NBA Thread

[BGleas]

13 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Rather kept them and made the run this year because having multiple second round picks doe snot help out at all.  Like I said after the top 5 or 10 picks it is a crap shoot in the NBA draft.

There was zero chance the Pacers were making a run once Vic went down. You're wrong on the draft picks, stock piling picks is one of the best ways to improve your team. Picks are very tradeable assets and outside of getting lucky in the lottery (which is easier with the new rules), the best chance for a team like Indiana to get impact guys around Vic is through trades. 

Beyond that, the following are all players drafted outside the lottery in recent years...

Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley, Hassan Whiteside (2nd round), Kawhi Leonard, Tobias Harris, Kenneth Faried, Reggie Jackson, Jimmy Butler, Isiah Thomas (2nd round), Chandler Parsons (2nd round), Jae Crowder (2nd round), Draymond Green (2nd round), Khris Middleton (2nd round), Giannis, Rudy Gobert, Jusuf Nurkic, Gary Harris, Rodney Hood, Jerami Grant (2nd round), Nikola Jokic (2nd round), Kelly Oubre, Terry Rozier, Bobby Portis, Kevon Looney, Josh Richardon (2nd round), Pat Conaughton (2nd round), Caris Levert, Pascal Siakam, Dejounte Murray, Malcom Brogdon (2nd round), John Collins, OG, Kyle Kuzma, Derrick White, Josh Hart, Thomas Bryant (2nd round), Monte Morris (2nd round).

There are tons of guys that end up being rotation players or better on really good teams. 

[NotIThatLives]

11 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Where we disagree is that I don't think a trade even with Thad in it would produce much of anything.  I rather make trades like the one where we got Thad and that was to give up #20 in the draft to get him..  For teams like the Pacers to every be a contender they have be able to get a top 3 pick by sucking for a few years like Philly did. Trading the players you mentioned would never get you a top 3 pick so all you are doing is trading a descent player for another one but younger.

Draft picks are tradimg chips for moving up in drafts or enhancing your bargaining power to package with other trades.  Thad is at the end of his peak.  Wasn't it Red Auerbach that said trade em before value goes down?  Too late now.  We don't even own any of those rights.  

Maybe this equations makes more sense.  Nothing < something.  Pacers have nothing.  

[NotIThatLives]

7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

There was zero chance the Pacers were making a run once Vic went down. You're wrong on the draft picks, stock piling picks is one of the best ways to improve your team. Picks are very tradeable assets and outside of getting lucky in the lottery (which is easier with the new rules), the best chance for a team like Indiana to get impact guys around Vic is through trades. 

Beyond that, the following are all players drafted outside the lottery in recent years...

Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley, Hassan Whiteside (2nd round), Kawhi Leonard, Tobias Harris, Kenneth Faried, Reggie Jackson, Jimmy Butler, Isiah Thomas (2nd round), Chandler Parsons (2nd round), Jae Crowder (2nd round), Draymond Green (2nd round), Khris Middleton (2nd round), Giannis, Rudy Gobert, Jusuf Nurkic, Gary Harris, Rodney Hood, Jerami Grant (2nd round), Nikola Jokic (2nd round), Kelly Oubre, Terry Rozier, Bobby Portis, Kevon Looney, Josh Richardon (2nd round), Pat Conaughton (2nd round), Caris Levert, Pascal Siakam, Dejounte Murray, Malcom Brogdon (2nd round), John Collins, OG, Kyle Kuzma, Derrick White, Josh Hart, Thomas Bryant (2nd round), Monte Morris (2nd round).

There are tons of guys that end up being rotation players or better on really good teams. 

Exactly.  Nothing more needs to be said.  It's ok to have your opinion changed and just admit it when it is slightly misinformed.  Ive done it many times.  It goes like this.  "Ok, that makes sense, build for the future."

[IU Scott]

12 minutes ago, BGleas said:

There was zero chance the Pacers were making a run once Vic went down. You're wrong on the draft picks, stock piling picks is one of the best ways to improve your team. Picks are very tradeable assets and outside of getting lucky in the lottery (which is easier with the new rules), the best chance for a team like Indiana to get impact guys around Vic is through trades. 

Beyond that, the following are all players drafted outside the lottery in recent years...

Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley, Hassan Whiteside (2nd round), Kawhi Leonard, Tobias Harris, Kenneth Faried, Reggie Jackson, Jimmy Butler, Isiah Thomas (2nd round), Chandler Parsons (2nd round), Jae Crowder (2nd round), Draymond Green (2nd round), Khris Middleton (2nd round), Giannis, Rudy Gobert, Jusuf Nurkic, Gary Harris, Rodney Hood, Jerami Grant (2nd round), Nikola Jokic (2nd round), Kelly Oubre, Terry Rozier, Bobby Portis, Kevon Looney, Josh Richardon (2nd round), Pat Conaughton (2nd round), Caris Levert, Pascal Siakam, Dejounte Murray, Malcom Brogdon (2nd round), John Collins, OG, Kyle Kuzma, Derrick White, Josh Hart, Thomas Bryant (2nd round), Monte Morris (2nd round).

There are tons of guys that end up being rotation players or better on really good teams. 

I would say if I have time I could put out a list of a lot of players who mounted to nothing in the back part of the first round and second rounds as well.  Like I said the draft is a crap shoot and if you don't have a top 10 or even top 5 pick you will have to get lucky that a player will develop into a great player.  To me you can't build a championship team by picking in the 20's every year and don't see why teams would trade out of the top 10 to get more low picks

[KDB]

[FW_Hoosier]

40 minutes ago, KDB said:

Why would they?  Anthony Davis for Darius Garland?  Yeah right.  They should trade him to the Knicks and become the New Orleans Blue Devils.

[Madison22]

19 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Why would they?  Anthony Davis for Darius Garland?  Yeah right.

I heard Darius Garland wants to use the NBA as a stepping stone to Deadpool's Super Duper NBA.

[KDB]

20 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Why would they?  Anthony Davis for Darius Garland?  Yeah right.  They should trade him to the Knicks and become the New Orleans Blue Devils.

In my opinion, if they want to, the Lakers can make the best offer for AD. 

No matter what, the Pelicans just simply aren't gonna make a deal with the Lakers. AD will most likely end up in the East.

LA Times reported during the season that one of the Lakers' offers featured Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram, Ivica Zubac and a first-round pick.

[KDB]

Highest I have seen Romeo projected in a while.

[BGleas]

45 minutes ago, KDB said:

In my opinion, if they want to, the Lakers can make the best offer for AD. 

No matter what, the Pelicans just simply aren't gonna make a deal with the Lakers. AD will most likely end up in the East.

LA Times reported during the season that one of the Lakers' offers featured Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram, Ivica Zubac and a first-round pick.

I still think the Celtics have the best offer, but what they lost last night was the ability to negotiate from any position of power. They have to go all-in if they want a shot. The Lakers and Knicks definitely closed the gap last night, meaning the Celtics can most likely no longer play a game where they say try and only send one of Brown/Tatum. They’d now need to start with both. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, KDB said:

In my opinion, if they want to, the Lakers can make the best offer for AD. 

No matter what, the Pelicans just simply aren't gonna make a deal with the Lakers. AD will most likely end up in the East.

LA Times reported during the season that one of the Lakers' offers featured Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram, Ivica Zubac and a first-round pick.

How can they top Boston?

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, KDB said:

Highest I have seen Romeo projected in a while.

I really, really don’t get the zeal for Garland who barely played, lost a full season, and didn’t do much when he did play. 

[KDB]

36 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

How can they top Boston?

First, I think the Lakers have better young talent to deal than the Knicks or Celtics.

BI, Kuz, Lonzo, Hart > Tatum, Brown, Rozier > Knox, DSJ, Mitchell Robinson, Trier.

With it not looking likely that Kyrie resigns, I'm not sure the Celtics would be willing to give up both Tatum and Brown for what would most likely be one year of AD anyways.

[IU Scott]

11 hours ago, KDB said:

In my opinion, if they want to, the Lakers can make the best offer for AD. 

No matter what, the Pelicans just simply aren't gonna make a deal with the Lakers. AD will most likely end up in the East.

LA Times reported during the season that one of the Lakers' offers featured Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram, Ivica Zubac and a first-round pick.

I actually think Boston could give the best package of players for AD

[BGleas]

9 hours ago, KDB said:

First, I think the Lakers have better young talent to deal than the Knicks or Celtics.

BI, Kuz, Lonzo, Hart > Tatum, Brown, Rozier > Knox, DSJ, Mitchell Robinson, Trier.

With it not looking likely that Kyrie resigns, I'm not sure the Celtics would be willing to give up both Tatum and Brown for what would most likely be one year of AD anyways.

Disagree on ranking of better young talent, and you’re leaving Marcus Smart out who could be in a potential deal. You also have Ingram coming off a blood clotting issue, all the noise that comes with Ball and Hart coming off a down year and a knee issue. 

The Celtics also still have the best collection of picks, unless David Griffin falls in love with RJ Barrett and simply just wants that Knicks pick. The Kyrie thing is definitely an interesting wrinkle. 

Will be really interesting to see how it goes down for both the Lakers and Celtics this offseason. Ainge kind of needs to decide if he’s in win-now mode or going all-in on Tatum/Brown and the upcoming picks they have. They’ve hedged for two years, but this year showed the problems with that. 

For the Lakers, can they convince a top flight free agent to join the circus, and similar to the Celtics are they sticking with young guys or trading them to go all-in on vets for LeBron? Will any of the Leonard, Kyrie, Klay, etc. guys want to play there?

 

[Hoosierhoopster]

9 hours ago, KDB said:

First, I think the Lakers have better young talent to deal than the Knicks or Celtics.

BI, Kuz, Lonzo, Hart > Tatum, Brown, Rozier > Knox, DSJ, Mitchell Robinson, Trier.

With it not looking likely that Kyrie resigns, I'm not sure the Celtics would be willing to give up both Tatum and Brown for what would most likely be one year of AD anyways.

Tatum and Brown are better. Kus is the best the Lakers have to offer. Lonzo is at best a question mark. Lakers couldn’t win anything without LeBron, failed with him, while Tatum and Brown shined as key players in Boston’s run to the EC finals last year. This year Kyrie screwed it all up.

teams would take Tatum first 

[BGleas]

5 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Tatum and Brown are better. Kus is the best the Lakers have to offer. Lonzo is at best a question mark. Lakers couldn’t win anything without LeBron, failed with him, while Tatum and Brown shined as key players in Boston’s run to the EC finals last year. This year Kyrie screwed it all up.

teams would take Tatum first 

This. Basketball is about quality, not quantity, and Tatum is the best chip on the table (at least right now, depending on who else enters the trade scenario) and Brown isn’t far behind. 

I watch the Celtics all the time, Tatum is legit. Irving and some of the other stuff in the background really negatively impacted Tatum taking a ‘leap’ this year. 

[NotIThatLives]

With Rozier being a restricted free agent,  does that mean he could only be included in sign and trades?

[KDB]

46 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Tatum and Brown are better. Kus is the best the Lakers have to offer. Lonzo is at best a question mark. Lakers couldn’t win anything without LeBron, failed with him, while Tatum and Brown shined as key players in Boston’s run to the EC finals last year. This year Kyrie screwed it all up.

teams would take Tatum first 

We can agree to disagree.

Although I wouldn't, I do agree teams would take Tatum first, but I personally don't think he and Brown are better than BI and Kuz. 

Curious to see where AD ends up though. Gonna be an exciting offseason this year, no doubt. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

54 minutes ago, BGleas said:

 

Will be really interesting to see how it goes down for both the Lakers and Celtics this offseason. Ainge kind of needs to decide if he’s in win-now mode or going all-in on Tatum/Brown and the upcoming picks they have. They’ve hedged for two years, but this year showed the problems with that. 

 

An interesting dilemma for Boston for sure. The win-now approach resulted in a real down year with Kyrie. AD doesn't want to go to Boston. Meanwhile Tatum and Brown, and Smart, are really good players who play great together and were the core, along with Horford, of an EC finals team and LeBron is gone. I'm not a Boston fan like you, but if I were I think I'd favor growing that team from within rather than going for now with a Kyrie, or an AD. 

Rozier's public comments, meanwhile, sure make it sound like he's gone. He was really turned off in the way he was played this year and while I think it was Smart who downplayed the fallout being related to Kyrie, Rozier sure didn't. Definitely interested to see what Boston (and the Lakers) does over the summer, just as a fan of the NBA.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 minute ago, KDB said:

We can agree to disagree.

Although I wouldn't, I do agree teams would take Tatum first, but I personally don't think he and Brown are better than BI and Kuz. 

Curious to see where AD ends up though. Gonna be an exciting offseason this year, no doubt. 

Definitely another wild, interesting summer coming -- a good thing at least to keep us interested!

[KDB]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

You also have Ingram coming off a blood clotting issue

Signs are pointing the right direction here. Should be able to continue his career without recurrence, thankfully. 

He was really getting comfortable before he got hurt. 21ppg, 6rpg, 3apg in the month of February.. Basically automatic from mid-range, better shot-selection.

The one guy I would really hate to see go if it were to happen via trade.

[rico]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Definitely another wild, interesting summer coming -- a good thing at least to keep us interested!

And to keep us talking!

[IU Scott]

21 minutes ago, KDB said:

We can agree to disagree.

Although I wouldn't, I do agree teams would take Tatum first, but I personally don't think he and Brown are better than BI and Kuz. 

Curious to see where AD ends up though. Gonna be an exciting offseason this year, no doubt. 

Why do you think Kuzman and Ingram is better than Brown and Tatum because nothing I have seen would put them even close to being the same.

[BGleas]

7 minutes ago, KDB said:

Signs are pointing the right direction here. Should be able to continue his career without recurrence, thankfully. 

He was really getting comfortable before he got hurt. 21ppg, 6rpg, 3apg in the month of February.. Basically automatic from mid-range, better shot-selection.

The one guy I would really hate to see go if it were to happen via trade.

Hopefully he returns healthy, never want to see a player have his career derailed because of a health issue. As far as on the court, he's definitely a skilled player, though I'm not sure the rest of the league is as high on him as a leading guy or a guy you want to trust your franchise with. 

Basically between the Lakers and Celtics, the key guys are Tatum/Brown and Ingram/Kuzma. I think the Celtics guys are more proven as team guys that can help you win and are better 3pt shooters in a league where you need to be able to shoot. I think Ingram probably has the highest ceiling of all four guys, with Tatum close behind, but I also view Ingram as the biggest gamble among the four players. 

It then comes down to draft picks and contracts at that point. While getting the #4 picks was obviously a huge leap for the Lakers, it also hurt them that they got the #4 pick in a 3 player draft. The Celtics also have in their favor that the Pelicans would prefer to send Davis East and also really don't want to help LA.