btownqb Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Okay, it's not one of the main things they look at. I guess it has "some" baring, but it won't be the reason we aren't a 3 seed. This article gives a good breakdown: Most important Games by quadrant, listing results and upcoming games Records by quadrant, away and neutral Non-Conference Strength of Schedule (SOS) Overall SOS Overall road and neutral records Non-Division I losses Some value Average NET win and loss Overall record Non-Conference record, road record Not nothing, but not very important NET and other computer rankings Overall home records, non-conference and by quadrant Game scoring margins Not criteria Conference records and standings AP Top 25, Coaches Poll Tournament history There is also this article that discusses injuries and other factors (playing MSU first home game after shooting). So yeah, I am much more concerned about the "most important" factors than I am our overall record, especially since we are a textbook definition of the injuries impacting our overall record. If we just win Sunday, find a bye... win 2+ games in the BTT that trumps ILL moving to a Q1 win.....in regards to a 3 seed. I want that too. Heck that is 2-1 or 3-0 in neutral court games in one weekend alone. I'm rooting for Michigan tonight. I don't really see a path for ILL to end up a Q1 anyways. A win tonight won't do it, and I don't think they win Sunday. Edited March 2, 2023 by btownqb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 minute ago, btownqb said: If we just win Sunday, find a bye... win 2+ games in the BTT that trumps ILL moving to a Q1 win.....in regards to a 3 seed. I want that too. Heck that is 2-1 or 3-0 in neutral court games in one weekend alone. I'm rooting for Michigan tonight. If history tells us anything conference tournaments don't have the impact you're giving them. We see it every single year that those games aren't weighed the same because they've largely made up their brackets prior to tournaments being completed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: If history tells us anything conference tournaments don't have the impact you're giving them. We see it every single year that those games aren't weighed the same because they've largely made up their brackets prior to tournaments being completed. At this point, wouldn't winning all remaining games ensure the highest NCAA seed? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 Just now, KoB2011 said: If history tells us anything conference tournaments don't have the impact you're giving them. We see it every single year that those games aren't weighed the same because they've largely made up their brackets prior to tournaments being completed. Conference tournaments don’t mean squat imo and only wear teams down and risk injury for the one that really matters. The NCAA tournament. Just my opinion. Never have been a fan of the conference tournaments. Lose out in the first round and get ready for the big one. We are in the B1G and most folks and even recruits and their families have no idea who won the conference tournaments abroad. They all know and remember the NCAA tournament. To me, you prepare all season for the big one. The Super Bowl of college basketball. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: At this point, wouldn't winning all remaining games ensure the highest NCAA seed? Regular season games, yes. Conference tournament historically has not really moved the needle. Frankly, unless they move tournament finals or selection announcements that is what we want as a Big Ten team, because we'd be getting the short end of the stick as one of the only conferences that wraps up on Sunday (and we are RIGHT before selection announcements). The best thing for our NCAA seeding is 1) beat Michigan and 2) Rutgers, Michigan State, and Illinois finding their way into the top 30 in NET prior to like Thursday next week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Regular season games, yes. Conference tournament historically has not really moved the needle. Frankly, unless they move tournament finals or selection announcements that is what we want as a Big Ten team, because we'd be getting the short end of the stick as one of the only conferences that wraps up on Sunday (and we are RIGHT before selection announcements). The best thing for our NCAA seeding is 1) beat Michigan and 2) Rutgers, Michigan State, and Illinois finding their way into the top 30 in NET prior to like Thursday next week. I don't think #2 is true... I would hope the committee would be smart enough to see that those are still good wins, and then go win 3-4 games in a row and end up 24-11 or 25-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 19 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: If history tells us anything conference tournaments don't have the impact you're giving them. We see it every single year that those games aren't weighed the same because they've largely made up their brackets prior to tournaments being completed. So we won't end up a 3 seed if we win out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 Cannot understand the dislike for the conference tourney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 7 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Regular season games, yes. Conference tournament historically has not really moved the needle. Frankly, unless they move tournament finals or selection announcements that is what we want as a Big Ten team, because we'd be getting the short end of the stick as one of the only conferences that wraps up on Sunday (and we are RIGHT before selection announcements). The best thing for our NCAA seeding is 1) beat Michigan and 2) Rutgers, Michigan State, and Illinois finding their way into the top 30 in NET prior to like Thursday next week. What is a Quadrant 1 win? Home games vs. opponents with NET ranking of 1-30Neutral games vs. opponents with NET ranking of 1-50 Away games vs. opponents with NET ranking of 1-75 In the BTT as it stands, we could rack up Quad 1 wins vs... Current Net Ranking 5 Purdue 25 Maryland 31 Michigan St. 32 Rutgers 33 Iowa 36 Illinois 46 Northwestern That's a possible 3 Quad 1 wins, no? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 minute ago, btownqb said: I don't think #2 is true... I would hope the committee would be smart enough to see that those are still good wins, and then go win 3-4 games in a row and end up 24-11 or 25-10. We can agree to disagree if you think they are weighing those games. Beyond the historical precedent (including us last season, where some people had moved us as high as a 10 and we were in the play-in game), logistically it doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 minute ago, btownqb said: Cannot understand the dislike for the conference tourney. Is it a dislike or a don't care? It doesn't decide the conference champion and it doesn't really impact seeding. Would it be nice to win? Sure, of course. In terms of priorities in March it's bottom tier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: Is it a dislike or a don't care? It doesn't decide the conference champion and it doesn't really impact seeding. Would it be nice to win? Sure, of course. In terms of priorities in March it's bottom tier. That wasn't directed at you, but it's not bottom tier in regards to Indiana this season, just like last year..... win the BTT you're a 3 seed. Without the run we had last year... we aren't in. Edited March 2, 2023 by btownqb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: What is a Quadrant 1 win? Home games vs. opponents with NET ranking of 1-30Neutral games vs. opponents with NET ranking of 1-50 Away games vs. opponents with NET ranking of 1-75 In the BTT as it stands, we could rack up Quad 1 wins vs... Current Net Ranking 5 Purdue 25 Maryland 31 Michigan St. 32 Rutgers 33 Iowa 36 Illinois 46 Northwestern That's a possible 3 Quad 1 wins, no? Yes, but when do you think they're sitting down to make their selections? You think they're dissecting an entire season, for 350+ teams in the hour after the BTT ends or do you think it's more likely they're doing that data analysis now through Thursday/Friday? Historically, we've seen they aren't factoring in the conference tournaments very much. Almost every year there are complaints that whatever team got hot (it was us last year) didn't get the bump everyone thought they would in their seeding or didn't even get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Yes, but when do you think they're sitting down to make their selections? You think they're dissecting an entire season, for 350+ teams in the hour after the BTT ends or do you think it's more likely they're doing that data analysis now through Thursday/Friday? Historically, we've seen they aren't factoring in the conference tournaments very much. Almost every year there are complaints that whatever team got hot (it was us last year) didn't get the bump everyone thought they would in their seeding or didn't even get in. I was simply going by the fact of how you tout Quad 1 wins, particularly whether the Illinois game in Bloomington ever becomes Quad 1, as a deciding factor in our seeding... Isn't the opportunity to pick up MORE quad 1 wins important in that process? Edited March 2, 2023 by IUFLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Regular season games, yes. Conference tournament historically has not really moved the needle. Frankly, unless they move tournament finals or selection announcements that is what we want as a Big Ten team, because we'd be getting the short end of the stick as one of the only conferences that wraps up on Sunday (and we are RIGHT before selection announcements). The best thing for our NCAA seeding is 1) beat Michigan and 2) Rutgers, Michigan State, and Illinois finding their way into the top 30 in NET prior to like Thursday next week. This is when I think conference tourney's help..... Perfect example, last year with IU. I thought we played well enough and won just enough games (including needed wins in the BTT) to get us in the big dance. I was definitely disappointed that all the hard work we did late, including a few quad 1 wins. Yes we got in, but I thought our resume' was good enough get in without a play-in game.... Edited March 2, 2023 by Artesian_86 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 Just now, btownqb said: That wasn't directed at you, but it's not bottom tier in regards to Indiana this season, just like last year..... win the BTT you're a 3 seed. Without the run we had last year... we aren't in. It barely moved the needle for us last year dude. Yes, we got in, but we had two Quad 1 wins and it moved us from First 4 out to Last Team in. They are making they mind up 98% of the way prior to next weekend, the data looking as good as possible before then is what matters most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 Just now, IUFLA said: I was simply going by the fact of how you tout Quad 1 wins, particularly whether the Illinois game in Bloomington ever becomes Quad 1, as a deciding factor in our seeding... Isn't the opportunity to pick up MORE quad 1 wins important in that process? And I've explained like three times now, they're making up their mind for seeding prior to picking up the wins you're pushing for. Let's say the bracket is 95% done sometime on March 10th, us winning a game that night, a game the next day, and a game Sunday isn't going to change much. Should it? Yeah, probably, but we just don't see that as a reality. I'm not arguing with you guys that I think those games SHOULD, I'm saying they don't matter rather we like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 Just now, KoB2011 said: It barely moved the needle for us last year dude. Yes, we got in, but we had two Quad 1 wins and it moved us from First 4 out to Last Team in. They are making they mind up 98% of the way prior to next weekend, the data looking as good as possible before then is what matters most. the bold is speculation... and that's how poor our overall record and resume was last season. Maybe 98%? Maybe more like 90% and those wins we could be getting in the BTT will probably be the difference between a 3 seed and 4 seed. Depending on other results, as well. 22-11 isn't going to cut it, though. It's just not enough... for a 3 seed, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: And I've explained like three times now, they're making up their mind for seeding prior to picking up the wins you're pushing for. Let's say the bracket is 95% done sometime on March 10th, us winning a game that night, a game the next day, and a game Sunday isn't going to change much. Should it? Yeah, probably, but we just don't see that as a reality. I'm not arguing with you guys that I think those games SHOULD, I'm saying they don't matter rather we like it or not. I'm just not sure that if we add 3 Quad 1 wins in the BTT the selection process is so rigid it wouldn't "move the needle" as you say... Edited March 2, 2023 by IUFLA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 @btownqb no matter where I go in this city there are at least two Head Shops I pass by. Want me to stop and pick up some of what @KoB2011 is smoking? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, btownqb said: the bold is speculation... and that's how poor our overall record and resume was last season. Maybe 98%? Maybe more like 90% and those wins we could be getting in the BTT will probably be the difference between a 3 seed and 4 seed. Depending on other results, as well. 22-11 isn't going to cut it, though. It's just not enough... for a 3 seed, that is. Why won't it cut it? Please, for the love of anything holy, don't say just because it won't. Give me a real, thoughtful reason. We were the 13 overall (Top 4 seed) when the committee released that two weeks ago. We had 8 losses then, which was more than the teams around us. In the time since, we've picked up a win against Purdue and a win against Illinois (so could be two Quad 1 wins). What has happened with the teams around us that we are just so screwed and getting jumped because of that? I can look at the teams ahead of us and say why we very well may have jumped a team like Iowa State or Kansas State in that time. And then you factor in that if X shows ANYTHING they can factor in that injury (and they already can factor in Race's injury, and probably are factoring it in which is why they weren't concerned about our overall record before). Yeah man, I think a 3 seed is very much in play for us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I'm just not sure that if we add 3 Quad 1 wins in the BTT the selection process is so rigid it wouldn't "move the needle" as you say... It would move the needle depending on when they do it the selection, but the easiest way for us to pick up those 3 Quad.1 wins between now and them deciding where Indiana is going is MSU, Rutgers, and Illinois jumping into the Top 30. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, Drroogh said: @btownqb no matter where I go in this city there are at least two Head Shops I pass by. Want me to stop and pick up some of what @KoB2011 is smoking? Please do, the committee is smoking what I am too: https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/top-16-committee-ranking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 Would like to have beaten Kansas, Arizona and have both wins over Iowa 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Why won't it cut it? Please, for the love of anything holy, don't say just because it won't. Give me a real, thoughtful reason. We were the 13 overall (Top 4 seed) when the committee released that two weeks ago. We had 8 losses then, which was more than the teams around us. In the time since, we've picked up a win against Purdue and a win against Illinois (so could be two Quad 1 wins). What has happened with the teams around us that we are just so screwed and getting jumped because of that? I can look at the teams ahead of us and say why we very well may have jumped a team like Iowa State or Kansas State in that time. And then you factor in that if X shows ANYTHING they can factor in that injury (and they already can factor in Race's injury, and probably are factoring it in which is why they weren't concerned about our overall record before). Yeah man, I think a 3 seed is very much in play for us. I agree with a run in the tourney. Not at 22-11, though. Not once can I remember that weak of record being a 3 seed... especially not in an a non-covid ridden year.. (2020-21) WVU was 19-10 in LOADED B12... Winning our next 4 > ILL being Q1... in terms of an NCAA 3 seed. Edited March 2, 2023 by btownqb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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