Marian Post Game Thread

[KoB2011]

It’s very early and we have a lot of new faces, but when is the last time we had this much talent on the roster?

When is the last time we had three tough as nails guards that could do a little bit of everything?

When is the last time we had this much size and length?

Things have to come together and roles have to be defined, but aside from the starters play in the first half in the UIndy game I think there is a lot to be optimistic about with this squad. 

[BGleas]

12 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

It rarely does, but I didn't expect the stat line I saw on these two based on the in-game commentary.  I'm with Steub...it felt like some of our members were looking for small stuff to complain about.  Considering this is the second exhibition game with two comfortable wins, I'd hate for our fanbase to have to watch a team effort like Louisville, St. Johns, or even Purdue.

Heard and understood! I didn't see what was said in the game thread, so not sure on that. 

I think both Gunn and Banks both have a ton of potential. 

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, Hoosier987 said:

Long ways to go...I think Banks has further to go. Lets not sugar coat this (not you specifically) but the progression of Banks and Gunn are imperative for this team. I for one, am counting on at least 1 to make a significant sophmore leap...however, forgive me if I'm a little unsure of both. We've seen marginal sophmore jumps from several players in the past whom are now at different programs. Right now, I trust freshman Cupps more than these two to make the right play. Lets see what happens but I will be rooting tremendously for both to have an outstanding year.

Agree, especially on Gunn because he has the potential to bring some things we don't have. 

I'm a Banks fan and love the size and length he can add. 

With Gunn, he can bring something not many, if any, on this team can. Gunn can't get basically any shot he wants and time he wants. IU needs that and if we can get it, the ceiling goes up. 

We don't really have that anywhere else. But, it doesn't matter if he can't make shots. He just misses so many shots. 

[Kdug]

A few thoughts after both of the exhibition games:

• I can see why Ware was highly rated out of high school. He has great touch for a 7 footer and I think other bigs will struggle to guard him when he pulls them away from the basket. IMO the biggest thing he needs to work on is being more physical. Feels like he was pushed around a bit in both games. If he can be more physical, his potential is through the roof.
• Like Ware, I can see why Mgbako was highly rated as well. Through 2 games he looks like the complete package. He's been able to score in a lot of different ways, has rebounded well, and seems to have picked up the defensive scheme well - which is tough for a lot of freshmen. The only weakness I've seen so far is he had a little trouble keeping smaller quicker guards in front of him. He seems like a smart player, so I think he'll learn to utilize his size and length to get better in that area.
• I'm interested to see what the 3 point shooting looks like this year, but the last game was very promising. If Malik and Ware can continue knocking down 3's at a good rate, other teams won't be able to sag off anyone on the perimeter. IMO we don't need to shoot a ton of threes to be effective on offense, but we had the 10th lowest 3 point rate last year, which needs to go up. If we just shoot 4-5 more threes per game than last year, we'd be slightly below average in 3 point rate instead of one of the lowest in D1. Through 2 games it looks like we might be able to get there by having a lot of guys averaging a few attempts per game instead of relying on 1 or 2 guys shooting 6+ per game.
• XJ, Galloway, and Cupps have looked great on defense. All of those guys should get plenty of minutes, and if they stay healthy our perimeter defense should be much improved vs last year. We struggled last year guarding some of the quicker guards in the Big Ten like Buie, Perkins, and Young. I think XJ in particular makes a big difference against those types of guys.
• This team has the potential to be really good on both sides of the ball if things click. I'm excited to see how they develop and how they look against better competition.

[FKIM01]

As someone who's watched the Calipari hype train for years, I can't help but think if this roster had UK on their jerseys, they'd be top-5 preseason.  Ridiculous, I know, but how many times have we seen a highly-rated UK team drift down in the rankings and then flame out at tournament time?  Cal gets a lot of undeserved benefit of the doubt when restocking a new roster with lots of questions.  IU does not.  It's that simple.

[kyhoosier29]

5 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

As someone who's watched the Calipari hype train for years, I can't help but think if this roster had UK on their jerseys, they'd be top-5 preseason.  Ridiculous, I know, but how many times have we seen a highly-rated UK team drift down in the rankings and then flame out at tournament time?  Cal gets a lot of undeserved benefit of the doubt when restocking a new roster with lots of questions.  IU does not.  It's that simple.

Cal consistently brings in multiple 5 stars annually, which is why they are always so high pre-season. I think most around college basketball would disagree we have the same level of talent, potential. However, you’d think they would have learned by now that he can’t coach them. Give Woody that roster and Cal can’t compete. 

[FKIM01]

19 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Cal consistently brings in multiple 5 stars annually, which is why they are always so high pre-season. I think most around college basketball would disagree we have the same level of talent, potential. However, you’d think they would have learned by now that he can’t coach them. Give Woody that roster and Cal can’t compete. 

Two of the starting five absolutely have as much talent.  Reneau is very close.  The other two make up for the talent gap with experience.  I don't think the quality of the starting five is that much different.  I was speaking more to the unknowns in both starting fives at the beginning of the season and how voters just assume that UK will be a final four contender, which is a crapshoot given their history.

...but yeah...Calipari is mostly a great assembler of talent.  I think it's fair to question his ability to coach and develop given the multiple flameouts he's coached.

[Kdug]

I thought we struggled in the first half guarding the three. I'm bored so I decide to look at each Marian made three in the first half. From what I saw, the made threes were a combination of good shot making by Marian, or a mistake by a freshman/sophmore on IU. To me it's promising that the starters didn't really give up many good looks, and they'll likely get more minutes in the real games. Also, I'd expect the young players to get better throughout the year, and make fewer mistakes as the year goes on. Here's a summary of each three:

1. Good defense, tough shot over Galloway, fading towards sideline
2. Solid defense, tough shot over Malik.
3. Cupps caught ball watching, his guy gets around him for an offensive rebound leading to an open 3.
4. Good play by Marian, Gunn gets caught up in a screen, leads to an open look. Not necessarily an easy shot, Marian player had to take a step towards the sideline to create space.
5. Banks unnecessarily over-helps, leads to open three.
6. Great initial d by Banks leads to a tough shot and missed three. Long rebound leads to a tip out and Marian offensive rebound. Miscommunication by Gunn and Cupps leads to open 3 off the rebound.
7. Walker gets beat by half step on a drive, Cupps initially plays good help defense and recovers to his guy, but bites on a pump fake leading to an open three off the dribble.
8. Moving screen knocks XJ down, Walker sags off his guy to cut off passing lane to XJ's man, Walker's guys rises up and knocks down three.
9. #5 on Marian simply shoots over Mgbako. Mgbako probably needed to be half a step closer.

[FKIM01]

5 minutes ago, Kdug said:

Banks unnecessarily over-helps, leads to open three.

I don't know if it was the same play or even Banks, but I noticed this on a made 3 in the 2nd half.  Way too much over-helping on the ball led to an open 3.

Overall, pretty good effort for an exhibition, but yeah...I noticed that one in the highlights as well.

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, Kdug said:

I'm interested to see what the 3 point shooting looks like this year, but the last game was very promising. If Malik and Ware can continue knocking down 3's at a good rate, other teams won't be able to sag off anyone on the perimeter

Agree 100%...They both had consistent form, and looked confident shooting them. Keep working on them in practice and I think both can top 35%. 

We'll be a really dangerous team if that happens...

 

[Kdug]

20 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I don't know if it was the same play or even Banks, but I noticed this on a made 3 in the 2nd half.  Way too much over-helping on the ball led to an open 3.

Overall, pretty good effort for an exhibition, but yeah...I noticed that one in the highlights as well.

One of the made 3s in the second half at around the 11:30 mark was due to Banks over-helping again. He didn't get much playing time last year and it was his first game of this year, so hopefully he gets better on defense with experience. I think he has the potential to be a good player for us off the bench if he can clean some of that up.

[kyhoosier29]

18 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Two of the starting five absolutely have as much talent.  Reneau is very close.  The other two make up for the talent gap with experience.  I don't think the quality of the starting five is that much different.  I was speaking more to the unknowns in both starting fives at the beginning of the season and how voters just assume that UK will be a final four contender, which is a crapshoot given their history.

...but yeah...Calipari is mostly a great assembler of talent.  I think it's fair to question his ability to coach and develop given the multiple flameouts he's coached.

I don’t know if we have the same level of talent/potential that UK does, but Cal assembles classes that are ranked 1st or 2nd every single year. That appearance and laziness from voters is why they are so highly ranked pre-season every year. 

[BGleas]

Really nice defensive play by CJ Gunn here. This is one that doesn't show up in any stat sheet. 

 

[BGleas]

More praise for CJ Gunn defensively and then an example of our over-helping (been an issue the last couple of years) which results in an open 3.

Looking forward to paying closer attention to Gunn on the defensive end Tuesday after watching these clips. 

 

[Seeking6]

41 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Really nice defensive play by CJ Gunn here. This is one that doesn't show up in any stat sheet. 

 

Just my two cents but I think CJ got the message that if you want to see the court under Woodson playing good defense is a must. Hope he continues to improve because I like him a lot.

[go_iu_bb]

56 minutes ago, BGleas said:

More praise for CJ Gunn defensively and then an example of our over-helping (been an issue the last couple of years) which results in an open 3.

Looking forward to paying closer attention to Gunn on the defensive end Tuesday after watching these clips. 

 

Is Ant Wright the Anthony Wright who played at Michigan? Does he break down plays by all the B1G teams like this?

[5 championships]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

More praise for CJ Gunn defensively and then an example of our over-helping (been an issue the last couple of years) which results in an open 3.

Looking forward to paying closer attention to Gunn on the defensive end Tuesday after watching these clips. 

 

The over helping is my biggest complaint under Woodson! Drives me nuts. Otherwise he’s pretty good. 

[BGleas]

10 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

Is Ant Wright the Anthony Wright who played at Michigan? Does he break down plays by all the B1G teams like this?

Yup, that's him. Yeah, he does breakdowns of all of the Big Ten, but I think it skews to the more prominent programs. 

He's done a lot of IU lately. 

[BGleas]

5 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

The over helping is my biggest complaint under Woodson! Drives me nuts. Otherwise he’s pretty good. 

Yeah, it's weird because it's often seems just unnecessary. 

[Seeking6]

11 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

Is Ant Wright the Anthony Wright who played at Michigan? Does he break down plays by all the B1G teams like this?

Yep....really good follow but I will say he seems to show more IU stuff compared to other Big 10 programs.

[DWB]

11 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Yep....really good follow but I will say he seems to show more IU stuff compared to other Big 10 programs.

Could it be because we're coached better ?!!

[go_iu_bb]

34 minutes ago, DWB said:

Could it be because we're coached better ?!!

Probably gets more engagement.