NBA Thread

[dgambill]

5 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

The Spurs are the team on which GS’s ball movement is based. They moved the ball better than anyone. Saying they would’ve rebounded from the tail whipping Kawhi was putting on them is pure conjecture. We’ll never know 

Just like it was conjecture to think Spurs could do what no other team has done since KD has arrived in GS...the evidence is on my side. If you want to hold on to your belief SA would have won that series go ahead I can’t change your mind but all that injury did was perhaps speed up the process of GS moving on. Difference between GS and everyone else is they can lose the best player in the league and still win series...nobody else could say the same.

[Hoosierhoopster]

3 hours ago, dgambill said:

Just like it was conjecture to think Spurs could do what no other team has done since KD has arrived in GS...the evidence is on my side. If you want to hold on to your belief SA would have won that series go ahead I can’t change your mind but all that injury did was perhaps speed up the process of GS moving on. Difference between GS and everyone else is they can lose the best player in the league and still win series...nobody else could say the same.

GS was already built and winning before Durant, of course. They went after Durant after losing to LeBron, they wanted that extra star to beat LeBron.

But ironically they play better without Durant (imo). And when Curry misses games but Durant plays their record is much worse than when Curry plays and Durant doesn’t. I think Curry is their best player — best for that team, not individually.

all that said, right we’ll never know either way. Wish we did and GS / Pachula didn’t resort to dirty play to undercut Kawhi 

[PoHoosier]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

GS was already built and winning before Durant, of course. They went after Durant after losing to LeBron, they wanted that extra star to beat LeBron.

But ironically they play better without Durant (imo). And when Curry misses games but Durant plays their record is much worse than when Curry plays and Durant doesn’t. I think Curry is their best player — best for that team, not individually.

all that said, right we’ll never know either way. Wish we did and GS / Pachula didn’t resort to dirty play to undercut Kawhi 

Adding to that, there was an article out there that any combination of the GS lineup without Steph was worse than ANY lineup with him.  Impressive stuff.  They even had how important he was to the team detailing the 'hockey assist'.  Incredible team player.

[dgambill]

12 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

GS was already built and winning before Durant, of course. They went after Durant after losing to LeBron, they wanted that extra star to beat LeBron.

But ironically they play better without Durant (imo). And when Curry misses games but Durant plays their record is much worse than when Curry plays and Durant doesn’t. I think Curry is their best player — best for that team, not individually.

all that said, right we’ll never know either way. Wish we did and GS / Pachula didn’t resort to dirty play to undercut Kawhi 

You act like he did it on purpose....how many times did GS foul the Rockets by walking under their 3 pt shooters in the last series? Were they trying to hurt Harden? You think they are a dirty team? It was an accident by a clumsy big trying to close out on a 3pt shooter. They definitely play differently without Durant but we aren’t taking third year with Durant after they’ve gotten board and complacent. We are talking when they were extremely motivated to get revenge on the Cavs and Durant to win his first championship. They were on a mission. I’ll agree to disagree about the Spurs beating them...I respect your opinion but I don’t see any team that year beating the Warriors in a 7 game series.

Edited May 26, 2019 by dgambill

[NotIThatLives]

22 minutes ago, dgambill said:

You act like he did it on purpose....how many times did GS foul the Rockets by walking under their 3 pt shooters in the last series? Were they trying to hurt Harden? You think they are a dirty team? 

Game one was basically borderline dirty.  Players all over the NBA were commenting publicly.   Notice after getting called out they quit guarding harden like that and the conversation went away.   Whatever you want to call it call it.  Dirty?  Stupid?  Accidental?  

[dgambill]

56 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Game one was basically borderline dirty.  Players all over the NBA were commenting publicly.   Notice after getting called out they quit guarding harden like that and the conversation went away.   Whatever you want to call it call it.  Dirty?  Stupid?  Accidental?  

I think they stopped doing it because the refs started calling it a foul....but I don’t think it was dirty...it’s a hard close out...most guard are agile enough to not get underneath a shooter...however a more clumsy center who has a history of hard fouls I can see why they just say he is dirty..but I think he is just careless and alouf...again I’m not trying to change minds just my opinion. This should be an interesting series. I’m not sure Toronto has enough fire power but if guys like Van Fleet keep shooting this hot you never know. I feel like they will let Kawhi get his (much like Harden) and try to shut down the rest. I hoped KD would come back and we settle the Kawhi/KD thing but that doesn’t appear to be the case.

[Hoosierhoopster]

10 hours ago, dgambill said:

You act like he did it on purpose....how many times did GS foul the Rockets by walking under their 3 pt shooters in the last series? Were they trying to hurt Harden? You think they are a dirty team? It was an accident by a clumsy big trying to close out on a 3pt shooter. They definitely play differently without Durant but we aren’t taking third year with Durant after they’ve gotten board and complacent. We are talking when they were extremely motivated to get revenge on the Cavs and Durant to win his first championship. They were on a mission. I’ll agree to disagree about the Spurs beating them...I respect your opinion but I don’t see any team that year beating the Warriors in a 7 game series.

I don’t mean to offend you, but you are the only person on Earth who thinks that blatantly dirty flagrant foul (for which it was called) wasn’t dirty. It’s a basic rule, you can’t get under the players space when he shoots and  Pachula did that, blatantly. It wasn’t clumsiness, that’s what he does. It’s why basically every player not playing for GS called him out. I guess you’re a GS fan. Yes, it was blatantly dirty, and he’s a punk dirty player. I’m not a Spurs fan, or a GS hater (tired of GS and especially KD, but I don’t hate them).

i have no idea who would’ve won that GS - Spurs series, but it was a matchup problem for GS with Kawhi, like every team they are susceptible to having a matchup problem and no one on GS was stopping Kawhi. That Spurs team was probably better than this Toronto team, but i’m Interested to see who on GS now will be able to defend Kawhi, he’s clearly the MVP of the playoffs so far. 

With or without KD GS is still the best team in the League. I’m not saying otherwise. I do think they’re better without him — but against Kawhi and the Raptors depth, they probably need him now. Still, they’re getting Boogie back, and just as that kind of size made things difficult for Toronto against Philly that is also a matchup problem for Toronto. 

I think GS in 6 - but not 5, not with this version of Kawhi, and I wouldn’t be shocked to see it go 7. We’ll see, should be good Basketball 

[dgambill]

7 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don’t mean to offend you, but you are the only person on Earth who thinks that blatantly dirty flagrant foul (for which it was called) wasn’t dirty. It’s a basic rule, you can’t get under the players space when he shoots and  Pachula did that, blatantly. It wasn’t clumsiness, that’s what he does. It’s why basically every player not playing for GS called him out. I guess you’re a GS fan. Yes, it was blatantly dirty, and he’s a punk dirty player. I’m not a Spurs fan, or a GS hater (tired of GS and especially KD, but I don’t hate them).

i have no idea who would’ve won that GS - Spurs series, but it was a matchup problem for GS with Kawhi, like every team they are susceptible to having a matchup problem and no one on GS was stopping Kawhi. That Spurs team was probably better than this Toronto team, but i’m Interested to see who on GS now will be able to defend Kawhi, he’s clearly the MVP of the playoffs so far. 

With or without KD GS is still the best team in the League. I’m not saying otherwise. I do think they’re better without him — but against Kawhi and the Raptors depth, they probably need him now. Still, they’re getting Boogie back, and just as that kind of size made things difficult for Toronto against Philly that is also a matchup problem for Toronto. 

I think GS in 6 - but not 5, not with this version of Kawhi, and I wouldn’t be shocked to see it go 7. We’ll see, should be good Basketball 

No I’m a Pacer fan...I don’t hate anyone and I respect and admire GS movement and how they play selflessly. Curry and especially Thompson giving up the spotlight to let a guy like KD come in and be the man. All I think is that in no way did Someone purposely try to hurt someone. To think you know the intent and heart of someone I think is taking it a little far. Sure people think it’s dirty because someone got hurt...but do I think a guy had foresight that closing out that hard was going to cause him to land on his foot and hurt him. No. Bad play...dumb play...reckless play..sure but and maybe this is just my personal definition of dirty I don’t think there was malicious intent nor premeditation...it wasn’t like he pushed a guy in the back on a layup or kicked a guy in the junk or the tripping etc like we have seen. But I get it. Big bruiser that just rebounds and sets screens hurts a guy on a foul so he is the bad guy. I get it. But nothing from the play suggested to me he was trying to hurt him and he hasn’t said anything like he was purposely trying to do it. Anyways nothing to do with these finals and indeed Kawhi is playing the best ball of his career...should be an awesome matchup. Hey...could be worse..could be Cavs GS again. I think this is the last run for the Warriors...it gets hard to stay hungry and motivated and if KD leaves they won’t have money to replace him because they are over the cap (way over when they re-sign Klay. With Andre getting older too I just don’t see them signing another player to fill that 3rd scorer option because Klay and Steph can’t keep playing minutes like they currently are and I doubt this version of Green stays.

[IU Scott]

I am sorry but anyone who really thinks all of those plays are really dirty does not know what dirty means.  I don't think it is dirty to get into someone space when they are shooting but this is what a dirty play looks like

 

 

[BobSaccamanno]

Honestly, at this point, I’m prepared to say that Kawhi is the best two way player in the league, and maybe by a considerable margin.  If there’s a “ludicrous” speed in the movies, maybe he’s playing at a ludicrous level.  He led the way obviously, but Toronto hasn’t been known for clutch play in years past.  Leonard is doing most of it, but he’s brought up some of his teammates too, as the great ones do.

I am not remotely a believer in Toronto's backcourt, so I give a heavy edge to GS.  I don’t think Toronto can match up well at all.  They seem very happy to just be in the finals, which is a good accomplishment.  

Milwaukee is a good team but the history in the NBA tells you that you need to overcome obstacles before you move to the next level.  They have to get better.  Giannis may be able to hit some jumpers against Sacramento in January, but these playoffs show you it’s all about stepping up in small windows when it really matters.  At that point, he didn’t trust his jumper.  Milwaukee had a good year, though. Malcolm Brogdon could play for me any time.  Middleton showed good all around ability, etc.  

The great thing about the NBA playoffs, in seven game series, there’s no room for excuses.  By definition, the better team wins. 

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I am sorry but anyone who really thinks all of those plays are really dirty does not know what dirty means.  I don't think it is dirty to get into someone space when they are shooting but this is what a dirty play looks like

 

 

Indeed...Kevin even said he was trying to knock him down just didn’t realize he would send him head over heels. Then a couple games later I think James Worthy just shoved Cedric Maxwell from behind into the second row on his lay up attempt saying it was payback...and neither of those guys were thought with such hate as Pachula who over pursued on a close out with no intent. But yes this is my point. One was a freak accident and one was on purpose.

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Honestly, at this point, I’m prepared to say that Kawhi is the best two way player in the league, and maybe by a considerable margin.  If there’s a “ludicrous” speed in the movies, maybe he’s playing at a ludicrous level.  He led the way obviously, but Toronto hasn’t been known for clutch play in years past.  Leonard is doing most of it, but he’s brought up some of his teammates too, as the great ones do.

I am not remotely a believer in Toronto's backcourt, so I give a heavy edge to GS.  I don’t think Toronto can match up well at all.  They seem very happy to just be in the finals, which is a good accomplishment.  

Milwaukee is a good team but the history in the NBA tells you that you need to overcome obstacles before you move to the next level.  They have to get better.  Giannis may be able to hit some jumpers against Sacramento in January, but these playoffs show you it’s all about stepping up in small windows when it really matters.  At that point, he didn’t trust his jumper.  Milwaukee had a good year, though. Malcolm Brogdon could play for me any time.  Middleton showed good all around ability, etc.  

The great thing about the NBA playoffs, in seven game series, there’s no room for excuses.  By definition, the better team wins. 

I think Milwaukee falls back next year. Half of their team are free agents...they are going to want to get paid...and I doubt Milwaukee will spend to keep them all. Small market teams like the Pacers and Bucks just want to compete well enough to make playoffs and sell out...they don’t spend to win it all.

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, dgambill said:

Indeed...Kevin even said he was trying to knock him down just didn’t realize he would send him head over heels. Then a couple games later I think James Worthy just shoved Cedric Maxwell from behind into the second row on his lay up attempt saying it was payback...and neither of those guys were thought with such hate as Pachula who over pursued on a close out with no intent. But yes this is my point. One was a freak accident and one was on purpose.

When I played if a guy was going in for a layup and I couldn't get back to take a charge I would run underneath him once he started to go up for the layup.  I would never touch him but I would do it to get him looking at something besides the basket but some on here probably thinks that is dirty as well.  I just think today people are way to soft and thinks anything that that is  a little suspect is dirty.

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, dgambill said:

I think Milwaukee falls back next year. Half of their team are free agents...they are going to want to get paid...and I doubt Milwaukee will spend to keep them all. Small market teams like the Pacers and Bucks just want to compete well enough to make playoffs and sell out...they don’t spend to win it all.

Especially with the Pacers owner not willing to go over the luxury tax.

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

When I played if a guy was going in for a layup and I couldn't get back to take a charge I would run underneath him once he started to go up for the layup.  I would never touch him but I would do it to get him looking at something besides the basket but some on here probably thinks that is dirty as well.  I just think today people are way to soft and thinks anything that that is  a little suspect is dirty.

I wouldn’t say that is dirty...funny story..well not at the time... after HS I was playing pickup ball at the park and I caught a ball in the left corner with a wide open lane and went up and dunked it and a kid ran right underneath me and took my legs out and spun me and I landed on my arm and face. Busted me up good. He was just trying to scare me and thought I was just going i for a layup. I learned a lesson that day...always know who I am playing with. Uncoordinated non-skilled ball players I would never again put myself in a vulnerable position again. Only ever do that around people I trusted. Even then though I knew the kid didn’t mean it. Wasn’t dirty...but I always had to protect myself.

Edited May 27, 2019 by dgambill

[Hoosierhoopster]

6 hours ago, IU Scott said:

When I played if a guy was going in for a layup and I couldn't get back to take a charge I would run underneath him once he started to go up for the layup.  I would never touch him but I would do it to get him looking at something besides the basket but some on here probably thinks that is dirty as well.  I just think today people are way to soft and thinks anything that that is  a little suspect is dirty.

You’re right, I’m soft. Sometimes I start crying just thinking about how tough the guys were in the 70’s and 80’s. Oh they’re so scary. 

Lol dude, I played hockey, that stuff is weak, don’t tell me about soft. 

But dirty is dirty, and golly that dirty play caused Kawhi to miss a year. A year. Soft had nothing to do with this. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

11 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Honestly, at this point, I’m prepared to say that Kawhi is the best two way player in the league, and maybe by a considerable margin.  If there’s a “ludicrous” speed in the movies, maybe he’s playing at a ludicrous level.  He led the way obviously, but Toronto hasn’t been known for clutch play in years past.  Leonard is doing most of it, but he’s brought up some of his teammates too, as the great ones do.

I am not remotely a believer in Toronto's backcourt, so I give a heavy edge to GS.  I don’t think Toronto can match up well at all.  They seem very happy to just be in the finals, which is a good accomplishment.  

Milwaukee is a good team but the history in the NBA tells you that you need to overcome obstacles before you move to the next level.  They have to get better.  Giannis may be able to hit some jumpers against Sacramento in January, but these playoffs show you it’s all about stepping up in small windows when it really matters.  At that point, he didn’t trust his jumper.  Milwaukee had a good year, though. Malcolm Brogdon could play for me any time.  Middleton showed good all around ability, etc.  

The great thing about the NBA playoffs, in seven game series, there’s no room for excuses.  By definition, the better team wins. 

Nice post. And have to agree - I think Kawhi is now the best player in the game. LeBron’s turning 35 and he doesn’t get back on D anymore. Durant is right there, but I don’t think Durant could carry this Toronto team to the Finals. 

Amazing that some were writing Kawhi off after he dealt with his year long injury, the fallout with the Spurs over his and the team docs disagreement, etc. 

The guys I most appreciate and respect as players are the committed 2-way guys who take 2-way play to the highest level, Kawhi, PG, Vic, et al. OG has the makings of that kind of player. Durant, much as I just don’t like him, to his credit is now an excellent defender. 

And yeah, the better team usually wins the 7-game series. This year has had some good ones. That Portland - Denver series started slow and then rocketed. The Toronto- Bucks series was wild. I have a lot of respect for what the Bucks did. They’re close. Giannis develops a jumper and they are Finals bound. Will be interesting to see what happens with that team going forward 

[Hoosierhoopster]

11 hours ago, dgambill said:

No I’m a Pacer fan...I don’t hate anyone and I respect and admire GS movement and how they play selflessly. Curry and especially Thompson giving up the spotlight to let a guy like KD come in and be the man. All I think is that in no way did Someone purposely try to hurt someone. To think you know the intent and heart of someone I think is taking it a little far. Sure people think it’s dirty because someone got hurt...but do I think a guy had foresight that closing out that hard was going to cause him to land on his foot and hurt him. No. Bad play...dumb play...reckless play..sure but and maybe this is just my personal definition of dirty I don’t think there was malicious intent nor premeditation...it wasn’t like he pushed a guy in the back on a layup or kicked a guy in the junk or the tripping etc like we have seen. But I get it. Big bruiser that just rebounds and sets screens hurts a guy on a foul so he is the bad guy. I get it. But nothing from the play suggested to me he was trying to hurt him and he hasn’t said anything like he was purposely trying to do it. Anyways nothing to do with these finals and indeed Kawhi is playing the best ball of his career...should be an awesome matchup. Hey...could be worse..could be Cavs GS again. I think this is the last run for the Warriors...it gets hard to stay hungry and motivated and if KD leaves they won’t have money to replace him because they are over the cap (way over when they re-sign Klay. With Andre getting older too I just don’t see them signing another player to fill that 3rd scorer option because Klay and Steph can’t keep playing minutes like they currently are and I doubt this version of Green stays.

Cool. We can see things differently and both appreciate the game. And thank God it’s not the Cavs again. Toronto got the monkey off it’s back and Kawhi is playing on another world of good. I also think this is the current version of the Warriors’ last run, it’s a dynasty team - I don’t think they’re better than the Bulls-MJ dynasty teams but thst’s Just my opinion they’re certainly worthy of being considered better. Anyway, good conversation, peace out 

[5fouls]

21 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

You’re right, I’m soft. Sometimes I start crying just thinking about how tough the guys were in the 70’s and 80’s. Oh they’re so scary. 

Lol dude, I played hockey, that stuff is weak, don’t tell me about soft. 

But dirty is dirty, and golly that dirty play caused Kawhi to miss a year. A year. Soft had nothing to do with this. 

[dgambill]

Just a little FYI but Kawhi set out a year because of an injured quad that the Spurs thought he was healed from and he reinjured and then didn’t trust their medical staff about coming back and well it escalated from there. Not from a sprained ankle.

Curry has had great success against Toronto in the past...this will be interesting series. I know Toronto won both games in the regular season but that was well the regular season. The team that stays hot and hits 3s will win this series..can guys like FVF and Pascal and the others stay hot against GS? I think Kawhi will get his 30 but who will join him. Not sure they have enough fire power. Raptors do have HCA though so maybe put the Warriors in an unusual position down early in a series. We will see.

[IU Scott]

10 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

You’re right, I’m soft. Sometimes I start crying just thinking about how tough the guys were in the 70’s and 80’s. Oh they’re so scary. 

Lol dude, I played hockey, that stuff is weak, don’t tell me about soft. 

But dirty is dirty, and golly that dirty play caused Kawhi to miss a year. A year. Soft had nothing to do with this. 

Because he missed the year does not make it a dirty play

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Because he missed the year does not make it a dirty play

What made it dirty was, as it was called, an illegal run and slide under the space of the shooter that caused an injury, that is exactly what the rule is designed to prevent, and every single player in the NBA knows it. Za Za is a dirty player, period.

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

What made it dirty was, as it was called, an illegal run and slide under the space of the shooter that caused an injury, that is exactly what the rule is designed to prevent, and every single player in the NBA knows it. Za Za is a dirty player, period.

I guess your definition of dirty is way different than mine because to me that play is not a dirty play

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I guess your definition of dirty is way different than mine because to me that play is not a dirty play

Your definition is different than that of the rule book, every NBA player's definition not on GS, and refs, the coaches, and almost every other fan of the game. This isn't really a matter of opinion, it's a matter of the rules, which are there for this very reason. It's a dangerous play. The only thing that is up for debate is whether it was intentional. Most, including me, saw it as intentional. I was watching the game live. I've also watched Za Za's dirty game for years. I'm sure you haven't, you only follow the Pacers, but you're entitled to your opinion on watching replays. 

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Your definition is different than that of the rule book, every NBA player's definition not on GS, and refs, the coaches, and almost every other fan of the game. This isn't really a matter of opinion, it's a matter of the rules, which are there for this very reason. It's a dangerous play. The only thing that is up for debate is whether it was intentional. Most, including me, saw it as intentional. I was watching the game live. I've also watched Za Za's dirty game for years. I'm sure you haven't, you only follow the Pacers, but you're entitled to your opinion on watching replays. 

I watch other games besides the Pacers but just don't watch all the game because to me it is unwatchable for me to watch a whole NBA game.  I just don't agree with the rule and to me it is not dirty to get into someone space when shooting.  It might be illegal In the NBA game but there are a lot of rules in the NBA that I don't agree with and is not anywhere near what basketball rules were meant to be.