KoB2011 Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 52 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said: In terms of wiretaps, emails, etc. I think the FBI only has documents dating back to the last three years. While I don't feel good about it, I think the only way that Archie could get caught in anything that happened at Zona is if the FBI got access to everything Sean Miller has been doing the past 7+ years, or if they offered Sean a nice plea deal to give out info on people who worked on his staff during his time there. Otherwise, I don't think the FBI could target Archie without having any hard evidence to lead to a separate investigation. Those documents they would obtain would be through illegal measures and wouldn't hold up in court. I think when all is said and done, we'll all realize that one way or another, every D1 program is giving kids benefits to woo someone to their program. Look at how many players & programs are being exposed by A SINGLE AGENT. Imagine if the FBI had access to email & phone calls regarding the recruitments of the all Top 100 players over the last ten years. It's one thing to roll over on your former staff, it's another to do it on your brother. I am sure amongst coaches many have a feeling of this being a bunch of BS regardless of guilt because this is the system that was in place; can't see two reasonably close brothers throwing each other under the bus for something they may not actually think is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 6 hours ago, Mac said: I don't know what the "error in language" is in this contract, but a mistake in a contract is only a defense when both parties are mistaken about something material. It's not a defense for one party to say that the contact didn't end up saying what they thought it was supposed to say. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistake_(contract_law) I’m not sure what you’re implying. Yes, of course a mutual mistake is required. I’ve been involved a case of that type, so a Wikipedia entry does not really help me. Mutual mistake does not mean both sides have to agree now that it was wrong. That’s absurd. You can’t sit there and benefit from a clause that was not understood to be agreed upon by both sides. I haven’t studied the case. But it sounds egregious enough that it could be shown that (i) neither side expected the clause to be agreed upon by (ii) both sides. Miller can’t sneak it in and say that’s what he wanted and now deny mutual mistake Ah, if the world were so easy. You could run around making a living out of sneaky clauses in contracts and taking a windfall as if we were in a banana republic. I’d like an attorney’s chances to go int Arizona state court on behalf of the University of Arizona on this any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierdave Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: It's one thing to roll over on your former staff, it's another to do it on your brother. I am sure amongst coaches many have a feeling of this being a bunch of BS regardless of guilt because this is the system that was in place; can't see two reasonably close brothers throwing each other under the bus for something they may not actually think is wrong. Definitely not suggesting that Sean would rat on anyone, let alone his brother. Was suggesting that it seems like a whole lot would have to happen in order for the FBI to have info on any activities Archie had when he was at Zona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said: Definitely not suggesting that Sean would rat on anyone, let alone his brother. Was suggesting that it seems like a whole lot would have to happen in order for the FBI to have info on any activities Archie had when he was at Zona. Got it, I totally agree. I think it seems very unlikely Archie gets caught up in this in any way. Worst case scenario for us at IU, IMO, is that we would have to vacate some wins or something if Chuck or Kenny did anything nefarious while here. All it takes is one time of going behind Crean's back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 2 hours ago, IUwins0708 said: I think Sean Miller is the smallest of the bigger name coaches that will be in trouble. I think they started with him because of that. I’m waiting for Cal, K, Izzo, Self, to say how disgusted they are only to be in hot water weeks later. I’d be shocked if any more comes out for a while though. Either right after the season is over or right before next season is when there will be some turmoil if I had to guess. Keep hearing chatter about of Tuesday after Selection Sunday. PSA...don't do your brackets early this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnRon Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 I can't see Sean bringing his little brother in on cheating. Anyone who is not a sociopath would want to protect their little brother from their bad decisions. Now if he was Calipari's bro, or apparently Izzo's bro, I'd be worried right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted February 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 "Statement from Boston attorney Paul Kelly, who is conducting Arizona’s internal investigation of FBI matter… " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted February 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 Mark Schlabach on Twitter: "Outside counsel Paul Kelly said law firms working for Arizona don't have access to FBI wiretaps & haven't been told what's in them. "Those items are subject to a court-imposed protective order, and only the charged defendants have access to those materials," Kelly told ESPN." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 26, 2018 Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 I am curious what Arizona's logic is in suspending Miller. They don't think there is enough smoke to sit Ayton, which could actually cost them penalties in the way of vacated games (or worse) but they do think there is enough smoke to sit Miller? What Miller did is either already enough to cost them or it isn't, him coaching at this point isn't going to bring more penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted February 26, 2018 Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 18 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I am curious what Arizona's logic is in suspending Miller. They don't think there is enough smoke to sit Ayton, which could actually cost them penalties in the way of vacated games (or worse) but they do think there is enough smoke to sit Miller? What Miller did is either already enough to cost them or it isn't, him coaching at this point isn't going to bring more penalties. He's gone. I'm sure they're just finalizing the terms and hoping they can find away out of paying him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted February 26, 2018 Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 The Twitter responses from Arizona fans are hilarious...talking about having your heads in the sand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 26, 2018 Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: He's gone. I'm sure they're just finalizing the terms and hoping they can find away out of paying him. Was there a reason you quoted me? It had nothing to do with what I said.... They've suspended him and he's likely coached his last game. My comment was about the logic of doing that but not doing it to Ayton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Article discussing potential coaches if (when) Sean gets fired: http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/hansen-s-sunday-notebook-if-sean-miller-goes-these-coaches/collection_a0a84420-19c2-11e8-a5f7-db5e65041813.html#2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy1987 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 5 hours ago, FKIM01 said: Article discussing potential coaches if (when) Sean gets fired: http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/hansen-s-sunday-notebook-if-sean-miller-goes-these-coaches/collection_a0a84420-19c2-11e8-a5f7-db5e65041813.html#2 Lol. Incarnate Word's coach is on the list. Had to laugh. Go Hoosiers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierBGH Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 https://247sports.com/Article/Sources-Conflicting-information-in-ESPNs-report-involving-Arizona-star-DeAndre-Ayton-coach-Sean-Miller-115594868 That is an interesting turn if true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slojoe Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 On 02/25/2018 at 9:44 PM, KoB2011 said: Was there a reason you quoted me? It had nothing to do with what I said.... They've suspended him and he's likely coached his last game. My comment was about the logic of doing that but not doing it to Ayton. Yes, I agree with your point. Perhaps they don't have enough evidence to get rid of Ayton even after doing their due diligence. The information on Sean Miller that I read was only that he wanted to be involved with the payment, but I don't remember anything about saying the payment was made. Maybe the Ayton's are denying that their was any payment, and Arizona is unlikely to find anyone who is going to talk to them about the payment with the criminal charges now filed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverrat Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Anyone else curious how many other people may have been wire tapped? I am not saying this with any ties to iu but I am really curious how many other people they had taps on and what information they may have. They could potentially have several coaches/programs holding a smoking gun and just haven't released that information yet. Also I read that ESPN may have an issue with some sloppy journalism when it comes to Miller and the recordings. I wish these media outlets were held accountable when they release information without fully vetting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Riverrat said: Anyone else curious how many other people may have been wire tapped? I am not saying this with any ties to iu but I am really curious how many other people they had taps on and what information they may have. They could potentially have several coaches/programs holding a smoking gun and just haven't released that information yet. Also I read that ESPN may have an issue with some sloppy journalism when it comes to Miller and the recordings. I wish these media outlets were held accountable when they release information without fully vetting it. I cant find the number of tapped calls they have but it was a huge number. So yes i'm sure many coaches and players are tapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted February 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, hoosierBGH said: https://247sports.com/Article/Sources-Conflicting-information-in-ESPNs-report-involving-Arizona-star-DeAndre-Ayton-coach-Sean-Miller-115594868 That is an interesting turn if true. That article would have a lot more credibility with me, if the source claiming inconsistencies in the time line wasn't the lawyer hired by AZ. I think the rubber will hit the road , when or if AZ follows through on their threat to sue ESPN. So far, when challenged about the time line.... all ESPN has done is double down on their story. Remember when, the father of a recruit said he was going to sue Dan Dakich for what Dakich reported on his radio show... a few years back? Dak said.... "bring it on." And of course, no law suit against him ever materialized. I view this threat by AZ to sue ESPN, much the same way. Bring it on ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 8 hours ago, FKIM01 said: Article discussing potential coaches if (when) Sean gets fired: http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/hansen-s-sunday-notebook-if-sean-miller-goes-these-coaches/collection_a0a84420-19c2-11e8-a5f7-db5e65041813.html#2 Interesting list...........and Luke Walton does intrigue me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierBGH Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 16 minutes ago, milehiiu said: That article would have a lot more credibility with me, if the source claiming inconsistencies in the time line wasn't the lawyer hired by AZ. I think the rubber will hit the road , when or if AZ follows through on their threat to sue ESPN. So far, when challenged about the time line.... all ESPN has done is double down on their story. Remember when, the father of a recruit said he was going to sue Dan Dakich for what Dakich reported on his radio show... a few years back? Dak said.... "bring it on." And of course, no law suit against him ever materialized. I view this threat by AZ to sue ESPN, much the same way. Bring it on ! AZ's lawyer may indeed be the source behind the counter claim and it may or may not be accurate but I don't have a whole lot of faith in ESPN either. ESPN has already made two erroneous reports on this matter that were later retracted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slojoe Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 On 02/25/2018 at 9:17 PM, KoB2011 said: I am curious what Arizona's logic is in suspending Miller. They don't think there is enough smoke to sit Ayton, which could actually cost them penalties in the way of vacated games (or worse) but they do think there is enough smoke to sit Miller? What Miller did is either already enough to cost them or it isn't, him coaching at this point isn't going to bring more penalties. Arizona may have evidence on Sean or Sean may have made admissions to them which they don't have with Ayton. The article indicates that the evidence that the FBI gathered is not currently available to the general public. So Arizona wouldn't have that evidence. The issue for Arizona is did they due their due diligence. If the evidence Ayden wasn't eligible is unavailable to them, then their conclusion may be wrong but they still did they best they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuckerkorn Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, hoosierBGH said: AZ's lawyer may indeed be the source behind the counter claim and it may or may not be accurate but I don't have a whole lot of faith in ESPN either. ESPN has already made two erroneous reports on this matter that were later retracted. Agree. That is one reason why I object to the thread title about "IU officially implicated mentioned in FBI probe" - it's all second and third hand info being reported by a less than perfect source. I'm not discounting that the bit about Chuck Martin and the agent could be (likely is) true about what was proposed, but so far it is not concrete information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, slojoe said: Arizona may have evidence on Sean or Sean may have made admissions to them which they don't have with Ayton. The article indicates that the evidence that the FBI gathered is not currently available to the general public. So Arizona wouldn't have that evidence. The issue for Arizona is did they due their due diligence. If the evidence Ayden wasn't eligible is unavailable to them, then their conclusion may be wrong but they still did they best they could. That's fair and entirely possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, hoosierBGH said: AZ's lawyer may indeed be the source behind the counter claim and it may or may not be accurate but I don't have a whole lot of faith in ESPN either. ESPN has already made two erroneous reports on this matter that were later retracted. ESPN makes erroneous reports frequently on scandals. Unfortunately, they're the biggest voice and even if they admit mistakes that never is heard as loud as the original error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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