Steubenhoosier Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, IU878176 said: I should just let his go but I just read a few pre-season predictions from Sports Illustrated etc and all three mentioned that OSU vastly/greatly over performed in Holtmans first year and they picked them 9th or 10th for this past year. This does not mean Archie stinks but I’m just saying Holtman looks good....up to this point. I care more about IU basketball, BY FAR, than any other team or sport. In twenty years I sincerely hope that we talk about how great the Archie era has been, that IU plays in Miller Hall, that a couple of more banners are hanging and that I can still get it up. I will repeat something I posted earlier this week, not sure which thread. Comparing what CAM came into vs either Holtmann or Mack is apples to oranges, in my opinion. Both OSU and Louisville play essentially the same style of play as they did under their predecessor coaches. No big change in philosophy, pace of play, etc. CAM's system is not quite, but almost polar opposite to how Crean's teams played, how they were built to play, and the type of players needed to play it. We went to a run always, defense and valuing the ball is an afterthought, style of play to one requiring much more discipline on both ends of the floor. Some (maybe one ) bought into the changes and adapted immediately. Some are a work in process in adapting to the new system. There may be one or two that never will, and they may be gone as a result. I am not happy with the results this year, but understand that this transition takes time, buy-in from all the players, and a willingness for some to change. Frankly, above all else, could care less what other programs are or are not doing and think it most important to focus solely on how IU can get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoobieDoobie Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said: One other note, Matta wasn't fired/"encouraged" to resign because of performance. He resigned because of his back issues (which were probably having an impact on the team overall). It's not like he suddenly lost his ability to coach/recruit. Think Thad moved back to Indy. I saw him buying a case of beer at a liquor store at 56th and Illinois a couple months back. I could tell he was a regular by the way the cashier talked to him. It was 10am on Thursday- I think hes enjoying retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daily Hoosier Posted April 11, 2019 Report Share Posted April 11, 2019 After Bennett claimed a title, this thread seemed like a good one to bump. All credit to @Zlinedavid for the charts, with a couple tweaks on my end. His great work inspired this article. https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/archie-didnt-build-rome-in-a-day-and-neither-did-bennett-izzo-wright-or-beilein/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted April 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2019 A note to bloggers/journalists: this is a textbook definition of how to source user-created content. Mike didn't have to source anything. It's not like this is some revolutionary discovery. But he did. In fact, he contacted me over two weeks ago (translation: he didn't publish first and then ask permission). And guess what....it took me about 8.3 seconds to say "Go right ahead". Look, it's no secret. If you have a blog, we know it's your business. I personally have zero journalistic aspirations. I do occasionally do stuff like this if I'm bored at work, even to satisfy my own curiosity. If you think it fits what your audience wants to read, 99.99% chance I (and most likely others) will say yes. But make the effort to ask. Nice article BTW. Captured the gist perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Duk Dong Posted April 11, 2019 Report Share Posted April 11, 2019 2 hours ago, The Daily Hoosier said: After Bennett claimed a title, this thread seemed like a good one to bump. All credit to @Zlinedavid for the charts, with a couple tweaks on my end. His great work inspired this article. https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/archie-didnt-build-rome-in-a-day-and-neither-did-bennett-izzo-wright-or-beilein/ I actually think he needs 5, not 4 years to really establish his culture and prigram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 11, 2019 Report Share Posted April 11, 2019 And to play Devil's advocate and to just play... Coach A 22-13 NCAA 2nd Rd 12-16 19-14 NIT 2nd Rd 21-9 NCAA 1st Rd Coach B 18-12 NIT 2nd Rd 18-11 NIT 2nd Rd 24-7 NCAA SS 20-12 NCAA 1st Rd Coach C 17-7 17-8 NIT 1st Rd 22-6 NCAA FF 23-5 NCIT Champs Coach D 21-7 NCAA EE 20-8 NCAA EE 13-13 26-5 NCAA Runner-up Coach E 13-16 22-10 NCAA 2nd Rd 26-8 NCAA 2nd Rd 35-4 NCAA FF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted April 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2019 Coach C was actually 17-8 in his first year. Assuming you meant to include postseason wins/losses, since they're in the other years. And just for reference, Rico's appear to be a single coach, not the last year/1st 3 year format I used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblaz13 Posted April 11, 2019 Report Share Posted April 11, 2019 On 3/28/2019 at 6:20 PM, Zlinedavid said: I'm happy to escalate matters. I can hold a civil, back and forth debate for as long as both parties are interested, and walk away with no emotions involved. Escalate away. I've been alive for 2 of IU's national championships, you do the math on how old I am. As for talking about "outliers", I stated that these coaches weren't picked because of their records to serve as an example. Bennett, Barnes, Marshall, Wright and Williams were picked specifically because they had been mentioned as alternatives to Archie. Beilein was selected because he's been mentioned as a model for what people would like to see. Krystowiak was included only because it blew me away that he's currently in the same salary bracket as Archie. Miller, I selected because he's Archie's brother. Smart and Howland were included because they were big name coaches that I could think of off the top of my head that had recently changed/taken new positions, and I wanted to have 10 to fill out the "game". And I didn't cherry pick years out of careers. Each example is set up the same way: last year of the outgoing coach, first 3 years of the new coach. And the reason I went with that model....because Archie Miller will be entering his third season next year. Nothing more scientific than that. I didn't plan on this, but in 9 out of the 10 cases, the outgoing coach's record was somewhere between below average and pretty good. Johnson at VT was the only one in single digit wins, but I kept Willams in because of his recent success. Short of a team going through some type of scandal or sanctions (I didn't verify, but I don't recall any), the incoming coach was left with at least a halfway viable roster. Not stacked, not stripped, but somewhere in the middle. And this wasn't intended to forecast results beyond the new coach's 3 year period, or to gauge long-term success. I made no claims that because a coach's record was A within this period, it will lead to X or won't lead to Y. I called out counts of occurrences, I pointed out sequences, but didn't make any claims long or short term. Only that Archie Miller's record at Indiana is pretty comparable after two years to the same two-year stretch of the same coaches some are suggesting as replacements. If there are points that I have left out regarding the structure of this model, please, call me out on them. I'm not perfect. There may have things I unintentionally overlooked. Also, if you have comparable examples that show a totally opposite trend, please, post them. I don't know if there are or not. I didn't do a comprehensive search on all coaching changes. I picked 6 because conversation was happening specifically about them, one that I was amazed at the salary, Archie's brother, and 2 because they were big name coaching hires/changes that I happened to remember. If I'm totally out of the water and happened to pick the only 10 examples that would position this idea in this fashion, please, counterpoint me. IF you're from Bloomington/////then we probably grew up together....That would be funny.I used to lock down defend most of that age group in this town during the late high schools years .Just implying you would have likely been among That would also make us friends and ex teammates if you are one of the Daves I knew around here. Just curious since I knew all of the Davids who were any good (also with high bball IQ, which I take you as having) around B-town who fit in those possible birth years('77 to '81). Feel free to PM me on that if you prefer, but I am curious. This thread was a fun read completely from the outside looking in after the fact...The only thing I knew right away before reading on was that Izzo was not on this .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 11, 2019 Report Share Posted April 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said: Coach C was actually 17-8 in his first year. Assuming you meant to include postseason wins/losses, since they're in the other years. And just for reference, Rico's appear to be a single coach, not the last year/1st 3 year format I used. Nope.....last year/1st 3 years just like you. Not saying I couldn't have made a mistake. What was Lou Watson's record his last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted April 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2019 5 hours ago, jblaz13 said: IF you're from Bloomington/////then we probably grew up together....That would be funny.I used to lock down defend most of that age group in this town during the late high schools years .Just implying you would have likely been among That would also make us friends and ex teammates if you are one of the Daves I knew around here. Just curious since I knew all of the Davids who were any good (also with high bball IQ, which I take you as having) around B-town who fit in those possible birth years('77 to '81). Feel free to PM me on that if you prefer, but I am curious. This thread was a fun read completely from the outside looking in after the fact...The only thing I knew right away before reading on was that Izzo was not on this .. Nope, Not from Btown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblaz13 Posted April 11, 2019 Report Share Posted April 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Zlinedavid said: Nope, Not from Btown. Right on and I may have asked you before now that I'm awake enough to recall.Apologies if so and thanks for the reply still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted April 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2019 On 4/11/2019 at 3:29 AM, rico said: And to play Devil's advocate and to just play... Coach A 22-13 NCAA 2nd Rd 12-16 19-14 NIT 2nd Rd 21-9 NCAA 1st Rd Coach B 18-12 NIT 2nd Rd 18-11 NIT 2nd Rd 24-7 NCAA SS 20-12 NCAA 1st Rd Coach C 17-7 17-8 NIT 1st Rd 22-6 NCAA FF 23-5 NCIT Champs Coach D 21-7 NCAA EE 20-8 NCAA EE 13-13 26-5 NCAA Runner-up Coach E 13-16 22-10 NCAA 2nd Rd 26-8 NCAA 2nd Rd 35-4 NCAA FF C - Knight D - Joe B. Hall E - Larry Brown at Kansas As for coaches A&B, true or false: Did either one ever appear in an NCAA championship game not listed here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 12, 2019 Report Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said: C - Knight D - Joe B. Hall E - Larry Brown at Kansas As for coaches A&B, true or false: Did either one ever appear in an NCAA championship game not listed here? C, D, and E are correct. Yes, one of A & B did appear in a championship game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted April 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2019 27 minutes ago, rico said: C, D, and E are correct. Yes, one of A & B did appear in a championship game. But not both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 12, 2019 Report Share Posted April 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said: But not both? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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