard at Texas Tech—18-14

Juwan Howard at Michigan—19-12

Are there examples of guys who excelled immediately, sure. Chris Holtmann comes to mind. I would posit that none of the above examples took over a team facing the combination of glaring holes in the roster combined with playing in a monster conference.Mike Woodson has not lost the ability to evaluate talent. From everything I have heard, players have raved about his ability to get the most of their talent. He obviously has things like substitution patterns to improve on. Yet to be determined if he can get us where we all want, but anyone who claims we haven’t improved from the previous years is wrong, Imo.

Bottom line is that there’s a lot more to get me stressed out than how IU plays. Not going to get upset with anything that happens in year one.

 

[Billingsley99]

24 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

There's a big difference in coming in late and settling for guys you can get and hope will help vs recruiting/landing guys (over years) that fit the system you want in place.

And for the record, I'm a Reds fan so there is never any hope 😄

I am a Reds fan as well so I get your pain. I just feel that every year we say that. Just wait until ______________ gets on campus etc... 

[5fouls]

27 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

There's a big difference in coming in late and settling for guys you can get and hope will help vs recruiting/landing guys (over years) that fit the system you want in place.

And for the record, I'm a Reds fan so there is never any hope 😄

The Reds are currently tied for first.

[Artesian_86]

46 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

I totally believe that:

1.  Woodson knows what type of players and roster he nneds to play the way he desires.

2. The current roster isn't capable of it in terms of individual skills and overall composition.

The big question is how, and how fast, he can get there.

JMHO but probably half the current roster are players that will never be significant contributors.

We need shooters, scorers and a mentally tough & skilled PG.

Here’s and something to think about. For example, over the past several decades we haven’t consistently been able to beat the likes of Ohio St. and Michigan State. Coach Matta’s Buckeye teams were loaded with talent and had the wins to prove it. Dane Fife was with Michigan State for 10 years and had his hand in recruiting  and coaching top talent for the Spartans. Both have been consistent,  winning programs all while IU has spent over 20+ years trying to find it’s way back. 
The point of my post is this,…..”We couldn’t beat ‘em so we brought ‘em to IU.” This entire coaching staff has been part of successful programs for years. When are the players in question going to take full responsibility for their constant shortcomings and get better? How much extra work do “some of these kids” put in on their own, outside of practice, shooting free throws, 3 pointers,  jump shots etc.? I’m not trying to single any player out, but there comes a time when a coach has encouraged, inspired, motivated and shown a player what needs to happen. It’s then on the player to dig within himself to find and produce those results if he wants it bad enough. 
 

[kyhoosier29]

32 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Sure..... but I don't think you can say that in Year 1. The reality is our results are a big step up from last year even if it's not where we want it. If we continue going up and to the right in Year 2, and then in Year 3, things will be fine. The issue becomes when we stop going up and to the right, where are we? 

Are they though? Our schedule is considerably weaker and we def have a better team. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not pushing for CMW to lose his job, but I’m not sure CAM does any worse with this roster. CAM wouldn’t have gotten this roster, so it’s better from that standpoint. But to desire more or have expected more from CMW doesn’t make some of us crazy IMO. The roster DOES have limitations and I’m hopeful he’s on the right path to fix it, but at the same time he constantly has questionable lineups in a game (like last night) that just kills us for prolonged periods. He’s definitely got growing pains going on (or at least I just hope that’s what they are). 

[btownqb]

39 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

XJ, Kopp, Stewart and Durr > Franklin, Hunter, Al and Brunk (who didn't even play last year).

.....I don't even think it's close.  

 

Agree to disagree on close, but I do think you're right on those 4. BUT.. 

Franklin+Durham > XJ and whoever #2 is on that list 

No doubt-- whoever #3 is + Durr > Hunter and Brunk. 100% agree.  

But, those are role player postions for our roster. If you could just flip flop MK/PS one of them, for AF/AD.. yeah, we'd be in a better spot. 

XJ, TJD, Franklin, and RT playing 32mpg sounds significantly better then what we have seen. Right? 

Idk, this roster was never perfect. Franklin was a blow. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by btownqb

[IUFLA]

15 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Oh I think it's pretty close. Al and Hunter are both key players on really good teams. Franklin starts for Virginia..... Brunk and Durr..... who cares? 

I think it's closer than some think too...And who knows what Coach Woody could have squeezed out of those players...

[5fouls]

2 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

How much extra work do “some of these kids” put in on their own, outside of practice, shooting free throws, 3 pointers,  jump shots etc.? I’m not trying to single any player out, but there comes a time when a coach has encouraged, inspired, motivated and shown a player what needs to happen. It’s then on the player to dig within himself to find and produce those results if he wants it bad enough. 
 

Maybe they were at the gym when they broke curfew.

[btownqb]

15 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

Also Trayce, Race, Jordan and Trey have all improved so yeah the talent is definitely better on the team this season.

And the staff should get credit for that. 

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I think it's closer than some think too...And who knows what Coach Woody could have squeezed out of those players...

I think we all saw Parker Stewart's big numbers in a minor conference and got excited; it's understandable, but that dude is not as good as Al or Armaan. He's a better shooter, but they're both better playmakers and better scorers.

[btownqb]

Just now, Hoosier51 said:

Or maybe the players with experience

What?

[Hoosier51]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

What?

The players gaining experience and improving themselves also has something to do with it.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Hoosier51

[SawatchHoosier]

Thought I would show how weird last nights game was...

So far there have been approximately 9500 D1 college basketball games this season. Last night Wisconsin attempted 29 free throws. So far only 602 or 6% of games this year have involved a team(s) attempting 29 or more free throws. 
Of the those 602 games 394 of them had +11 net free throw attempts between the teams playing. Teams that attempted 29 or more free throws and took 11 or more free throws than the opponent won 87% of those games. 

Another fun little stat is net personal fouls. Of the 9500 or so games played this season only 409 games have had a foul differential of 9 or more. Only 4% of games played this year have had a foul difference of +9 or more. Holy crap. 

Wisconsin has been in 4 games this year with a free throw attempt differential of +11, 3 games with a foul differential of +9 and 1 game with both. Obviously, Wisconsin won all of those games. 

Indiana this year has played in two games where the opponent has shot 29 or more free throws. The other game against Syracuse doesn't really count since that was a double overt time game. Twice this year Indiana has shot 11 or more less free throws than the opponent. The other game was against Louisiana. 

Additionally, there has only been 1 game this season that Indiana has out fouled another team by 9 or more. Last night was a statistical anomaly. Indiana either played horrible defense and deserve the foul calls or something else happened and you all know what I'm talking about. 

Simply put Indiana doesn't have the offensive talent to deal with the free throw differential and foul differential they had last night. I'm not sure many teams could've won last night being called for 9+ more fouls and taking 11 less free throws. 

Give Gard some credit though. Once he sees refs are gonna call the $#@% out of the opponent he makes that his game plan. Is it a game-plan for winning, yes, does it exemplify all the worst aspects of BIG Ten basketball, yes. 

Honestly, the fact Indiana lost by 5, had a chance to win and take the game into overtime is minor miracle. F$%^ Archie for not recruiting one wing player, F$%^ the refs and F$%^ Greg Gard for playing ref ball and helping murder whatever is left of BIG TEN basketball. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by SawatchHoosier

[IowaHoosierFan]

I didn't watch the game.  I chose to do something else.  I hope we win the next game.

[Proud2BAHoosier]

5 hours ago, Btownstrength said:

I recently had to do the same. Stopped watching games live. I record and might watch if we win, and definitely dont if we lose. I hate that I have to, but it's so much better for health. 

I know what you're talking about....  🙄

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

Thought I would show how weird last nights game was...

So far there have been approximately 9500 D1 college basketball games this season. Last night Wisconsin attempted 29 free throws. So far only 602 or 6% of games this year have involved a team(s) attempting 29 or more free throws. 
Of the those 602 games 394 of them had +11 net free throw attempts between the teams playing. Teams that attempted 29 or more free throws and took 11 or more free throws than the opponent won 87% of those games. 

Another fun little stat is net personal fouls. Of the 9500 or so games played this season only 409 games have had a foul differential of 9 or more. Only 4% of games played this year have had a foul difference of +9 or more. Holy crap. 

Wisconsin has been in 4 games this year with a free throw attempt differential of +11, 3 games with a foul differential of +9 and 1 game with both. Obviously, Wisconsin won all of those games. 

Indiana this year has played in two games where the opponent has shot 29 or more free throws. The other game against Syracuse doesn't really count since that was a double overt time game. Twice this year Indiana has shot 11 or more less free throws than the opponent. The other game was against Louisiana. 

Additionally, there has only been 1 game this season that Indiana has out fouled another team by 9 or more. 

Simply put Indiana doesn't have the offensive talent to deal with the free throw differential and foul differential they had last night. I'm not sure many teams could've won last night being called for 9+ more fouls and taking 11 less free throws. 

Give Gard some credit though. Once he sees refs are gonna call the $#@% out of the opponent he makes that his game plan. Is it a game-plan for winning, yes, does it exemplify all the worst aspects of BIG Ten basketball, yes. 

Honestly, the fact Indiana lost by 5, had a chance to win and take the game into overtime is minor miracle. F$%^ Archie for not recruiting one wing player, F$%^ the refs and F$%^ Greg Gard for playing ref ball and helping murder whatever is left of BIG TEN basketball. 

To me this all begs the question, should TJD have been more selfish and tried to battle through the scrum in the lane trying to get a shot off and/or hoping for a foul call? The refs seemed to let a lot go on the inside, but his kicking it out to open...uh,..."shooters" didn't do us a lot of good...

To his credit, in his post game, Trayce said the kick out to XJ he'd do every time because he believed in him...

[Artesian_86]

Just now, 5fouls said:

Maybe they were at the gym when they broke curfew.

I know your trying to be funny, but it's a perfect example to how devoted and invested certain players to IU, the coaching staff, the players and the fans. If I'm an IU player, I don't want to disappoint any of them, so I put in the work needed. Those kind of players are called "gym rats". You can't keep them out! They're also the type of players you hate to play against and wish you had on your team. We don't have a Brad Davidson type player on our team and haven't for decades......

[Hoosier51]

6 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I didn't watch the game.  I chose to do something else.  I hope we win the next game.

It was frustrating, at times the Hoosiers looked good, but when the full bench subs came in they didn't look so good. The last couple of minutes they looked like a rec league team.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Hoosier51

[FritzIam4IU]

11 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

Thought I would show how weird last nights game was...

So far there have been approximately 9500 D1 college basketball games this season. Last night Wisconsin attempted 29 free throws. So far only 602 or 6% of games this year have involved a team(s) attempting 29 or more free throws. 
Of the those 602 games 394 of them had +11 net free throw attempts between the teams playing. Teams that attempted 29 or more free throws and took 11 or more free throws than the opponent won 87% of those games. 

Another fun little stat is net personal fouls. Of the 9500 or so games played this season only 409 games have had a foul differential of 9 or more. Only 4% of games played this year have had a foul difference of +9 or more. Holy crap. 

Wisconsin has been in 4 games this year with a free throw attempt differential of +11, 3 games with a foul differential of +9 and 1 game with both. Obviously, Wisconsin won all of those games. 

Indiana this year has played in two games where the opponent has shot 29 or more free throws. The other game against Syracuse doesn't really count since that was a double overt time game. Twice this year Indiana has shot 11 or more less free throws than the opponent. The other game was against Louisiana. 

Additionally, there has only been 1 game this season that Indiana has out fouled another team by 9 or more. 

Simply put Indiana doesn't have the offensive talent to deal with the free throw differential and foul differential they had last night. I'm not sure many teams could've won last night being called for 9+ more fouls and taking 11 less free throws. 

Give Gard some credit though. Once he sees refs are gonna call the $#@% out of the opponent he makes that his game plan. Is it a game-plan for winning, yes, does it exemplify all the worst aspects of BIG Ten basketball, yes. 

Honestly, the fact Indiana lost by 5, had a chance to win and take the game into overtime is minor miracle. F$%^ Archie for not recruiting one wing player, F$%^ the refs and F$%^ Greg Gard for playing ref ball and helping murder whatever is left of BIG TEN basketball. 

[IU Scott]

16 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think we all saw Parker Stewart's big numbers in a minor conference and got excited; it's understandable, but that dude is not as good as Al or Armaan. He's a better shooter, but they're both better playmakers and better scorers.

He averaged 10 ppg as a freshman in the ACC

[AxnJxn]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

To me this all begs the question, should TJD have been more selfish and tried to battle through the scrum in the lane trying to get a shot off and/or hoping for a foul call? The refs seemed to let a lot go on the inside, but his kicking it out to open...uh,..."shooters" didn't do us a lot of good...

To his credit, in his post game, Trayce said the kick out to XJ he'd do every time because he believed in him...

I mean, XJ had an absolutely wide open 3 and just missed it. I don't really think you could ask for a better shot in that situation, unless you change the shooter to PS or MK or something. Your options there are XJ shooting a wide open 3 or TJD (possibly) going to the line. Pick your poison.