NBA Thread

[FW_Hoosier]

Edit: Hoax

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by FW_Hoosier

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

Woj bomb. 

 

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

Also...PG...not an all star. 

[FKIM01]

25 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Also...PG...not an all star. 

24 minutes and no Hoopster rebuttal? 

Did I understand right that this year, the reserves could some from either conference without concern for balance beyond the starters?

[NotIThatLives]

I'm guessing LeBron picks KD, if you are Steph Curry, who you picking and why?  

Davis, Greek Freak, Hardin, Kyrie?

[BGleas]

3 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

24 minutes and no Hoopster rebuttal? 

Did I understand right that this year, the reserves could some from either conference without concern for balance beyond the starters?

No. The players were selected the same as always. 12 East/12 West. Now the captains can select whoever they want, though the starters have to be selected before the reserves. But the 24 players are still 12/12 from each conference with the same position requirements as always. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by BGleas

[FKIM01]

Ah...faulty memory. I knew it had changed just off on the changes.

[Hoosierhoopster]

Oh come on guys. You know I said above, several times, that the irony of PG's trade was that, playing with Westbrook, he might not get selected, right? You guys aren't being petty, are you? Lol guys, I've been going out of my way to praise Vic and you guys get snarky? (And as I also said above, expected Vic to make the All Star reserves, totally deserved).

Pretty much everyone outside Pacers fans who didn't like PG recognize he was snubbed, but that's sort of besides the point. 

Let's see, Western Conf coaches, and Curry as captain, get to pick. Let's see, there are 4 GS players on the West "All Star" team -- they added Draymond, who hasn't done jack this season, and Klay, because, golly, they're on the Warriors. Think GS deserves 4 guys? Of course not.

PG is a current defensive MVP candidate, he's 5th in the League in 3-pointers made, 14th in 3-point percentage, 2nd in total steals (to Westbrook), 2nd in steals per game (by a hair, has been 1st all year), and so on. His points are down only because he's playing with Westbrook. I kind of like Westbrook's take, though -- http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22194310/russell-westbrook-baffled-oklahoma-city-thunder-teammate-paul-george-being-left-all-star-reserves

""Unbelievable. I think it's just outrageous, in my opinion," Westbrook said, demonstrably closing his eyes and shaking his head. "I don't know who else made the team but got four people from one team, you've got guys complaining about getting snubbed until they get in, you've got guys just talking about it all the time."

As this guy notes, if PG was in the East, he'd be playing in the All Star game:

Now in the Western Conference, George was not able to make the ASG for the third straight season. As expected now that he's playing with Russell Westbrook and Carmelo Anthony, he's not putting up quite the numbers he has in the past, but he's still having a very solid season. He's getting over 20 points a night, is 12th in the league in 3-point percentage (42.9), and has been a big part of the Thunder's stout defense. It is a bit humorous that Victor Oladipo made the ASG, while PG-13 did not, but if George was in the East, he'd be playing in this game. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-all-star-game-2018-paul-george-and-andre-drummond-headline-the-top-snubs/

Which is kind of obvious, right? 

Go Vic -- who has George to thank for his first All Star appearance.

[KoB2011]

5 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Oh come on guys. You know I said above, several times, that the irony of PG's trade was that, playing with Westbrook, he might not get selected, right? You guys aren't being petty, are you? Lol guys, I've been going out of my way to praise Vic and you guys get snarky? (And as I also said above, expected Vic to make the All Star reserves, totally deserved).

Pretty much everyone outside Pacers fans who didn't like PG recognize he was snubbed, but that's sort of besides the point. 

Let's see, Western Conf coaches, and Curry as captain, get to pick. Let's see, there are 4 GS players on the West "All Star" team -- they added Draymond, who hasn't done jack this season, and Klay, because, golly, they're on the Warriors. Think GS deserves 4 guys? Of course not.

PG is a current defensive MVP candidate, he's 5th in the League in 3-pointers made, 14th in 3-point percentage, 2nd in total steals (to Westbrook), 2nd in steals per game (by a hair, has been 1st all year), and so on. His points are down only because he's playing with Westbrook. I kind of like Westbrook's take, though -- http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22194310/russell-westbrook-baffled-oklahoma-city-thunder-teammate-paul-george-being-left-all-star-reserves

""Unbelievable. I think it's just outrageous, in my opinion," Westbrook said, demonstrably closing his eyes and shaking his head. "I don't know who else made the team but got four people from one team, you've got guys complaining about getting snubbed until they get in, you've got guys just talking about it all the time."

As this guy notes, if PG was in the East, he'd be playing in the All Star game:

Now in the Western Conference, George was not able to make the ASG for the third straight season. As expected now that he's playing with Russell Westbrook and Carmelo Anthony, he's not putting up quite the numbers he has in the past, but he's still having a very solid season. He's getting over 20 points a night, is 12th in the league in 3-point percentage (42.9), and has been a big part of the Thunder's stout defense. It is a bit humorous that Victor Oladipo made the ASG, while PG-13 did not, but if George was in the East, he'd be playing in this game. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-all-star-game-2018-paul-george-and-andre-drummond-headline-the-top-snubs/

Which is kind of obvious, right? 

Go Vic -- who has George to thank for his first All Star appearance.

For whatever it is worth, Tim Leggler talked about the ASG on Golic and Wingo and he doesn't share your thoughts. He thinks this is the most right they've ever been; would only argue maybe Dragic over Lowry in the East and in the West he thought they all were very deserving. He would've loved to add a roster spot, but not to add PG... To add Lou Williams. 

PG is a good player, a really good player, but he isn't the consensus elite player you act like. And he couldn't even make it in a year where Leonard was hurt. He's not even a top ten front court player at this point. 

[BGleas]

14 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Let's see, Western Conf coaches, and Curry as captain, get to pick. Let's see, there are 4 GS players on the West "All Star" team -- they added Draymond, who hasn't done jack this season, and Klay, because, golly, they're on the Warriors. Think GS deserves 4 guys? Of course not.

I'm pretty sure Steph Curry had no say in who the reserves are. He gets to pick his team as a captain among who was selected, but he had no say in who was selected for the All-Star Game.

[KoB2011]

Just now, BGleas said:

I'm pretty sure Steph Curry had no say in who the reserves are. He gets to pick his team as a captain among who was selected, but he had no say in who was selected for the All-Star Game.

This is also true. The irony of using Westbrook as proof of PG being a snub when he clearly is biased (and it's fair to question how well he actually understands what makes a good, winning basketball player) and knocking Steph that two Warriors (who are better than PG) made it, when Steph had noting to do with that, isn't lost on me. Hope it isn't lost on everyone else. 

[IU Scott]

16 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

24 minutes and no Hoopster rebuttal? 

Did I understand right that this year, the reserves could some from either conference without concern for balance beyond the starters?

No each conference players are picked like normal. What is difference is that two captains will pick each team and conference affiliation doesn't matter when picking their teams.

[Hoosierhoopster]

Right the reserves were selected by the head coaches so my comments on Curry were off, but the idea that Draymond (or Klay) is better than PG is just wack. Draymond is by no stretch of the imagination a lead guy (nor is Klay), he does what he does by playing with and behind Curry et al. He's not a franchise player, he's a 3rd to 4th option player, and again he hasn't done jack this season. I really, really don't get the continuing need to try to belittle PG and pointedly ignore what he does in some kind of self-congratulatory back slap instead of just enjoying what a great season Vic is having and how well that has worked out. 

I could quote the multitude of articles recognizing what PG is doing this season, or quote more stats, and that he was snubbed, but I guess all of that would just get ignored along with the fact that he's very much in the running for defensive MVP and having a stellar season all around. For the heck of it, here's one of many -- 

. Paul George

Oklahoma City might have one bright star, but George has been nothing short of brilliant, especially on defense. PG13 leads the NBA at 4.4 deflections per game and has racked up 93 steals on the season — tied with Russell Westbrook for another league-best. He’s also shooting threes at a high clip, playing off the ball when Westbrook is running the show, and running the offense himself at times, too. The rest of the All-Stars are lucky he didn’t make the game because they weren’t scoring much on him. https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/1/23/16924024/2018-nba-all-star-game-roster-snubs-paul-george-andre-drummound-lou-williams-chris-paul-ben-simmons

It's good to see Lillard finally get in -- if he wasn't picked this year he would've been the first player in NBA history to average 25 ppg I think it was 3 years in a row and not make it -- and he vocally complained about not getting picked, so the coaches picked him, lol. 

Glad Vic made it, knew he would, which, again, he really has PG to thank for, that's the real irony. He needed to get away from the Thunder and Westbrook and become the lead guard taking the most shots, on a team that fit with his game, and he found that, clearly, with the P's. Good for him.

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Right the reserves were selected by the head coaches so my comments on Curry were off, but the idea that Draymond (or Klay) is better than PG is just wack. Draymond is by no stretch of the imagination a lead guy (nor is Klay), he does what he does by playing with and behind Curry et al. He's not a franchise player, he's a 3rd to 4th option player, and again he hasn't done jack this season. I really, really don't get the continuing need to try to belittle PG and pointedly ignore what he does in some kind of self-congratulatory back slap instead of just enjoying what a great season Vic is having and how well that has worked out. 

I could quote the multitude of articles recognizing what PG is doing this season, or quote more stats, and that he was snubbed, but I guess all of that would just get ignored along with the fact that he's very much in the running for defensive MVP and having a stellar season all around. For the heck of it, here's one of many -- 

. Paul George

Oklahoma City might have one bright star, but George has been nothing short of brilliant, especially on defense. PG13 leads the NBA at 4.4 deflections per game and has racked up 93 steals on the season — tied with Russell Westbrook for another league-best. He’s also shooting threes at a high clip, playing off the ball when Westbrook is running the show, and running the offense himself at times, too. The rest of the All-Stars are lucky he didn’t make the game because they weren’t scoring much on him. https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/1/23/16924024/2018-nba-all-star-game-roster-snubs-paul-george-andre-drummound-lou-williams-chris-paul-ben-simmons

It's good to see Lillard finally get in -- if he wasn't picked this year he would've been the first player in NBA history to average 25 ppg I think it was 3 years in a row and not make it -- and he vocally complained about not getting picked, so the coaches picked him, lol. 

Glad Vic made it, knew he would, which, again, he really has PG to thank for, that's the real irony. He needed to get away from the Thunder and Westbrook and become the lead guard taking the most shots, on a team that fit with his game, and he found that, clearly, with the P's. Good for him.

Draymond has a DPOY, which you keep touting for PG. 

[KoB2011]

52 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Draymond has a DPOY, which you keep touting for PG. 

He also keeps saying someone isn't better because they aren't their teams leader but ignores that the Pacers worst seasons in recent years were when PG was the leader. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by KoB2011

[Hoosierhoopster]

2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

He also keeps saying someone isn't better because they aren't their teams leader but ignores that the Pacers worst seasons in recent years where when PG was the leader. 

KOB your hatred of PG is now well documented, my friend. You're just going to continue to ignore how productive he is on both sides of the ball, as you have continuously ignored how strong he is defensively, saying several times in this thread that he just wasn't the same player defensively after his injury. Come on man, he's one of the League's premier players on both sides of the ball. As a mod I'm going to back out of this conversation, because it isn't going anywhere other than nitpicking and I don't want to come across as annoyed. Enjoy Vic on the P's, that's turning out really nicely.

[Hoosierhoopster]

53 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Draymond has a DPOY, which you keep touting for PG. 

1. Irrelevant, we're talking about this year. Draymond has not had an all star year, this year, and he's never led a team, which is really obvious.

2. Ironic, as PG has been 1st in the NBA in defensive win shares (2012), Draymond has never been 1st, and PG is -- currently -- 4th overall in defensive rating, and Draymond isn't even ranked this year. Draymond hasn't done jack this year.

Leaving it here.

[BGleas]

Paul George is clearly better than Draymond Green. I'm not even a big PG fan, I didn't want the Celtics to trade for him (though contract had a lot to do with that), but if I was starting a team and had a choice between PG and Green to start my team I'm taking PG every time. 

I think Klay and PG is debateable. Klay is one of the more underrated stars in the league, even more so since Durant went to GS, but people forget that he was the 2nd best player on a team that won the title and the next year broke the record for most wins and lost the title in 7. Klay Thompson is a stud. 

[KoB2011]

29 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

KOB your hatred of PG is now well documented, my friend. You're just going to continue to ignore how productive he is on both sides of the ball, as you have continuously ignored how strong he is defensively, saying several times in this thread that he just wasn't the same player defensively after his injury. Come on man, he's one of the League's premier players on both sides of the ball. As a mod I'm going to back out of this conversation, because it isn't going anywhere other than nitpicking and I don't want to come across as annoyed. Enjoy Vic on the P's, that's turning out really nicely.

Here's the crazy thing, I don't hate him. I just don't think he is an elite player and a leader. I've shown many times I'm willing to change my mind when I'm presented new information; you get paid to make information fit your story. 

And he is playing great defense this year. Doesn't that prove he either want the same player from injury or had a terrible attitude? What's the other option for why he was only an average defender the past two years then got great on that end again?

Edited January 24, 2018 by KoB2011

[Hoosierhoopster]

3 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Here's the crazy thing, I don't hate him. I just don't think he is an elite player and a leader. I've shown many times I'm willing to change my mind when I'm presented new information; you get paid to make information fit your story. 

And he is playing great defense this year. Doesn't that prove he either want the same player from injury or had a terrible attitude? What's the other option for why he was only an average defender the past two years then got great on that end again?

I'd say that he was an above-average defender the past two years -- for that matter, he finished 7th overall in the League in defensive win shares in 2015-16. That's not an "average defender." He also finished 2015-16 9th in steals per game. But to your point, much like Kawhi, his overall defensive contribution went down as his lead role increased -- it's damn hard to be at the top of the NBA on both sides of the ball. So few fit that description. What we're seeing now is that, when PG is not relied upon to lead the team as the number one offensive option and to put up high scoring every night, he is able to lead the team, and the League, defensively. Again, go back over Kawhi's defensive and offensive production for the years when he was second or third offensively to Duncan and Parker, and then when he became the number one offensive option, you'll see a similar trajectory. (I'm not saying PG is better than Kawhi, to me, injury aside, Kawhi is a top 3 player.)

Here's the thing, there are so few guys in the NBA who are elite on both sides of the ball, and most recognize that PG is, along with a few, Kawhi, Butler, and LeBron's just in a class by himself. You can name a couple other guys, but not many.  This is what I loved about Vic as a Hoosier -- a monster two-way player. Same for OG. These are the kind of players I really like, and now Vic is playing himself into the discussion of being one of those top two-way guys in the NBA (I'm thrilled for it). PG may not be an elite "leader," that's certainly debatable, but in fairness and with lots of respect to you -- I have a lot of respect for you -- I don't think it's fair to say he's not elite. His production shows that he is, on both sides of the ball, and most NBA players recognize him as such. He's frankly killing it this year, he's just not regularly scoring 25-plus because he's playing next to Mr. dominate ball useage, and Carmelo. Thnk you'll also see, as he does every playoffs, he'll also be dominant in the playoffs. This Thunder team is built for the playoffs -- wasn't sure if they'd mesh, but they seem to have finally gotten there.

[KoB2011]

Sabonis named to the Rising Stars game. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

20 hours ago, BGleas said:

Paul George is clearly better than Draymond Green. I'm not even a big PG fan, I didn't want the Celtics to trade for him (though contract had a lot to do with that), but if I was starting a team and had a choice between PG and Green to start my team I'm taking PG every time. 

I think Klay and PG is debateable. Klay is one of the more underrated stars in the league, even more so since Durant went to GS, but people forget that he was the 2nd best player on a team that won the title and the next year broke the record for most wins and lost the title in 7. Klay Thompson is a stud. 

That is certainly fair Gleas. My thing with Klay is that he has never been the primary option, never a franchise player, never led his team -- he's always been second, or now third, to a League MVP -- Curry and now Durant. Could he be as productive, on both sides of the ball, if he didn't have those guys? I don't know, I don't think so (he's often inconsistent, one big game followed by duds), but I haven't seen it. With PG, we've seen him be the star and on both sides of the ball and with other strong players as well as with a weak cast. 

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

That is certainly fair Gleas. My thing with Klay is that he has never been the primary option, never a franchise player, never led his team -- he's always been second, or now third, to a League MVP -- Curry and now Durant. Could he be as productive, on both sides of the ball, if he didn't have those guys? I don't know, I don't think so (he's often inconsistent, one big game followed by duds), but I haven't seen it. With PG, we've seen him be the star and on both sides of the ball and with other strong players as well as with a weak cast. 

I don't think you are winning a title with PG or Klay as your best player. As #2 guys they are pretty comparable. As a #2 in GS Klay has won a title and the following year was the #2 on a team that has the best record in NBA history. PG is now playing next to an MVP in OKC, we'll see how successful that turns out. 

 

[slojoe]

Saw Pacers pound Suns last night.   Watched most of 3d quarter when Vic and Sabonis just went off on Suns and salted the game away for Pacers.

[Hoosierhoopster]

54 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don't think you are winning a title with PG or Klay as your best player. As #2 guys they are pretty comparable. As a #2 in GS Klay has won a title and the following year was the #2 on a team that has the best record in NBA history. PG is now playing next to an MVP in OKC, we'll see how successful that turns out. 

 

Fair debate there. Whether PG can be the primary player on a championship team is a question -- I think he could be, with the right players around him. He's flat out dominated in the playoffs, as the best player on the floor in various series (remember that Toronto series?). He's not LeBron, but then no one else is either. On the other hand, he may be that Pippin like player -- Pippin didn't and may not have been able to lead a team to a championship, but what a player he was. On Klay, again, he's only been a #2. He certainly helped GS win a title, but he didn't "win" it, he helped.