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Blind Coaching Resumes

Zlinedavid

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FKIM01

FKIM01

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42 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

You are a smart guy and I’ve enjoyed your posting for years, Dave. 

However, this particular paragraph is taking a cheap shot and I wouldn’t consider it civil. 

“That and all of this talk about "We should have hired this guy.  Should have hired that guy.  The administration is too cheap.  We should be better. Blah blah blah." is just ridiculous.  It doesn't even come off as whining.  It comes off as entitled, which is exponentially worse.”

It doesn’t sound like something personal you’d write.  It is a twisted representation of what was discussed yesterday and calling out people “entitled”is less than civil and hardly your best moment  

Regarding your list, you’ve cherry picked by and large, top, or at least well known, programs or coaches thereof.  As I said, I appreciate the effort since it’s a fun game.  But, Archie hasn’t proven he can develop along those lines.  I’d like to see the data on ten mediocre coaches/programs and I would suspect it would diminish any “Coach K improved, so Archie will too” narratives. 

The statements made were made long before yesterday and not just in this forum by a long stretch.  I see them on the Facebook group and I'm guessing I'd see worse if I ventured over to the rivals forum.  You probably won't like me any better than you liked ZLine in this regard.  I've used "entitled" to describe a significant element of the fanbase as well.  "I expect wins and I demand success" just sounds entitled to me when stated by members of the IU fanbase.  What do we do to deserve such success?  As far as I am concerned, the only folks entitled to demand success and expect wins are the ones putting in the effort...the players and the coaching staff.  The rest of us are just here for entertainment and it seems a little arrogant to expect/demand certain outcomes.  Being predictive and confident is one thing, but pitching a fit when things don't turn out he way you expect and demand is another.  I don't see that attitude so much here, but it is present and it's a bigger part of the fanbase than I used to think.  Facebook is absolutely infested with it and I expect Rivals is bad as well.  You ought to read some of the downright nasty stuff said about Romeo not playing the NIT games...you'd thing some fans were slave masters with their histrionic demands and insults.  If Romeo read Facebook and thought that was representative of the fanbase, no way would he spend another year bowing to their entitled demands.  I'm more than a little embarrassed at some of the IU "fans" I've seen online recently, to the point, I wonder if they aren't only masquerading as fans.  Just nasty.

...and as far as cherry picking, I think the list is very fair and representative of coaches mentioned by IU's fanbase often as good coaches and top candidates for job openings.  Donovan is the only one I saw missing.  I see little benefit in looking at lousy or mediocre coaches since I think the goal is to say it's too early to give up, rather than Archie is going to be the next coach K.  I think most would concede that a lousy or mediocre coach is likely to stay that way.  Studying success and failure of coaches identified as good candidates makes more sense.  I get that you want to see if mediocre coaches start out similarly to the coaches illustrated, but I'm more interested in studying the ones that went on to be very good.  At the same time, I guess if ZLine doesn't mind, you could pick some random power 5 coaches to see how they started out at a school.  I don't think that's the point he was trying to make.  That point is, it's too early to give up on Archie like a few have.  In that regard, I think he's made a compelling case.

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Zlinedavid

Zlinedavid

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Just now, FKIM01 said:

Well then, run the numbers!

Kruger: 12-16

Donovan: 13-17, 14-15 NIT, 22-9 Sweet 16

Situation and 1st two years, similar. 2nd appearance in the 2nd week in the tournament. Still only one tournament appearance in the first 3 years, average holds.

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Zlinedavid

Zlinedavid

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1 minute ago, rico said:

I like this "game"......here is an interesting one.

1.  22-15  Lost NIT Championship game

2.  20-10  NCAA 2nd round

3.  22-11  NCAA 2nd round

4.  24-10  NCAA Sweet Sixteen

Guesses?

Follows the same pattern? Previous coach's last year, first three of the next coach's?

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BobSaccamanno

BobSaccamanno

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8 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

The statements made were made long before yesterday and not just in this forum by a long stretch.  I see them on the Facebook group and I'm guessing I'd see worse if I ventured over to the rivals forum.  You probably won't like me any better than you liked ZLine in this regard.  I've used "entitled" to describe a significant element of the fanbase as well.  "I expect wins and I demand success" just sounds entitled to me when stated by members of the IU fanbase.  What do we do to deserve such success?  As far as I am concerned, the only folks entitled to demand success and expect wins are the ones putting in the effort...the players and the coaching staff.  The rest of us are just here for entertainment and it seems a little arrogant to expect/demand certain outcomes.  Being predictive and confident is one thing, but pitching a fit when things don't turn out he way you expect and demand is another.  I don't see that attitude so much here, but it is present and it's a bigger part of the fanbase than I used to think.  Facebook is absolutely infested with it and I expect Rivals is bad as well.  You ought to read some of the downright nasty stuff said about Romeo not playing the NIT games...you'd thing some fans were slave masters with their histrionic demands and insults.  If Romeo read Facebook and thought that was representative of the fanbase, no way would he spend another year bowing to their entitled demands.  I'm more than a little embarrassed at some of the IU "fans" I've seen online recently, to the point, I wonder if they aren't only masquerading as fans.  Just nasty.

...and as far as cherry picking, I think the list is very fair and representative of coaches mentioned by IU's fanbase often as good coaches and top candidates for job openings.  Donovan is the only one I saw missing.  I see little benefit in looking at lousy or mediocre coaches since I think the goal is to say it's too early to give up, rather than Archie is going to be the next coach K.  I think most would concede that a lousy or mediocre coach is likely to stay that way.  Studying success and failure of coaches identified as good candidates makes more sense.  I get that you want to see if mediocre coaches start out similarly to the coaches illustrated, but I'm more interested in studying the ones that went on to be very good.  At the same time, I guess if ZLine doesn't mind, you could pick some random power 5 coaches to see how they started out at a school.  I don't think that's the point he was trying to make.  That point is, it's too early to give up on Archie like a few have.  In that regard, I think he's made a compelling case.

That’s fine about the term being in reference to fake IU trolls on Twitter, but David used the language passive aggressively a day after Dave and I had a discussion, that stayed on point.  In our discussion, at no point did I say I don’t like Archie, that IU fans can demand wins, that I preferred Marshall (although I conceded he’s a better coach today), etc.  I did point out, based on two separate sources, that IU’s administration is unwilling to meet high contract demands of the Tony Bennett’s and Gregg Marshall’s to get them to IU.  It’s not a cheap thing so much as other priorities in the athletic department.  I pointed out some aspects of Archie’s job that were not great this year, but that it was a small sample size with extenuating circumstances and even that those points can improve and I hope they will.  I pointed out I liked Archie’s overall approach and hate to lose attitude.  I think his personality and demeanor are great but he sometimes doesn’t execute his job commensurate with his attitude. 

But pointing out the factual matter that IU has not been willing to pay up for a top coach, backed up by the facts, rankles people.  But to get upset about it and then call other posters “entitled” is an escalation and a massive stretch.  David is a good poster, smart guy, and probably the second most irreverent (no one beats 5fouls) poster we have in a good way.  

I think this topic has run its course.  We have all said our piece. There’s no hard feelings on my end and we can hopefully keep on moving to more constructive discussion.  

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Zlinedavid

Zlinedavid

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30 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

That’s fine about the term being in reference to fake IU trolls on Twitter, but David used the language passive aggressively a day after Dave and I had a discussion, that stayed on point.  In our discussion, at no point did I say I don’t like Archie, that IU fans can demand wins, that I preferred Marshall (although I conceded he’s a better coach today), etc.  I did point out, based on two separate sources, that IU’s administration is unwilling to meet high contract demands of the Tony Bennett’s and Gregg Marshall’s to get them to IU.  It’s not a cheap thing so much as other priorities in the athletic department.  I pointed out some aspects of Archie’s job that were not great this year, but that it was a small sample size with extenuating circumstances and even that those points can improve and I hope they will.  I pointed out I liked Archie’s overall approach and hate to lose attitude.  I think his personality and demeanor are great but he sometimes doesn’t execute his job commensurate with his attitude. 

But pointing out the factual matter that IU has not been willing to pay up for a top coach, backed up by the facts, rankles people.  But to get upset about it and then call other posters “entitled” is an escalation and a massive stretch.  David is a good poster, smart guy, and probably the second most irreverent (no one beats 5fouls) poster we have in a good way.  

I think this topic has run its course.  We have all said our piece. There’s no hard feelings on my end and we can hopefully keep on moving to more constructive discussion.  

A) I don't remember the conversation we had, so you werent even in my mind. However, if you did make such comments, my opinion still applies. They come off as entitled.

B) You and I must have vastly different definitions of "passive-aggressive". There's nothing that I've said that suggests I'm trying to avoid confrontation. In my prior post, I said, escalate away. I'll civilly argue my point until the cows come home, and welcome those who want to do so in opposition. That's the antithesis of "passive aggressive".

Now, let's discuss the following: "But pointing out the factual matter that IU has not been willing to pay out for a top coach..."

Who should we have hired? And keep in mind, there was no amount of money that would have brought Billy Donovan. There's a very, very good chance that there's no amount of money that would have brought Gregg Marshall. Money isn't the issue with Tony Bennett. Who do you want, and how much should we pay them in order for you to think "IU paid up for a top coach"?

 

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Zlinedavid

Zlinedavid

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1 minute ago, H00sier said:

I never said we were dominate like Duke or whatever, I did say Indiana needs to be in the NCAA tourney every year- and Coach Knight has us there more times then not. It is what it is , I’ve lived in Lexington since 93- it’s been pure hell. 

50% of my household income comes from the big blue death star. Keep the faith.

And you can remind them that we've taken 2 of the last 3 from them head to head. Sure, they've got plenty of arrows they can fire but it is an undisputable fact.

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Long Duk Dong

Long Duk Dong

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3 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

That’s fine about the term being in reference to fake IU trolls on Twitter, but David used the language passive aggressively a day after Dave and I had a discussion, that stayed on point.  In our discussion, at no point did I say I don’t like Archie, that IU fans can demand wins, that I preferred Marshall (although I conceded he’s a better coach today), etc.  I did point out, based on two separate sources, that IU’s administration is unwilling to meet high contract demands of the Tony Bennett’s and Gregg Marshall’s to get them to IU.  It’s not a cheap thing so much as other priorities in the athletic department.  I pointed out some aspects of Archie’s job that were not great this year, but that it was a small sample size with extenuating circumstances and even that those points can improve and I hope they will.  I pointed out I liked Archie’s overall approach and hate to lose attitude.  I think his personality and demeanor are great but he sometimes doesn’t execute his job commensurate with his attitude. 

But pointing out the factual matter that IU has not been willing to pay up for a top coach, backed up by the facts, rankles people.  But to get upset about it and then call other posters “entitled” is an escalation and a massive stretch.  David is a good poster, smart guy, and probably the second most irreverent (no one beats 5fouls) poster we have in a good way.  

I think this topic has run its course.  We have all said our piece. There’s no hard feelings on my end and we can hopefully keep on moving to more constructive discussion.  

Hey how about me? I'm a good poster. I told you guys about Crean way before anyone else was.

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